2 questions for computer gurus

[imported_rancid_elf]

Re: 2 questions for computer gurus

I am going to build a new computer soon.

1. Is the dual core CPU worth the extra money for gaming? I see how the hypertransport works, but if I am only running the one application (a game) will I see any speed improvement with a dual core over a standard CPU.

2. I plan to run dual 512MB video cards, but if for money reasons I downgrade, is there an advantage to running two 256MB cards over just a single 512?

Thanks for any help.

1.

If you have the money to spend then buy a dual core anyway as it will help with other windows applications.

For games it will not make any difference. Video games are all single threaded which means that only one execution pipeline. Maybe in the future games will run multi threaded but to be honest at the moment it is more trouble than it is worth. The current games I am writting run multi threaded because of the hardware platform they run on and its a pain in the rear.

2.

2 x 256 meg video cards will not be faster than a single 512 meg so do not listen to the other drivel people have said.

The simple fact is this. When running 2 video cards they both need the same textures in video memory as they will both render the same visuals.
If you load all textures into both cards then you are not benifiting you are wasting as you have effectivly only have the space for textures.
If you share the memory from teh video cards then you will find the cards will have to transfer texture data accross the pci-e bus and this is a lot slower than just having all the textures in single 512 meg memory.

I would suggest going for the x1900 and if you can afford it then buy 2 x
x1900 with a crossfire mobo.

I am sure there will be people flamming me for my comments on 2x 256meg cards as from what I see these people have read that in memory cases running dual 256meg is faster than a single 1/2 gig but this is conventional memory not video memory that needs to share this memory accross a pci-e bus.

If you want facts and figures I can supply these. As a grames programmer I have played around testing many possibilities.

[Princess_Frosty]

Re: 2 questions for computer gurus

I dont get it, why do people say SLI is rubbish cos you only get a small increase in performance, but they when questioned about it say "oh well only if you run on high settings do you see a decent increase"

Of course you do, who would buy an SLI system for extra frame rate when quality is not an issue, simply get 1 decent card and dump the settings down. SLI is for quality settings, everything maxed out, and the perofrmance increase under those circumstances is large, 70-80% for a lot of games.

[imported_rancid_elf]

Re: 2 questions for computer gurus

I dont get it, why do people say SLI is rubbish cos you only get a small increase in performance, but they when questioned about it say "oh well only if you run on high settings do you see a decent increase"

Of course you do, who would buy an SLI system for extra frame rate when quality is not an issue, simply get 1 decent card and dump the settings down. SLI is for quality settings, everything maxed out, and the perofrmance increase under those circumstances is large, 70-80% for a lot of games.

Well if I was you I would get an x1900xtx and just use that with a single core processor. You will be very happy with the quality and frame rate of that on most games.

I am currently running battlefield 2 on an x1800xt with a amd 64 4000+ and I get 100 frames a second on ultra_high settings ( everything full ).

I have ordered x1900's for crossfire to use for work purposes but thats another matter.

[Princess_Frosty]

Re: 2 questions for computer gurus

im not looking to upgrade my system is fine, im simply commenting on some of the other posts in this thread.

I have a 7800 GTX (256mb) and 64 4000+ and 2GB of RAM all overclocked

And i play in 1600 1200, 4xTSSSAA 8xAF with max settings, average of about 50fps

BF2 SF is another story i dumped that down to 1280 960 with only 4xAF and tured off dynamic shadows, 100 fps on most maps and 50fps average on night maps and the iron gator :P

This is on 64 player servers btw

[imported_El_m_ent]

Re: 2 questions for computer gurus

1.

If you have the money to spend then buy a dual core anyway as it will help with other windows applications.

For games it will not make any difference. Video games are all single threaded which means that only one execution pipeline. Maybe in the future games will run multi threaded but to be honest at the moment it is more trouble than it is worth. The current games I am writting run multi threaded because of the hardware platform they run on and its a pain in the rear.

2.

2 x 256 meg video cards will not be faster than a single 512 meg so do not listen to the other drivel people have said.

