Novel Solution to Claymores

[imported_Geo]

Re: Novel Solution to Claymores

Why not just have team-mates set them off, but no TK option is presented to them?

[volkl]

Re: Novel Solution to Claymores

was going for more of "in the game" rather than irl. in the game, its given to a sniper, not a sabot, thus its purpose must be to defend said sniper.


exactly, which brings another option to the table, either remove them from the game, or give them to a class that SHOULD have them.

lol, im not talking about that, im talking about the flat ground scenario!

um, what is it then?

a) this would take alot of code
b) when im blazing down the road i dont wanna hit an invisable wall and then be a static target for jets.

I was talking about a flat ground scenario as well. Elevation in this context did not refer to the height of the Claymore itself but the angle of inclination that describes the sensors detection range.

The point of the proposed solution, if you had read it carefully, was to find a compromise that works better (subjective, granted) than either the current mine FF ON and mine FF off options. The limitations of both are pointed out. Neither work well with the general public due to griefers, clueless morons, and spammers. None of which are in short supply.

Yes, coding the proposed solution would not be trivial. For that reason (and perhaps others), it's unlikely to be implemented. Having friendlies trigger Claymores but not take damage would be extremely easy to code. I think it would also be an improvement over the current situation. In terms of simplicity, it would be a better solution than the one I propose.

The movement restriction would only apply to anti-personnel mines. Since this is a thread on Claymores, I assumed that to be implicit when using the term 'mine'.

i think people are missing the point...

if you want claymores to blowup teammates THEN GET THE ****ING SERVER TO TURN MINE+CLAY FF ON. ITS A BLOODY OPTION!!! DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT??? ITS AN OPTION...............................

I get that you either have no reading comprehension or were too lazy to read the problem statement of the introductory post. If you have nothing to contribute, feel free to not post.

i like some of your poitns but the sort of wall ....mhhh nahhh don't like that

Admittedly, an "invisible wall" could be kinda weird. What if it were more like tar which slowed your progress down to a crawl in the direction of the Claymore (while on foot). And at the same time an audible command (using Commander personna) said something like "Sorry, that area is mined"?

Do you think that being prevented from walking into a friendly Claymore via an "invisble wall" is more or less frustrating than actually being blown up by a friendly Claymore?

Either way, your forward progress is essentially halted.

"Trigger Zone", doesn't sound like a fix too me...Sharqi for example, a Sniper spawns first and lays claymores at the top of the ladder(TV Flag) and the bottom of the stairs(TV Station). Now, if you spawn on the roof you can't get away from the TV Station unless a) you jump from the roof b) Walk through a claymore and die, waiting to be revived, you know what I mean.

IMO, just make it so they can be destroyed/removed. Putting a "Trigger Zone" up will only aggrivate the rest of us, and another game play change in this regards is not what BF2 needs at this time, again IMO.
T

Fair point. In addition to a placement restriction (may not place within ~50 yards of any friendlies), no placement within first 10 seconds of a round to eliminate the early spawn sniper scenario you outline.

[Uberduber]

Re: Novel Solution to Claymores

a sniper shouldnt be using claymores for anything but defending thier sniping position, thats why it doesnt matter, because unless you are a squad leader, you wont have anyteammates near your claymores.

I don't care what they SHOULD be used for, people can and will put them anywhere they think an enemy will walk. It's unfair to snipers to allow team mates to run through and destroy their claymores without any penalty. Some people will go out of their way you to screw you over, this is no different. Would be nice if claymores blew up friendlies with a "no more" message, but then evil snipers would be placing them everywhere friendlies are present just to giggle when they see team mates flying through the air.

You always have to ask yourself, how can this possibly be abused? 'Cause people will find ways...

[USI_Krusher]

Re: Novel Solution to Claymores

PERIOD.

Nothing else needs to be done: if friendlies cannot be bothered to check their map/radar, they deserve to get blown up.

In other words, friendlies will KNOW where claymores are and should they be stupid enough to wander in, will get killed. However, the sniper will not get a TK.

Simple and elegant solution.

