Infantry only mode ranked or....?

[Elbryan]

Re: Infantry only mode ranked or....?

Yes .. it will be Ranked.
There will be a lot of servers (EA too) Ranked Infantry Only.
It's just a "mini-mod" inside the original game so .. why shouldn't we play on it? ^^

[KristianSax]

Re: Infantry only mode ranked or....?

Let's just hope that EA has the brains not to run too many 64 player IO maps. Infantry is the best on small, and maybe also medium maps, but big maps become a real nuisance even if you have prolonged sprinting. During Beta testing I used to put my chap running and pressed a message button (j, k or l) and picked my nose while he did the hard running work.
Many of those who complain about EA ruining the game with the IO should try it on 16 player maps and they'll be converted (unless of course they end up playing against some uber clan on the other side and don't stand a chance).

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Infantry only mode ranked or....?

Let's just hope that EA has the brains not to run too many 64 player IO maps. Infantry is the best on small, and maybe also medium maps, but big maps become a real nuisance even if you have prolonged sprinting. During Beta testing I used to put my chap running and pressed a message button (j, k or l) and picked my nose while he did the hard running work.
Many of those who complain about EA ruining the game with the IO should try it on 16 player maps and they'll be converted (unless of course they end up playing against some uber clan on the other side and don't stand a chance).

Ommikust :)

Ive wandered to some 16 player servers with 64 player limit, and it has been a total blast. Absolutely amazing gameplay. However, thing is, its way too crowded. Youre constantly under fire from each and every angle at all times. Its a friggin nightmare. Its hectic, its fast, it makes the adrenaline rush. Thing is, IO will just that, work only on small maps with limited distance between maps.

The main argument of IO supporters is that armor/jets are overpowered, take that fight into a 16 player map with 64 player limit and armor suddenly becomes a non-factor.

Again, why waste the precious patching/coding time on a setting that can be done by admins anyway?! And in an unranked server one can create a IO environment anyway simply by tweaking the maps. If one can create an environment with unlimited spawning vehicles without making it a mod, one can disable vehicles in the map alltogether.

So, in the end, the conclusion is this- IO most furious supporters are just people who dont want their precious stats to be srcrewed. I, myself rank them as statpadders. Soon-to-be-official statpadders.

[KristianSax]

Re: Infantry only mode ranked or....?

oi, tere sullegi

Well actually i didn't have in mind 64 players on a small map, I agree that is way too much. 20 players or at most 32 players for a small map is more than enough. Respectively 64 players on a medium map. Even a well coordinated 16 player map with 16 players can even be more fun than a 64 player map with 64 players.

And regarding the statspadding ... well i'm not in the game for the stats (well maybe a little bit :P) but rather for the game. And I for some reason have the tendency of encountering an armored vehicle when i don't have the ability to even damage it and anyone who has is too far away. And in an IO the points are more evenly spread rather than awarded to the best flyboys :P

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Infantry only mode ranked or....?

oi, tere sullegi
Well actually i didn't have in mind 64 players on a small map, I agree that is way too much. 20 players or at most 32 players for a small map is more than enough. Respectively 64 players on a medium map. Even a well coordinated 16 player map with 16 players can even be more fun than a 64 player map with 64 players.

Running around in a 32 player map is the same ***** as running around in a 64 player map. if you run 5 miles, an extra 100 yards doesnt mean much more . So far, in my opinion, the best concentration and spread is 64 players in a 32 player map. Just enough room for strategy, and little enough space for much action.

And regarding the statspadding ... well i'm not in the game for the stats (well maybe a little bit :P) but rather for the game. And I for some reason have the tendency of encountering an armored vehicle when i don't have the ability to even damage it and anyone who has is too far away. And in an IO the points are more evenly spread rather than awarded to the best flyboys :P

Im a flyboy whos just recently started putting in major focus into infantry action. Combining one issue from two point of views tells me this. A jet doesnt take away anyones stats nor points. You may see as if its the case if you check that a jet has more points than you do, but if you take a look at the bigger picture, youll notice that you dont lose anything.

For example. How many points would you be getting when you attack a fully defended outpost? I think we can agree that going against 4-5 people, youll most likely just leave with one death. But lets say the jet empties the base and leaves a few defenders. Your chances of knocking out at least 1 guy have risen a lot. After that you can take shots at freshly spawned people who havent got the chance to take battlepositions. Plus you get that 1-4 points for flag capping that a jet doesnt.

Would you rather go against a heavily defended outpost where you probably die, or would you go against a situation where you can get a 1:1 fight. Knowing that youre a clan-man, with probably a nice set of skills, your still prefer a 1:1 fight where your chances are highest.

