2 questions for computer gurus

[WiredEvolution]

Re: 2 questions for computer gurus

If you are thinking of getting the 7800GTX 512MB vid card, dont either wait for the new 7900GT/X or get the x1900XTX, they have 512 MB of RAM, are cheaper AND will/do perform better than the 7800GTX 512MB.

For anyone's information: the 7900 GTXs are (at best) rumoured to be launched end of February. Availability and price is open to further speculation.

Would this motherboard be a good one for opteron 146's? I thought I read somewhere it wouldn't be compatible but I'm not sure.

This would be for server/workstation/gaming station usage. I'm constantly running into CPU issues because of all the background proceses. I want the functionallity of dual cpu's but I have a low budget.

Did i miss something? What motherboard? FYI Opteron 146's are a single CPU system. They fit in Socket 939 motherboards. Best overclocking motherboards are DFI.

If you're talking about dual-core then get an X2 3800 and a socket 939 motherboard that suits your budget. DFI aren't for the feint-hearted though; Abit, ASUS and MSI are personal recommendations.

If you're talking about workstations then maybe create another thread as goof72 suggested. Workstation cpu recommendation would either be Opteron 165 (if you can find them!) or X2 3800. Last time I checked AMD had stopped selling dual-core Opterons to retail channels (they became too popular with the enthusiast market!). I would recommend Opteron 165 over 3800X2 if you are on a tight budget and building a workstation.

peace.
Gary

[topdogger]

Re: 2 questions for computer gurus

Would this motherboard be a good one for opteron 146's? I thought I read somewhere it wouldn't be compatible but I'm not sure.

This would be for server/workstation/gaming station usage. I'm constantly running into CPU issues because of all the background proceses. I want the functionallity of dual cpu's but I have a low budget.

The reason that post is here is because it is dirrectly related to the suggested product. It would benfit me and possibly benefit the topic starter.

I forgot the URL to the motherboard.

http://www.tyan.com/products/html/thunderk8sr.html

If that motherboard is compatible it would be a heck of a deal. Currently going for $350 CDN new on ebay(good seller).

[GinzaDog]

Re: 2 questions for computer gurus

I don't really have a budget at this time. I figure somewhere +/- $4,000

I also will not purchase for another month or two so things may shake out a little more by then regarding video cards and AMD pricing.

The CPU I was looking at was the AMD, I don't have my notes with me right now but it was just over $1,000.00.

From what I am seeing here though I think I will go single core and sink left over money into video card(s) and system memory.

So then, what about HDs? 10,000 rpm?, 7200 SATA, RAID? I read somewhere that RAID didn't show any performance boost on gaming and only really did it shine when running business apps.

Sorry for posting this here but, I like most, post here (in violation of the T.O.S.) because it is the most read and replied to forum.

Sorry admin :hmm:

[Sir. MatDef]

Re: 2 questions for computer gurus

I don't really have a budget at this time. I figure somewhere +/- $4,000

I also will not purchase for another month or two so things may shake out a little more by then regarding video cards and AMD pricing.

The CPU I was looking at was the AMD, I don't have my notes with me right now but it was just over $1,000.00.

From what I am seeing here though I think I will go single core and sink left over money into video card(s) and system memory.

So then, what about HDs? 10,000 rpm?, 7200 SATA, RAID? I read somewhere that RAID didn't show any performance boost on gaming and only really did it shine when running business apps.

Sorry for posting this here but, I like most, post here (in violation of the T.O.S.) because it is the most read and replied to forum.

Sorry admin :hmm:

If you're gonna spend a grand on a proc, just go fx-60, or an x2 4800+, both are as fast or faster than most single core amd procs, plus you get the added multitasking with the second core. As for hd's, get a single raptor 150 and you will be covered. Just remember,once you go dual core, you never go back.

[HicRic]

Re: 2 questions for computer gurus

Why not pick up a single 512mb card and then when you have enough money later, get another one for crossfire/sli?

[Red Ghost]

Re: 2 questions for computer gurus

Why the hell do people still consider getting two graphics cards, is it REALLY worth that much money for a small % gain in performance. You can look at all the benchmarks, the gain is very very small.