While I agree that people should be looking at their minimap, I don't think that having their locations on that minimap will make a difference. If they cannot see the red skull and crossbones as they approach them, they're not paying attention (most likely the case), or have their 3D map turned off. I do not buy into the "I turn my 3D map off because it clutters my screen" crap.

Sadly, there are people who do place them in "bad" places, causing excessive teamkills. But how many times will someone walk up to you, with a claymore out in the open, there's no way they could have missed it, and give you a teamkill. Then have the balls to punish YOU for it! Of course the punish doesn't decrease your score, but it's a slap in your face for their stupidity.

Then, you have the idiot who didn't want to walk 3 ft to either side of the claymore, gets killed, and then proceeds to do it over and over again, until you get enough Tk's to get kicked.

DICE has proven they cannot fix even the simplest of problems, let alone code ANY of the suggestions here.

If I had my "druthers", I'd have it where explosives (C4/grenade) can detonate one. Also, I'd have it where friendlies can be blown up, but it not be a TK, nor can they punish, like they did with commander artillery.

My two cents.

[Roger Smith]

Re: Novel Solution to Claymores

I don't care what they SHOULD be used for, people can and will put them anywhere they think an enemy will walk.

thats cool and all but if they were triggered by teamamtes that would prompt players to learn which places to put them and where not to, rather than just placing them anywhere (like around thier own base)

It's unfair to snipers to allow team mates to run through and destroy their claymores without any penalty.

all you lose is a claymore, what you are suggesting, could be abused aswell, except people would die, with no punishment, rather than people just losing claymores.

[Absurdus]

Re: Novel Solution to Claymores

I've no problem with claymores in alleys, around flags, thats what there for, defence, traps. It's those tits who just run around the map, claymore in hand and the minute they see you they drop it and run. Really gets on my tits. Put in a deploy delay, i.e. sniper has to be prone and it takes 2 seconds to fully deploy.

I've 360 hours as snipers and I rarely use the things. If you know whats going on around you, you don't need them. The last place a sniper wants to be now adays is up a ladder.

[Sung_Do_Chuck]

Re: Novel Solution to Claymores

hmmmm, I like claymores as they are but they should be destroyable with explosives.

I don't like it if a server gots clay/atmine-ff enabled because this rule makes these weapons useless.

[Uberduber]

Re: Novel Solution to Claymores

what you are suggesting, could be abused aswell, except people would die, with no punishment, rather than people just losing claymores.

Learn to read the whole post, thanks. I didn't suggest it, just presented it as what could happen with some "solutions".

Would be nice if claymores blew up friendlies with a "no more" message, but then evil snipers would be placing them everywhere friendlies are present just to giggle when they see team mates flying through the air.

For the record, I think the only practical and non-abusive solution is to make claymores destructable again, but with FF off (unless set by the server)

[deadman2312]

Re: Novel Solution to Claymores

First, I did read/skim the Claymore Workshop...all 8 pages. Recap of ideas presented to my recollection:

- Despite "ground rules", re-enable FF (fair enough argument)
- Require substantial arming time
- Supress triggering if crawling/crouched; chance of detonation speed dependent
- Reduce damage if just walking and not sprinting
- Have claymore triggered by friendlies but not incur damage to friendlies
- Allow heavy ammunition/explosive to detonate
- Allow Claymores to be spotted and appear on mini map

Problem statement:
With Claymore FF turned on, too many team kills result. Majority of BF2 players cannot be trusted to interpret a skull and crossbones. Consequently, placing Claymores is too risky and tends to be avoided and under-used.

With claymore FF turned off, snipers spam alleys (and other areas) with Claymores for ridiculously easy kills. Claymores are not intelligent devices that should distinguish between friend or foe.