Then theres another situation. Jet bombing you. While its a b!tch to deal with, a little common sense can make it so youll never die by a jet bomb in the whole round. No matter how good the pilot is.

No matter how good the pilot is, he cant bomb infantry units. He can only bomb landmarks and HUD targets. Staying away from flag perimeter is a good way to increase survivability. Defending a flag can be done from behind outside walls aswell .

And finally, as for taking points away from infantry, Ive come to a conclusion that the effect is very small, almost negligible. Hell, youll probably score a lot more with a Medic kit after your comrades have fallen by a drop on their heads, I know I can get at least 3 revives when I witness a successful OpFor drop . Exploiting peoples stupidity and unluck? Hell yeah!

[KristianSax]

Re: Infantry only mode ranked or....?

I admit it, you make a good point :)

I guess I was thinking of the more marginal cases when I wrote this. But every now-and-then I seem to have a hug tag on me saying BOMBS HERE.

Then of course it happens a lot that if one team has an überpilot (plane or heli, no matter) the other one has no-one to match him thus giving him the freedom to kill other moving objects that don't shoot stingers at you :)

Regarding the fully defended outpost ... well I usually avoid playing the hero but it sometimes still happens. Then all depends on who is defending ... you could take out all of them, some of them or take a well deserved 15 sec break.

EDIT: I wouldn't say that my skills are high ... maybe a bit above average. On the clan level I'd say I rather lack the skills than have them 8)

[Komet.nl]

Re: Infantry only mode ranked or....?

You mean Dolphin 'Skills' that are often used in Clan Matches.. :laugh: ?

Well w/e I often see in Clan Matches that everyone's Dolphin Diving like a mad man.

[pYura]

Re: Infantry only mode ranked or....?

Chris you are not right... jets do take away points from ground troops since they see the respawn screen more than the game itself :laugh:

[KristianSax]

Re: Infantry only mode ranked or....?

You mean Dolphin 'Skills' that are often used in Clan Matches.. :laugh: ?

Well w/e I often see in Clan Matches that everyone's Dolphin Diving like a mad man.

No not those ... i've tried it but its a load of c€$p. I like to play the game, not attack the keyboard. Under skills its more aiming, knowing what to do and where to go and how to support your team.
This dolphin diving is actually quite ugly to look at too.

[Beerman]

Re: Infantry only mode ranked or....?

it ll be ranked cause they wouldnt add it if it wasnt

[sidtherat]

Re: Infantry only mode ranked or....?

Then theres another situation. Jet bombing you. While its a b!tch to deal with, a little common sense can make it so youll never die by a jet bomb in the whole round. No matter how good the pilot is.

No matter how good the pilot is, he cant bomb infantry units. He can only bomb landmarks and HUD targets. Staying away from flag perimeter is a good way to increase survivability. Defending a flag can be done from behind outside walls aswell .

so tell me one thing - what are you doing playing infantry, if you dont fight for flags? play sniper? [yaaawn] infantry usualy stays with flags on open maps [kubra, oman] or takes vechicle and moves to another flag - in both cases infantry is a great target [by prediction or by means of green box]. or you play sniper, than yes, you cant die by a bomb entire week, but again, sniper is only one class out of 7. so tell me, what are you doing while playing infantry - but please, refrain from 'im playing smart' generalisations, we all think that we play smart, but still we die sometimes. you hide entire round in bushes? take a reaaaaly long run from one flag to another instead of taking vechicle? never leave buildings?
because i play infantry for some degree [im tankwhore with inclination for aawhoring] and i know that when i want to cap the flag as an infantry im already dead. bombs have enourmous blast radius, and not all flags have convenient enclosed areas within cap radius.. in fact most of them dont have

as for IO mode - wake is great in io.. im still waiting to play some SF maps in io mode. mass destruction/surge/warlord/ghost town - extasy...

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Infantry only mode ranked or....?

so tell me one thing - what are you doing playing infantry, if you dont fight for flags? play sniper?

Who said I never take flags?
I DO die by bombs, when I make a mistake that is. The flag-capping maneuver which is standard for me is. Lower to neutral, wait 10-15 seconds and then cap it. If a jet wont come during those 10-15 seconds, it wont come. However, the best sight is a jet wasting all its bombs on an empty flag area. Then I just come back, and cap it. Its really that simple.

Sniper is a waste of a kit.

[yaaawn] infantry usualy stays with flags on open maps [kubra, oman] or takes vechicle and moves to another flag - in both cases infantry is a great target [by prediction or by means of green box].

