Air to Air missile changes must be reverted.

[imported_Gue]

Re: Air to Air missile changes must be reverted.

They don't need to revert the changes, they need to scrap the whole system and start from scratch. I've said it a hundred times now. Creating an AA system that requires you to line up your target and keep them perfectly in your sights for the missile to track. That change of course would be coupled with an increase in range to balance them out a bit better. That and adjust the lock zone to make it smaller, but bottom line is missiles will become more effective in the hands of a skilled player with a true aim, as they should be. Planes should have a similar lock system as well, but with a slightly larger lock zone and/or slightly faster missiles to compensate.

That is of course only one small part of the equation, they then need to balance out the jet handling characteristics. I've yet to be shot down by another plane while in the J-10 since the 1.2 patch however plenty of J-10 have killed me while in crap aircraft like the F-35B.

Just yesterday I had a game on Dragon Valley where I fired a total of 28 missiles at a single J-10 pilot over the course of a game (I counted them, sadly) and every single missed, I finally resorted to following this newbie with this cannons on bomb mode to kill them. He on the other hand caught me once at random from behind, fired 2 missiles at me, and both hit and destroyed me. I'm clearly the superior pilot yet he was able to shoot me down with ease. Fact is the airplanes are currently the most unbalanced aspect of this game right now. Hell I've played plenty of Gulf of Oman games and they all ended roughly the same with me shooting down the F-35B 10-20 times in a single game without dying once in the bomber, I mean for christ sakes what's wrong with DICE? I don't even bother flying the fighter on the map as even the bomber can out fly the sad little F-36B.

I'm fairly confident however even though DICE has followed bits of advice in the past they won't listen to me this time, even though it's the wise thing to do and these suggestions are coming from one of the most skilled and experienced pilots in BF2.

Although your nick suggests nothing good, you're ABSOLUTLY RIGHT.
That's what I always have been thinking. They need to make lock-ons skilled, it's nothing but eye candy right now. Just a counter has been added with flares, nice touch but sorry DICE not enough. I was always thinking they should make lock-on radius smaller so it's more difficult to track skilled pilots.
But I have to add that your idea is way better thought out and complete.

When I first played BFVietnam I was in disgust with the "shoot and forget" heat-seeking missiles. There's really no skill whatsoever involved in it. It's plain boring and pointless.

When I first saw the announcement of lock-on feature in BF2. I was thrilled to see how that would work out. Just to be dissapointed that this is nothing but looks. I have found little gameplay around it but this must've dissapeared since new patches which I can't really know.
I just abadonned jets and never touch them anymore.

Absolulty hated you can't even kill jets properly with cannon fire. When they're banking too fast, cannon fire doesn't hit them at all no matter what angle you're firing at. Also the damage it deals at the time was patheticly weak.

In DC you could hit jets with really nice huge angles which made dogfighting very interesting. Also the dumbfire rockets are not as cool perhaps they still are way more fun then the skilless missiles in bf2.

DICE you have to come up with better gameplay to defeat DC dogfighting. And it is something you should take in consideration. Yeah right bf is not flight sim. It's insane fun arcade flight game, one where your game can have as unique factor.

[Revoluti0n]

Re: Air to Air missile changes must be reverted.

I think bitvomit has a point though. If a change is made it should be a increase in locking range for jets. The process of dogfighting could also use a2a tweak too I guess. Maybe like some have already suggested make the A2A equally effective or ineffective across the board.

[Tobacco]

Re: Air to Air missile changes must be reverted.

[QUOTE=bitvomit] Before they changed it, it used to take skill to kill someone with your missiles.
QUOTE]

No dude, that was luck. Even with all the skill you still needed luck, why? Because they nearly didn't work at all before. Stop your crying..........


T

[imported_bigpappa]

Re: Air to Air missile changes must be reverted.

its fine the way it is, but we do have to stop the bullet whores from ruining this game.

[zipp0r]

Re: Air to Air missile changes must be reverted.

They don't need to revert the changes, they need to scrap the whole system and start from scratch. I've said it a hundred times now. Creating an AA system that requires you to line up your target and keep them perfectly in your sights for the missile to track. That change of course would be coupled with an increase in range to balance them out a bit better. That and adjust the lock zone to make it smaller, but bottom line is missiles will become more effective in the hands of a skilled player with a true aim, as they should be. Planes should have a similar lock system as well, but with a slightly larger lock zone and/or slightly faster missiles to compensate.

That is of course only one small part of the equation, they then need to balance out the jet handling characteristics. I've yet to be shot down by another plane while in the J-10 since the 1.2 patch however plenty of J-10 have killed me while in crap aircraft like the F-35B.