Just get the best processor you can afford, the most amount of RAM, and the best single graphics card. Easy.

[Hephaistion]

Re: 2 questions for computer gurus

Why the hell do people still consider getting two graphics cards, is it REALLY worth that much money for a small % gain in performance. You can look at all the benchmarks, the gain is very very small.

Just get the best processor you can afford, the most amount of RAM, and the best single graphics card. Easy.

Why don't you post your system specs and benchmarks? If you are unconvinced about the performance gains by SLI, show us your solution. Or are you just talking "out of school"?:|:

[topdogger]

Re: 2 questions for computer gurus

I personally would go with dual 256 meg cards, 2 single core opteron processors and 2-3 gigs of ram.

The motherboard I suggested could do this except for the processor I think.

That would be my suggestion. This way you have room to expand because the motherboard is compatible with dual core processors.

[WiredEvolution]

Re: 2 questions for computer gurus

SLI/blah
When you consider the money, power and extra heat involved SLI/Crossfire just isn't justified. Only at the extreme resolutions with extreme (4+) AA and AF does SLI/Crossfire offer big benefits.

Taking some benchmarks (average FPS on Battlefield2, 1600x1200, 4xAA, HighAF) from HardOCP we can see:

Single
7800gtx 54fps
7800gtx 59fps (512mb card)

SLI
7800GTX 64fps
7800GTX 71fps (512mb card)

Sure, 1920x1200 on my DELL 2405FPW looks nice. But 720p on my cousin's 32" HD LCDTV whoops my screen's ass and gaming experience. Resolution aint everything, and if you can think that way then you can avoid being ripped off for SLI. Having a single card power a HD LCD-TV is the best. Just a humble thought.

Anyway,
Being as you're waiting an extra month then you should only be interested in one graphics card: the 7900 GTX. It'll be a monster and should retail for $650. It's due end of February. If you can't wait for that then go for a 512mb 7800 GTX or the 1900 XTX, depending on your brand preference. Both cards perform similarly. Personally I recommend nvidia -better drivers and warranties.

Regarding your budget, well that's pretty big! So we can have some fun :)

Opteron 170 $415
DFI LANPARTY UT nF4 SLI-DR $195.99
2GB mushkin eXtreme Performance $229 ($199)
OR
2GB Corsair XMS 3500 (with the LED kit) $304
ANTEC TruePower II 550W PSU $84.99
COOLER MASTER CM Stacker $158.50
Raptor 74Gb $155 or Raptor 150gb $230
PLEXTOR Beige SATA DVD Burner Model PX-716SA/SW $110
Audigy 2 ZS $75
Graphics card: 1900 XTX or 7900 GTX $650.00
Logitech G5 mouse $48.50
Logitech G15 $69
DELL 2405FPW (shipped) $850

$3195 (thereabouts)

All that costs around $3200. That leaves you plenty of $$$ buy Windows XP Pro, cables and 3-4 silent 120mm fans (ThermalTake or Akasa 'Amber' series are recommended). You might want a fan controller such as the Cooler Master CoolDrive 4. That monitor 4 temps, controls 4 fans and cools your Raptor! It also quiets the raptor too.

IMHO spending the extra on the Raptor150 isn't worth it. Spend the difference on a second harddrive and put the pagefile on the slave. Or buy a 36gb Raptor for the pagefile and backups if you are after raw performance.

Speakers/headsets
Speakers/headphones is down to your personal preference. I'd advise against the Sennheiser headsets though. Unlike their excellent headphones their headsets feel very cheap.

Logitech speakers in my experience pwn the Creative ones. Personal preference though I guess.

Display
If you spend a lot of time in windows then I'd advise you get a DELL 2405FPW. It's a "good" screen for games and excellent for windows/apps. If you don't (spend time in windoze) then maybe consider a 32" or 37" HD-LCD TV. The lower resolution means you wont need a nuclear-powered graphics card array and the big screen and good timings will mean you get a really great gaming experience. 32" and 37" HD LCD TVs are pricey though (compared to a 24"DELL), but it's worth it. Also you wont need $1300 worth of graphics cards to power it because you'll (most likely) be running your games at 1280x720 (720p resolution). One $650 card will serve you for a long time.