It indeed does. And what an ignorant misconception. You dont have to stick near the flagpole to defend a flag. Fact is, the outposts offer so much more for cover than an immediate area around the flags. If you get bombed while youre on foot, youre doing something wrong. If you get bombed while youre at a flag and you get bombed, you definitely are doing something wrong.

As for vehicles. Its hard to hit a moving buggie. If you do get hit, blame the skills of a pilot. Just as newbies blame good infantry players for their deaths. So now what, should we nerf all guns just so that weaker players had a better chance?

So youre in an armor, if youre in a tank, and youre good at it, then a jet harassing you is just a sign of balance. A fighter will hardly kill you in one blow, unless youre stationary. Itll mostly take you to below 50% or red, and thats the time when you have to bail. Result is, although you lost the tank, youre still alive.

As for a bomber. Terrain and buildings can offer a lot of cover. Moving out in the open is the quickest way to die. If you position yourself near a building for example, you can only be hit by splash damage. I try to do this myself as much as possible and it increases survivability.

And, needless to say, if youre in a vehicle, and in the HUD of a jet, youve positioned yourself as a target, and as a target which is one-two steps lower in the food chain. Youre supposed to be at a disadvantage, thats a sad fact, but a fact nonetheless.

If youre an infantry on foot, youre not on the HUD and you should take advantage of that. Stay away from jet pilots targeting points, landmarks and vehicles, and you will never get hit.

Finally, play smart. I only see stupidity in BF2. There are players with remarkable brains overplaying inantry, yet when it comes to such a simple concept as, evading a jet, its suddenly "impossible". Its not.

or you play sniper, than yes, you cant die by a bomb entire week, but again, sniper is only one class out of 7. so tell me, what are you doing while playing infantry - but please, refrain from 'im playing smart' generalisations, we all think that we play smart, but still we die sometimes.

Do you think in IO you will never die?

[Bubas]

Re: Infantry only mode ranked or....?

Who said I never take flags?
I DO die by bombs, when I make a mistake that is. The flag-capping maneuver which is standard for me is. Lower to neutral, wait 10-15 seconds and then cap it. If a jet wont come during those 10-15 seconds, it wont come. However, the best sight is a jet wasting all its bombs on an empty flag area. Then I just come back, and cap it. Its really that simple.

Chris, you are right about this one, I allways do this, even in infantary maps...after I lower a flag I´ll wait a little bit outside the flag area just to see who is coming...if you stay under the flag the whole time you will die, people will be looking there for you, spam granades, etc...

[WolfAlmighty]

Re: Infantry only mode ranked or....?

What I have yet to understand is why anyone actually prefers the infantry fighting in this game to either using the vehicles or to playing another FPS that's designed solely around infantry fighting. I just don't get it. As an 'FPS', BF2 is horrible. Battlefield: Vietnam was ten times the FPS that BF2 is. BF2 as an FPS is so clunky and unreliable it's amazing anyone finds the gameplay anything short of frustrating. What BF:V (and BF1942 for that matter) had that BF2 should but doesn't:

•Soldiers who can't jump 5' in the air. In arcady FPS' like Unreal it's fine for people to jump high, but in a military-type shooter where you're envisioning people as soldiers and not superhuman hops-like-Shawn-Marion people it's absurd to see them be able to jump high enough to practically clear the height of a standing man.

•Insta-proning, or rather the lack thereof. In my experience, unless terrain dictates otherwise (such as firing over a wall), about nine out of every ten infantry 'fights' in BF2 begins with each combatant slamming the Z key, whether they are 200m or 2m away. Instant proning accuracy, no delays whatsoever. In BF:V you had to wait about 2-3 seconds from when you hit prone before having the accuracy of a prone soldier, plus the view went haywire if you did it on uneven ground such as the side of a hill. The view thing I could take or leave, but the accuracy delay is a must. It's bollocks to see someone 5 feet away from you all of a sudden do some sort of a bellyflop-lunge and in that same instant be able to aim and fire their heavy-*** LMG. I'm probably the last person to play the whole realism card in BF, but that's just laughable, and it pretty much makes crouch a useless stance.

•No dolphin diving/prone spamming. In the same vein of the two things mentioned above, there wasn't any (at least that I came across) of this BS hitbox lag/third person view manipulation like you can see in BF2 where people will abuse the prone/crouch/jump/stand animations to make themselves very difficult to hit. Sure, it's a great gameplay 'tactic' if you are in a competitive clan, but when I look out on a Battlefield I'd rather see soldiers fighting, not ex-members from Cirque du Soleil flopping and dancing around.