Just yesterday I had a game on Dragon Valley where I fired a total of 28 missiles at a single J-10 pilot over the course of a game (I counted them, sadly) and every single missed, I finally resorted to following this newbie with this cannons on bomb mode to kill them. He on the other hand caught me once at random from behind, fired 2 missiles at me, and both hit and destroyed me. I'm clearly the superior pilot yet he was able to shoot me down with ease. Fact is the airplanes are currently the most unbalanced aspect of this game right now. Hell I've played plenty of Gulf of Oman games and they all ended roughly the same with me shooting down the F-35B 10-20 times in a single game without dying once in the bomber, I mean for christ sakes what's wrong with DICE? I don't even bother flying the fighter on the map as even the bomber can out fly the sad little F-36B.

I'm fairly confident however even though DICE has followed bits of advice in the past they won't listen to me this time, even though it's the wise thing to do and these suggestions are coming from one of the most skilled and experienced pilots in BF2.

28 missiles and none hit???? i find its usually 1 out of 6 missiles that will hit a j10 that is trying to get away.

although i have fired a similar number of missiles at f18s and they just dodge them all doing NOTHING special lol


and i see other comments like increase A2A range, make them into 1.2 missiles etc.. well those comments are coming from plebs... im not god, but im certainly up there with the best of them and thus have alot of exp in the planes, hence i rip into anyone posting the j10 is BS crap when there is the f18 which is worse.
i know for a fact it takes NO SKILL AT ALL to shoot a2a missiles and 1.2 was just retarded. it was a rare occasion to get shot down pre 1.2, but that was due to being able to escape in any plane and the chaser lost me after a few moves, thats their lack of skill, not my fault... a good pilot wont loose me that easily and thats who i should be afraid of. not mr low rank that see's me in passing and spams a few missiles to get a cheap and easy kill. nor should it be that easy for me and i dont like it being easy, i like to work for kills.
ive only been shot down by cannons once since 1.2 and that was in a bomber just ****ing off an f18 pilot by flying loops after i dodged all 6 missiles, it took him a good few minutes to figure out how to lead and take away the remaining 50% of health and i was lmfao while he was following :laugh: really shows how much a random has to rely on his missiles against other planes.

something needs to be done to give all planes a chance to get dodge missiles, but also needs them to have a chance of hitting someone with them, computer generated luck like it is at the moment isnt good enough.
something like PH said where you have to keep the lock to hit would probably be best, but other things like you cant dodge unless youve done a reasonable percentage of a hard turn or a long crazy roll.


another thing i wanted to know, when people are suggsting things like A2A are fine and g2a need a boost, how much flight exp do they have in the game ?? as i really do doubt that their points are as valid and fair as more experienced players views. (yea read into those people that would say 1.2 aa was fair and perfect or even needed boosting rofl)

[bitvomit]

Re: Air to Air missile changes must be reverted.

28 missiles and none hit???? i find its usually 1 out of 6 missiles that will hit a j10 that is trying to get away.

although i have fired a similar number of missiles at f18s and they just dodge them all doing NOTHING special lol


and i see other comments like increase A2A range, make them into 1.2 missiles etc.. well those comments are coming from plebs... im not god, but im certainly up there with the best of them and thus have alot of exp in the planes, hence i rip into anyone posting the j10 is BS crap when there is the f18 which is worse.
i know for a fact it takes NO SKILL AT ALL to shoot a2a missiles and 1.2 was just retarded. it was a rare occasion to get shot down pre 1.2, but that was due to being able to escape in any plane and the chaser lost me after a few moves, thats their lack of skill, not my fault... a good pilot wont loose me that easily and thats who i should be afraid of. not mr low rank that see's me in passing and spams a few missiles to get a cheap and easy kill. nor should it be that easy for me and i dont like it being easy, i like to work for kills.
ive only been shot down by cannons once since 1.2 and that was in a bomber just ****ing off an f18 pilot by flying loops after i dodged all 6 missiles, it took him a good few minutes to figure out how to lead and take away the remaining 50% of health and i was lmfao while he was following :laugh: really shows how much a random has to rely on his missiles against other planes.

something needs to be done to give all planes a chance to get dodge missiles, but also needs them to have a chance of hitting someone with them, computer generated luck like it is at the moment isnt good enough.
something like PH said where you have to keep the lock to hit would probably be best, but other things like you cant dodge unless youve done a reasonable percentage of a hard turn or a long crazy roll.