The simple fact is this. When running 2 video cards they both need the same textures in video memory as they will both render the same visuals.
If you load all textures into both cards then you are not benifiting you are wasting as you have effectivly only have the space for textures.
If you share the memory from teh video cards then you will find the cards will have to transfer texture data accross the pci-e bus and this is a lot slower than just having all the textures in single 512 meg memory.

I would suggest going for the x1900 and if you can afford it then buy 2 x
x1900 with a crossfire mobo.

I am sure there will be people flamming me for my comments on 2x 256meg cards as from what I see these people have read that in memory cases running dual 256meg is faster than a single 1/2 gig but this is conventional memory not video memory that needs to share this memory accross a pci-e bus.

If you want facts and figures I can supply these. As a grames programmer I have played around testing many possibilities.

Well, then you are a game programmer with crap in your ears, cause you have your head in a certain place that is berift of sunlight. Please do supply those numbers, I would truly like to see them.

First of all, you obviously don't understand the basics of SLI. The two cards do not share the memory as a pool, both cards have the exact same thing in each idividual memory bank. So essentially in a two 256 MB card SLI setup you have 256 Mb of video memory. Your speed increase comes from the fact that each card handles HALF the screen, top half for one and bottom half for the other. This is why in some poorly implemented games you can detect a faint line across the middle of the screen. This is also why at lower settings the performance gains are minimal. If you are not giving the card more to do than pretty much be a frame buffer between the memory and screen, then adding a second card also doing nothing makes no difference. But if you are crushing your graphics subsystem, the second processor provides large performance gains as indicated by the benchmarks people are refering to.


I did quite a bit of research before making my purchases, and that research along with actually having the cards and playing with them also certainly does not bear out what you are saying.

I play the game at max everything, which simply was not possible with a single 6800 ultra 512. I had to knock down dynamic lighting as well as the aa to make the game playable. I am after immersion, I am not trying to knock off BlazinUK with all the details turned off so I can better get a jump on people. I play for fun. So I bought the second 6800, which still did not alllow me to crank everything up. It seemed ok, but there was this weird parallax thing going on between the top and bottom of the screen that gave me headaches if I played for an hour or two.

So I got the 7800s and now I am happy with the performance. Just for $hit$ and grins, a friend of mine who is puzzling over the same thing brought over his512 Mb 7800gtx and we threw it in my box just to see what was what. I will tell you that it choked on the very same settings I use with my SLI and was unplayable. Thats the facts jack.

[machstem]

Re: 2 questions for computer gurus

I am going to build a new computer soon.

1. Is the dual core CPU worth the extra money for gaming? I see how the hypertransport works, but if I am only running the one application (a game) will I see any speed improvement with a dual core over a standard CPU.

2. I plan to run dual 512MB video cards, but if for money reasons I downgrade, is there an advantage to running two 256MB cards over just a single 512?

Thanks for any help.

First off, how much are you willing to spend? That should be your main concern.

If you want top of the line, and are willing to fork over the money, I will give you an extreme setup, something to make other geeks drool:

Motherboard: MSI/DFI/ASUS series motherboards, socket 939, SLi compliant: i.e. ASUS A8N-SLi Deluxe

Processor: 3800+ dual-core; minimum for dual core socket939

Memory: 2 x 1gb DDR400; I try and stick with either Kingston or Corsair. Corsair has a cheap but effective "value" kit for approx. 220$ CN (www.tigerdirect.ca)

HDD: 2 x 36gb SATA Raptor drives (10,000rpm) for extreme performance and/or 2 x 200gb SATA-2 Seagate drives (7200rpm) for mediocre performance

Videocard(s): 2 x nVidia 7800 GTX 512mb running in SLi mode; depending on your budget, they can run from 600$ to 900$ CN for one card. You can always stick with 2 x 7800GTX 256mb, but there is a very high performance increase between the 256mb and 512mb. I would also recommend dual ATI Radeon 1900 XT 512mb cards running on a ATI Crossfire chipset motherboard, but the technology is new. However, it blows away the competition, as shown on several sites.