•Cone of fire/random deviation was at a minimum. Recoil played a MUCH bigger factor in BF:V and BF1942 than it does in BF2 (although recoil does still have an effect, just a less controllable one) and because of that the random deviation wasn't as exaggerated. A lot of the recoil effect was mixed into the random deviation in BF2 (in an attempt to n00bify the game, I'm guessing, so that players who learned how to adjust for recoil didn't jump in and own new players, giving everyone, both new and veteran, an equal ground). Basically your bullets went to that little white dot in the centre of your crosshairs unless you held it on full auto the whole time. You could actually shoot 'from the hip' at someone from two feet away and not have your bullets fly out at 45 degree angles like they often seem to do in BF2.

•No ironsights. While not a problem in itself because I think ironsights are a pretty cool feature, the ironsights on many of the guns in BF2 are off (there's a thread here at totalbf2 with some good info on the matter but I CBA to look for it right now), meaning what you think is the centre of your screen, isn't, necessarily. While BF1942 and BF:V didn't have ironsights, only a 'zoom' for alt-fire (although sniper rifles did have scopes), at least it still meant that the dot you see in the crosshair still was the centre of the screen and that's were your bullet will go when you press 'fire'. With how sloppy some of the ironsights are in BF2, especially the M249, AK101, and MR-444, it's evident that DICE either didn't care they were off-centre, or they figured the guns were inaccurate enough as it was that it would never matter and people wouldn't care too much since vehicles were the focus of the game.

•Class choice. Now, before you say that BF2 has seven classes and BF:V only had four, in some sense you're right but in another sense it was better in BF:V, at least as far as infantry combat was concerned. In an IO mode for BF2, you're essentially going to have two useless classes - the Engineer and the AT. Now yes, some people will say something akin to, 'I will pwn j00 with mah DAO-12 and pump shottie!!!', yes those guns are good, but the classes AT and engineer will be useless. You'll have little use for AT rockets other than a clunky way of shooting at infantry, and landmines and the spanner will be completely useless. For an IO mode, those two classes should be removed entirely and do what BF:V did - give each class a choice between two different weapon loadouts. For example on many of the US vs. NVA maps, the US assault soldiers were given a choice between an M16 or a Mossberg 500 shotgun. So, do the same with the assault class in BF2. When you choose your loadout, you can choose either the M16A2, or the M11-87 pump shotgun. That way people who wanted to use a shotgun to assault can, well, use a shotgun as Assault! However, Assault won't be played much regardless because of...

•Medics. An overpowered class in its own right, but when you take away vehicular threats they become gods of the battlefield. There was no 'medic' class in BF:V, which was kind of sad (although in the US vs. VC maps all US soldiers had medkits which was kind of unfair, but I digress), but at least in BF1942 the medics were at least balanced against their assault counterparts. AFAIK no soldiers in BF1942 had body armour, but the medics got weaker guns than assault, didn't have the spammable insta-heal medpacks, nor the Revive-o-Matic™ defibs that could bring fallen soldiers back from the dead. Medic's role was more situational because they didn't have the stronger guns and their healing took time. They weren't the one-class wonder they are in BF2, and with vehicles removed this will only be accentuated.

...

I won't get into the indestructable Claymore issue right now since FF-on/off is a serverside setting and in FF-on environments clayspammers are self-checked. But if you add all that up basically what you have is an FPS with seven classes, only five of which will be useful and only three of which will be played with regularity (mostly medic, some support, and some snipers), all of whom experience hitbox glitches and random cones of fire. Basically, a game that is inferior to its own predecessor in that regard. Why people would want to play a game as clunky and luck-based as BF2's infantry combat for fun is beyond me. But my guess is most people aren't going to play it because it's 'fun', they're going to play it because they'll have stats to show how l33t they are to their friends and won't have to worry about vehicles ruining their almighty KDRs (or they'd play it unranked, like earlier BFs were).

~Wolfgang

[W_Parmenter]

Re: Infantry only mode ranked or....?

Why people would want to play a game as clunky and luck-based as BF2's infantry combat for fun is beyond me. But my guess is most people aren't going to play it because it's 'fun', they're going to play it because they'll have stats to show how l33t they are to their friends and won't have to worry about vehicles ruining their almighty KDRs (or they'd play it unranked, like earlier BFs were).

Despite BF2's "clunky" infantry combat I do find that it is fun and it's frustrating to have a good fight ruined by air and artillary. I don't buy the argument that IO is stat padding since currently you can achive a much higher KDR by armor and air whoring. If the game was balanced then players of equal skill would be able to score equal KDRs regardless of whether they ground pounded, armor whored, or flew. On an IO server everyone will be on the same footing and those who do run up high KDRs will truly be l33t.