Solution:

• Implement game logic that does not allow Claymores to be placed if any friendlies are within ~50 yards. This will pretty much prevent them from being used in Karkand alleys while still protecting snipers hiding on hillsides.
• Friendlies may not enter into the trigger zone of a Claymore. They are blocked as if running into a wall. The idea that friendly troops can rush through a mined area immune to threats is absurd. This prevents teamkills, preserves the efforts the sniper who has placed the mine, and discourages abuse of alleyways. Note, the limit of two Claymores and the above placement restriction should prevent an exploit by griefers.
• As already suggested in the other thread, allow mines to be marked which will then appear as distinct persistent dots on the mini map. Once marked, enemies will also be prevented from entering into the trigger zone of a Claymore as are friendlies. Marking a Claymore will automatically shield your team from becoming a casualty.
• Enable the movement restriction into a trigger zone to be overriden (e.g. by holding down the <alt> key while moving). Forcibly entering a trigger zone will cause detonation and damage to friendlies and enemies alike. Allow this option for squads with a medic on hand who need to get past the mine.

or how about just pay attention, instead of running full speed around every corner?

Stealth has its benefits.....

Claymores arent the problem, its the people who die repeatedly by them that are.....

Seriously if you have an issue with claymores STILL, you arent playing right.:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

deadman2312[Claymore]SoonToBeTBF2ForumWhiner

[volkl]

Re: Novel Solution to Claymores

or how about just pay attention, instead of running full speed around every corner?

Stealth has its benefits.....

Claymores arent the problem, its the people who die repeatedly by them that are.....

Seriously if you have an issue with claymores STILL, you arent playing right.:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

deadman2312[Claymore]SoonToBeTBF2ForumWhiner

You are confusing caution with stealth but that's the least of your problems. No amount of caution changes the fact that an intelligent Claymore that detonates on enemies garnering no-brainer kills while allowing friendlies to pass unhindered is lame. Also lame, is the sniper's revenge tactic of throwing a Claymore at the feet of an opponent just before dying.

Incidentally, I play sniper rather frequently. And yes, I will exploit Claymores to their full potential just as the other side does. You people who claim that tactics need to be adapted to overcome (such as with the old Blackhawks) need to get over yourselves. It's a matter of balance and reason. You're not in possession of any unique talents.

[RavenRealms]

Re: Novel Solution to Claymores

Ok....Are you asking for another nerf?

There are both sides here. The ones who love claymores, and the ones who get ****ed of being spammed by them.

If you nerf the claymores, it'll make one group of people happy, but it'll upset the other group..

What's the point? You can never make anyone happy.

There ARE workarounds for claymore spammers you know.

1. If you know what teamwork is, you'll take a medic with you, let the claymore blow you up while the medic just revives. What's the problem? :)

[imported_bigpappa]

Re: Novel Solution to Claymores

i think its fine the way it is. PLEASE DICE DONT CHANGE ANYTHING!!!!

[volkl]

Re: Novel Solution to Claymores

Ok....Are you asking for another nerf?

The first post in this thread should address your question.

[Fakesound]

Re: Novel Solution to Claymores

I got helf way through before beginning to yawn. All been said. Original ideas were over the top e.g. Invisible walls and Alt to continue OR seeing enemy devices defeating purpose.. Please adapt and play a more tactical game when using a sniper kit, or be more aware of your surrounding just like enemy troops.

My thoughts on Claymores:
Explosive device used by snipers to prevent enemy infantry from entering a specific area in a strategic manner.
Please, all out there confirm you have read this. Even if you think your not a Noob. The idea is you learn not to place in area's that affect your allies.
I hate minus points, so I have stopped placing Claymores in pathetic positions which prevent allies from entering. E.g. Alleyways in the Noob days.

My thoughts on RED Skull and Crossbones:
Danger. Why do teammates persist to continue to walk in front of these. Are they not obvious, or are they extremely inviting to you?!
I've quoted this before is response to friendly fire / why a claymore doesn't know the difference between Goodies or Badies "A claymore has no personality and will blast the **** out of you". Don't use FF on, seriously makes no sense to me.

Only thing I have agreed on in this post is Claymore Destructability. I feel a single bullet to be able to explode a claymore, enemy and friendly.
I liked the comment of a specific noise occuring once this has been either detonated or destroyed.

Removing
I would like to be able to pick up my claymores. To let others up the ladder, or move to another snipe position and take my claymore's with me.

[deadman2312]

Re: Novel Solution to Claymores

i think its fine the way it is. PLEASE DICE DONT CHANGE ANYTHING!!!!

C 1.....................