Casing+cooling: Anything by CoolerMaster and/or Antec should suffice for a good case. You get a reliable Antec power supply with almost any encasing you buy, where-as Cooler Master only offers their PSU seperately. If you go for the latter, may I recommend their new fanless PSU running @ 680watts. They only spin their internal fan if/when it detects temperature rising beyong the threshold.

Monitor: LG 19inch 1980Q series; 6ms, 800:1 ratio (i think, don't quote me) and multi-pivot for complete adjusting. Great warranty, great monitor, top of the line for the price. You can also fork over a little more money for a 19-21inch Widescreen LCD, but most games still don't offer widescreen support; such as BF2 I wish they did, but they don't.

As for anything else, I mean, a great G5 or G7(wireless) laser mouse would do the trick, and any keyboard that can have backlit lights would come in handy. As for extras, you can always treat yourself to a sweet speaker set, I recommend either: Logitech Z-5450 or Z-5500

I'd also recommend a nice joystick: Saitek Cyborg Evo

The beauty about getting this type of system, is that it will surpass the usual "6month" period between your computer being obsolete. The 2gb of RAM is slowly becoming more popular, and dual-core, although not supported by most games, will play a big role in the overall perfomance of your PC, Windows, and other crucial components.

I guess you could always go Intel, but I'd rather stick with the best; dual-core AMD.

PEACE

[WiredEvolution]

Re: 2 questions for computer gurus

Does no1 read older replies?

GinzaDog has a 32" Samsung LCD HDTV so no need for SLI. His budget was originally $4000, he's waiting a month or two before purchasing.

peace.
G

[machstem]

Re: 2 questions for computer gurus

Does no1 read older replies?

GinzaDog has a 32" Samsung LCD HDTV so no need for SLI. His budget was originally $4000, he's waiting a month or two before purchasing.

peace.
G

The replies were a little long so I skipped through most of them.

4000$ budget, that's damn nice.

PEACE

[machstem]

Re: 2 questions for computer gurus

So I got the 7800s and now I am happy with the performance. Just for $hit$ and grins, a friend of mine who is puzzling over the same thing brought over his512 Mb 7800gtx and we threw it in my box just to see what was what. I will tell you that it choked on the very same settings I use with my SLI and was unplayable. Thats the facts jack.

I only quoted your last paragraph (head's up)

I run everything on maximum, I even went as far as tweaking the .con file for "ULTRA_HIGH" settings. I run it on a MSI 7800GT with 2 x 1gb of RAM, and it runs pretty flawless. I get random server lag, but all in all everything is maxed out and runs great.

I'm sure the GTX or GTX in SLi will perform better in benchmarking, but as far as the game performance, only the FPS will show up as being better. I'm content with an avg. of 70fps though.

PEACE

[WiredEvolution]

Re: 2 questions for computer gurus

@GinzaDog
You were asking about water cooled cases. If you don't want to build your own then you can choose from a large selection of pre-builds. The TT Tai-Chi and Lian-Li Koolance are widely available.

Otherwise choose a case (usually a CM stacker or 'full atx' Lian-Li) and stick a custom Danger Den kit in there.

VoyeurMods sell some more extreme and personalised options (if your budget allows it then go with them). Look to get a warranty though when choosing a brand / seller.

VoyeurMods -Water cooled cases
The voyeur-mods selections are all pretty extreme. You can really build a high performance case (and a big bill) that way. I'd advise on getting a Tai-Chi or Koolance (based) setup though. Sure you wont break world records in Overclocking but they will be good introductions and serve you well enough.

Lian Li Water Cooled PC-75 REV2


Lian Li Water Cooled PC-75



Stacker H2O


Lian-Li Koolance EXOS @Xoxide


ThermalTake TaiChi @Xoxide

*the Tai-Chi can cool your video and motherboard too. The screenshot is of the 'basic' setup. VoyeurMods has more info, and the TT website has the 411.

Lian Li Water Cooled V2000 H2O



peace.
gary

[Talus]

Re: 2 questions for computer gurus

Moved to hardware.