another thing i wanted to know, when people are suggsting things like A2A are fine and g2a need a boost, how much flight exp do they have in the game ?? as i really do doubt that their points are as valid and fair as more experienced players views. (yea read into those people that would say 1.2 aa was fair and perfect or even needed boosting rofl)

I'm glad to see more disgruntled pilots who have come to the realization that DICE overpowered the Air to Air missile code to cater to newbie pilots. It simply is not fun to fly jets anymore regardless of whether you're the victim getting owned or the owner owning. Before the 1.2 patch there was skill involved in evading other jets. There was also skill in shooting down other jets because back then you had to chase someone down and wait for the perfect opportunity to land your missiles or shoot ahead of them with your cannons as they tried to evade you. Now all you have to do is spam missiles when you see someone and they will more than likely hit.

Flares are useless unless the enemy has shot all of his missiles off and you hit your flares at the right moment. Then the game becomes more of a pre 1.2 dogfight where maneuverability trumped magic missiles. Unfortunately most people give up chasing you after they run out of missiles and go back to reload. Sad. For the idiots that keep saying that there is nothing wrong with the A2A missile code, go load up the oman demo and notice the difference in dogfighting. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that drastic and unecessary changes have occured to the game since then.

[XmetallicaXguitarstX]

Re: Air to Air missile changes must be reverted.

28 missiles and none hit???? i find its usually 1 out of 6 missiles that will hit a j10 that is trying to get away.

although i have fired a similar number of missiles at f18s and they just dodge them all doing NOTHING special lol


and i see other comments like increase A2A range, make them into 1.2 missiles etc.. well those comments are coming from plebs... im not god, but im certainly up there with the best of them and thus have alot of exp in the planes, hence i rip into anyone posting the j10 is BS crap when there is the f18 which is worse.
i know for a fact it takes NO SKILL AT ALL to shoot a2a missiles and 1.2 was just retarded. it was a rare occasion to get shot down pre 1.2, but that was due to being able to escape in any plane and the chaser lost me after a few moves, thats their lack of skill, not my fault... a good pilot wont loose me that easily and thats who i should be afraid of. not mr low rank that see's me in passing and spams a few missiles to get a cheap and easy kill. nor should it be that easy for me and i dont like it being easy, i like to work for kills.
ive only been shot down by cannons once since 1.2 and that was in a bomber just ****ing off an f18 pilot by flying loops after i dodged all 6 missiles, it took him a good few minutes to figure out how to lead and take away the remaining 50% of health and i was lmfao while he was following :laugh: really shows how much a random has to rely on his missiles against other planes.

something needs to be done to give all planes a chance to get dodge missiles, but also needs them to have a chance of hitting someone with them, computer generated luck like it is at the moment isnt good enough.
something like PH said where you have to keep the lock to hit would probably be best, but other things like you cant dodge unless youve done a reasonable percentage of a hard turn or a long crazy roll.


another thing i wanted to know, when people are suggsting things like A2A are fine and g2a need a boost, how much flight exp do they have in the game ?? as i really do doubt that their points are as valid and fair as more experienced players views. (yea read into those people that would say 1.2 aa was fair and perfect or even needed boosting rofl)

I agree with all of that, the F-18 is bad.. yeah, maybe worse than the J-10.... but come on... the maps with the F-18, if they are against chinese, there is a J-10 on the other side. So it is pretty balanced.


MOST popular maps, have the JSF vs J-10... and that's just the thing..

Really the only map I see having a problem, is where it's MEC vs USMC, where the US has the F-18. Like Kubra or something.


I think something needs to happen like what planewhore said... Make it so that you need to keep the reticule over the plane to maintain lock. And also, lower the locking distance, so you HAVE to get in closer, making it harder to follow, so that you have to know what you are doing to kill people.

The way it is now, these A2A missles are just bs... It's the J-10 mainly, but the F-18 also (for the people that play those maps and don't fly on US). The JSF is just at a huge disadvantage. There are really low ranking people that you know for a fact have barely any experience in the jet, and if they are in a J-10, and you are in a JSF, if they get lucky and somehow see you/get behind you, it's pretty much over if they get a solid lock. Sure, you can time your flares so that you wait until the missles are like halfway to you, and then send them out and make a turn, but that only makes 1-2 missles miss... most of these people just spam all 6 missles.. I mean.. wtf?


I think the missles need something done to them, and give a higher emphasis on cannon-work.

People argue that that isn't realistic, well hey, other people say, this is an arcade game... not a sim...

At least with cannons you have to actually lead the target, and get good at it.. it isn't that easy to kill someone.


