BF2 Netcode sucks at times [video clip proof]

**18Zulukiller** · 05-13-2006, 09:47 AM

Re: BF2 Netcode sucks at times [video clip proof]

Yeah its crap but some outside speacialst is supposed to be coming in to fix it (or improve it) for the next patch that dosnt work for Dice or EA. Personaly any improvment on the net code as it stands would be appreciated by me.

**IVfluids** · 05-13-2006, 09:52 AM

Re: BF2 Netcode sucks at times [video clip proof]

dont take those puffs of smoke as proof of hitting, that is a clientside animation that is not in sync with the server. Look for the hit detection thing that pops up around your crosshair, that is more true than the bullet impact animations.

**18Zulukiller** · 05-13-2006, 09:56 AM

Re: BF2 Netcode sucks at times [video clip proof]

IVfluids how is it client side when it was taken from a battlefield recorder which is server side ?.

**Leki** · 05-13-2006, 10:00 AM

Re: BF2 Netcode sucks at times [video clip proof]

Originally posted by IVfluids

dont take those puffs of smoke as proof of hitting, that is a clientside animation that is not in sync with the server. Look for the hit detection thing that pops up around your crosshair, that is more true than the bullet impact animations.

yes i know you can see smoke on client side but not server side sometimes but the poofs of smoke on this clip are from the server as this is the battlefield recorder file....and i was getting the hit idicator on my crosshair but that is not always right as i have had the hit idication on my crosshair while shooting a clan mate before but he said he lost no health.

Originally posted by 18zulukiller

Yeah its crap but some outside speacialst is supposed to be coming in to fix it (or improve it) for the next patch that dosnt work for Dice or EA. Personaly any improvment on the net code as it stands would be appreciated by me.

where did you get that info from? link?

**IVfluids** · 05-13-2006, 03:06 PM

Re: BF2 Netcode sucks at times [video clip proof]

Originally posted by 18zulukiller

IVfluids how is it client side when it was taken from a battlefield recorder which is server side ?.

BFR will play it back with it's own animations, not with the ones you were getting on the clientside. In BF2, demo quality is based on how much information it is going to sample, the higher they set it, the more samples it takes the bigger the file will be and the more overhead it will require out of the server. So I am not even entirely sure how accurate a BFR file is with what is actually happening on the server due to the fact that is just replaying the player/projectile positions based off of samples of those vectors and not really a streaming recording.

Best thing I could tell you to test the client side animations, is make a client side adjustment on the appropriate file and go into a non-pure server. Adjust your pov on the player model to be 10 units higher than normal, have a buddy stand on the other side of a solid fence from you (like the entrance to the city on Karkand from Coalition base). You will be able to see over the fence, you will even seemingly be able to shoot at him and you will see bullet impact animations on him, but he will never take a single point of damage from you and you will never see the X hit indicator. Then, download the BFR file and play it back, you will appear to be looking down at the ground and shooting the lower part of the fence.

I also did one where I took all the deviation out of the pkm while standing and gave him the file, to him, it looked like that thing was a sniper rifle no matter how much he moved, but to the other guys standing there watching him shoot the wall, it was all normal spread pattern. And it took roughly the same amount of shots from the same given distance to see how much it took to kill a buggy, they were within about 20 shots, where if he had no deviation that thing should have been smoked like he was shooting at it point blank. Oddly enough, to him, it looked like our pkms where more accurate also with the impact groupings on the wall.

I've done this before to explain it to a friend. Make sure you back up your files first if you attempt to replicate this. Do not start a local server up off your comp and test this, any changes you make to the file will become the real info to the local server.

This is also the reason a lot of pilots complain that they are hitting the enemies jet with the main gun but it isn't doing any damage when shooting a jet that is flying a bit perpendicular to them. They see the impacts, but nothing is happening, that is because in reality, they are not hitting the back of the jet, they are just barely missing it, they need to lead up a bit further.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think their netcode is the greatest either and I think it needs some improvement, but you can make your shots a lot more accurate if you understand it a little bit. Personally, I think animations should all be adjusted for based off your ping, ala UT99, at least with that game, when you shot, your projectile tracers didn't start displaying until it was in sync with your ping and you could get a small idea of how bad your ping was fluctuating.

Btw, that video is messed up though lol.

**WarGimp** · 05-13-2006, 03:16 PM

Re: BF2 Netcode sucks at times [video clip proof]

Originally posted by Leki

where did you get that info from? link?

I read the same thing from a couple sources... but can't recall exactly were or provide a link.

Sorry.

From what I remember, a codie type heavy hitter has been put in charge of this patch. I'll dig some more and see if I can't find a link/reference for ya.

EDIT: BTW, yeah there's defiantly some problems with non-reg hits. Knife hits that don't kill are the most obvious examples.

**pYura** · 05-13-2006, 03:29 PM

Re: BF2 Netcode sucks at times [video clip proof]

Yeah, crap I experienced the same last time: I headshot the guy with the G36E (3*3 burst) so a half clip into his head and he just shot me in the face... WTF I was standing 1meter from him, I'm 100% sure I didnt miss.