All i'm saying, just balance the missles... the "hit-rate" I mean. Keep the manueverability as-is, but make it so that all missles will be equal for all jets. None of this **** where one jet is practically untouchable by the other jets missles, and the other jet, you can't miss it...

And another thing... Remember when they made it so that the "window" for locking on to another plane, got smaller? I think 1.2? Well they should make it even MORE small.

I just thought of something again...

On wake,

Why is it the J-10 spawns in 30 seconds and the JSF in ~1:10?

Why does the J-10 have a shorter time to lock on than the JSF?

[imported_Gue]

Re: Air to Air missile changes must be reverted.

I'm glad to see more disgruntled pilots who have come to the realization that DICE overpowered the Air to Air missile code to cater to newbie pilots.

Actually I believe they made the missiles more powerfull cos the jets were too overpowering. I could like have 150 - 0 score and it was getting a bit dull.
I am saying missiles indeed cos not many people realise that the A2A and AA missiles are the same.

So I'm thinking more towards changing the lock-on gameplay and jet characteristics. Making lock-on more skilled like then it would give a difference with ground AA defense and dogfighting. From the ground you're stationary which makes it easier to track.
And yes like someone pointed out above, only get hits when you keep the lock-on.

[imported_RpTheHotrod]

Re: Air to Air missile changes must be reverted.

You claim firing AA at planes now requires no skill.


Well, neither does killing as a plane. Going 100+ and no deaths is pretty fricken rediculous.

[zipp0r]

Re: Air to Air missile changes must be reverted.

You claim firing AA at planes now requires no skill.


Well, neither does killing as a plane. Going 100+ and no deaths is pretty fricken rediculous.

can you find that many people to kill whilst in a plane ? i doubt it... finding 100 people to kill takes some SERIOUS doing and isnt very common, so dont make it out like it happens for every pilot every time...

and pls tell me the skill in firing G2A missiles ? its done by the computer saying follow that plane with no intervention from you, bar pressing the button when u hear a beep tone.

[colony]

Re: Air to Air missile changes must be reverted.

That is of course only one small part of the equation, they then need to balance out the jet handling characteristics. I've yet to be shot down by another plane while in the J-10 since the 1.2 patch however plenty of J-10 have killed me while in crap aircraft like the F-35B.

Eh, im not really looking for the J10 maneuverability to be nerfed as much as I am looking for a proper way to effectively combat them instead of 6 missiles missing. If missiles were like 1.2(except for the ridiculous 180 degree angles) then I would have no complaints.

Just yesterday I had a game on Dragon Valley where I fired a total of 28 missiles at a single J-10 pilot over the course of a game (I counted them, sadly) and every single missed, I finally resorted to following this newbie with this cannons on bomb mode to kill them. He on the other hand caught me once at random from behind, fired 2 missiles at me, and both hit and destroyed me. I'm clearly the superior pilot yet he was able to shoot me down with ease. Fact is the airplanes are currently the most unbalanced aspect of this game right now. Hell I've played plenty of Gulf of Oman games and they all ended roughly the same with me shooting down the F-35B 10-20 times in a single game without dying once in the bomber, I mean for christ sakes what's wrong with DICE? I don't even bother flying the fighter on the map as even the bomber can out fly the sad little F-36B.

I have to disagree with the bomber/F35 situation. Its pretty easy to dominate on that map with an F35 against the Mig/Su34 as long as you know when to control your speed

[baggygreen]

Re: Air to Air missile changes must be reverted.

Anyone notice the return of Phen0m, making his brash yet lovable claims of nigh invincibility?? :) good to see you back mate.

Im not such a fan of the f35, it seems every time i jump in it no matter what i do i'm going to be shot down as soon as someone gets a lock. even playing on an empty server yesterday with another guy on Oman, any time he got on my tail i was toast, whereas i had to resort to guns to nail him. Its not right, and im talking 100% every time. 2 missiles follow me everywhere and turn right angles (i know cos i watched it in chase mode) then boom.

[MrBenis]

Re: Air to Air missile changes must be reverted.

Did you see the hitboxes for the F35b? Might as well be flying the Essex around, its that damn big.

[baggygreen]

Re: Air to Air missile changes must be reverted.

Did you see the hitboxes for the F35b? Might as well be flying the Essex around, its that damn big.

Nope, i cant read code. I steer clear of all those folders and whatnot in case i break something!

[XmetallicaXguitarstX]

Re: Air to Air missile changes must be reverted.

Anyone notice the return of Phen0m, making his brash yet lovable claims of nigh invincibility?? :) good to see you back mate.

Wtf are you talking about?