**IVfluids** · 05-13-2006, 05:46 PM

Re: BF2 Netcode sucks at times [video clip proof]

I did have a funny one with a friend on a USI server though, we were testing out accuracy of the guns. I shot at him with the sniper rifle, got no confirmation that I hit him, he saw a spat of blood pop out of him but took no damage (and he heard the hit). I was only 200m away.

they need to fix that sniper bug in that mod with the recoil though, otherwise it is a decent first release.

**newiq** · 05-14-2006, 04:03 AM

Re: BF2 Netcode sucks at times [video clip proof]

I just wanted to add to this thread that this is not proof of bad netcode. With this much information don't agree that your statements are true.

What we know is that the battlefield recorder records the game.
What we do not know is how the recorder behaves and is prioritized when compared with lack of a better term "acceptable gameplay performance" from the servers point of view. The information we have about this is very scarce, and it could quite possibly be so that the battlefield recorder is treated just like a regular client meaning it's recording won't be any better than your game. It could actually be a mini-client connecting and logging user action and direction.

Also, think about this scenario. If the recorder is a client and not an integral part of the server, it logs the actions of the players and the server response. It would then be reasonable that the recorder log and the actual event on the server could mismatch. This would then render the output you see in the video. I have a faint memory that Dice stated somewhere that the recorder is a log parser, and frankly I don't see any other sensible way of recording the game.

And with that said you can not eliminate either one of the following factors:
Network latency between client and server
Network stability between client and server
Server system load
Client system load

There are a couple of assumptions I'm going to make, which are according to my experience very common and is probably the best way of understanding your issues.

1. Your ISP guarantees best-effort and nothing more. This means that you could actually be having temporary or permanent network problems. Traceroutes and pingstatistics are ways of discovering basic problems like loss or latency increases. Consider the fact that icmp echos are often not prioritized at all. Simulating the protocol and sniffing the traffic would be optimal, but this method is very time consuming and requires indepth network skills.
2. The server has more load that it can handle. Many server administrators overestimates the performance of their hardware. I mean how often do you see a server in the list with a green clog-bar? The only time I see this happening is when the server reports that few of the slots available are taken (i.e x/64 slots taken when x ≈ 25% of available slots) What is the operating system reporting at the server side? High cpu/mem/network usage? How are the other players experiencing the game? Does this happen on a 1vs1 match?

Ugh, maybe I should read the entire thread before posting. Great post btw IVfluids :)

**18Zulukiller** · 05-14-2006, 04:37 AM

Re: BF2 Netcode sucks at times [video clip proof]

LoL way to technical for me i think i understand some of what your on about but from experience i know the hit detection compared to other games isnt that great. I know BF2 has way more things going on than normal games with all the vehicals and then the commander stuff aswell so that probewrly adds to the problem.

**Combined** · 05-14-2006, 05:24 AM

Re: BF2 Netcode sucks at times [video clip proof]

Hmm the way I see it, those "hits" that produce gray puffs of smoke but no damage are body armor hits, that are absorbed by the body armor. That's my RP explaination :laugh:

But yeah, I'm sure everyone has their fair share of war tales where they filled this guy full of lead and he just turned around unharmed to headshot you. Yesterday, I unloaded a full clip of an AK101 at a guy who was running in a straight line, he just went prone and got off two fatal shots. And the sad part is when he died, I didn't get a kill damage assist.

**AliasJay** · 05-14-2006, 05:28 AM

Re: BF2 Netcode sucks at times [video clip proof]

Tell you what ...dont need proof to know this games coded by people with a community college understanding of programming.

**old sch00l** · 05-14-2006, 05:35 AM

Re: BF2 Netcode sucks at times [video clip proof]

err. wasnt the deffinition of bad net code bf:V. after going from 1942 to bf:v is like playing special forces now, they the same house or something :/

bf2 ain't so bad, it aint brilliant either :p

**newiq** · 05-14-2006, 03:27 PM

Re: BF2 Netcode sucks at times [video clip proof]

Originally posted by 18zulukiller

LoL way to technical for me i think i understand some of what your on about but from experience i know the hit detection compared to other games isnt that great. I know BF2 has way more things going on than normal games with all the vehicals and then the commander stuff aswell so that probewrly adds to the problem.

Well, calculating and dishing out game-event/voip/recorder packets takes out it's toll on a server. So I think you're right on that part. I don't believe the hit detection is faulty unless PROVEN otherwise. As in a 1vs1 match on a overpowered server with both clients on the same load/lossless LAN trying to shoot eachother when standing still. Not trying to be rude, but this discussion feels like someone with a Ferrari asking why his car is behaving irrationally at 500km/h on a bumpy road.

So to make it short: Physics+64clients+underpowered hardware = people believing that the netcode is crap.

BF2 Netcode sucks at times [video clip proof]

BF2 Netcode sucks at times [video clip proof]

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