Case
Personal preference... but I picked the Stacker cos it offers great expandibility and doesn't look gimmicky. There are also aluminum Cooler Master bezels you can buy for your DVD drives which look very trick.

Processor
I dropped the ludicrouslly priced FX-60, and recommended an Opteron 170. This allows you to trick out on PSU, Mobo and RAM. An Opty170 will overclock way past FX-60+ speeds. Some people hit 3ghz per core on water cooling. You will have FX-60 speeds and will save about $600! Use that saving and upgrade to a HD LCDTV. The Opterons overclock to sickening speeds, run cool and have the 1mb cores. With the DFI SLI-DR mobo and ANTEC PSU you will have the perfect platform to squeeze at least 2.6ghz out of each core.


peace.
gary


EDIT:

I forgot the URL to the motherboard.

http://www.tyan.com/products/html/thunderk8sr.html

If that motherboard is compatible it would be a heck of a deal. Currently going for $350 CDN new on ebay(good seller).
...
2 single core opteron processors and 2-3 gigs of ram.

The motherboard I suggested could do this except for the processor I think.

That would be my suggestion. This way you have room to expand because the motherboard is compatible with dual core processors.

TopDogger... dude I think you're off topic and maybe a little confused about the TYAN motherboard. Firstly, AFAIK GinzaDog is after a gaming rig, not a workstation. Your motherboard doesn't have AGP or PCI express, let alone SLI. TYAN make great workstation motherboards -but that's another topic.

FYI the tyan mobo to consider (IF you want a workstation mobo!) is the infamous TYAN K8WE. It's dual core ready, and has 2 PCIe 16x slots. Going that route though doesn't offer much benefit to games (not this or the next generation). Purchasing a K8WE and putting 2 Opteron 254 CPUs would be a smart move... but to be honest an overclocked Opteron 170 in a trick mobo (DFI) can perform very, very well. 2 CPUs is noisy and takes up a lot of power, especially if you have powerful cards.

Keep it simple if you can, stay single CPU and trick the hell out of it if your primary is playing and pwning games!

[GinzaDog]

Re: 2 questions for computer gurus

Wired,

PM sent thanks.

[openheimer]

Re: 2 questions for computer gurus

@ the guy who said SLI had little performance gain WTF are you smoking?????

I would also sugest the x32 boards for graphics performance. I would agree that stock cooling ain't gonna cut it... I am currently upgrading my liquid with a second radiator and a second pump.

When it comes right down to it its mostly personal preference and $

[CaptJordus]

Re: 2 questions for computer gurus

@ the guy who said SLI had little performance gain WTF are you smoking?????

I would also sugest the x32 boards for graphics performance. I would agree that stock cooling ain't gonna cut it... I am currently upgrading my liquid with a second radiator and a second pump.

When it comes right down to it its mostly personal preference and $

I dont think he was smoking anything.

SLI is no doubt, a performance bumper, however its generally at higher resolutions, and with every "eye candy" feature enabled does it really shine.

Someone posted a bench mark (from anandtech i think) on here awhile back about the 7800GTX, and it actually showed some situations where the SLI didnt perform as well as one card.

With all that said, it really comes down to asking yourself "Do i need to spend TWICE the amount (potentially 750$) for 10-15 more fps?"

Most people, will answer NO to that.

[Geekybiker]

Re: 2 questions for computer gurus

Skip dual core and dual video cards for the moment. Both are highly overated. The dual core does next to nothing for today's games, and the SLI cards you're generally better off just buying one of the top of the line than 2 cheaper ones. Only time its better is if you're using the top of the line cards for sli.

[WiredEvolution]

Re: 2 questions for computer gurus

SLI is no doubt, a performance bumper, however its generally at higher resolutions, and with every "eye candy" feature enabled does it really shine.
...
With all that said, it really comes down to asking yourself "Do i need to spend TWICE the amount (potentially 750$) for 10-15 more fps?"

Most people, will answer NO to that.

spot on CaptJordus!:salute:
Need for SLI = higher resolutions (1600*1200+) with extreme AA/AF.

All the more reason to think of getting a reasonably sized, fast and crisp LCD HDTV. It has a 'small' resolution (1366 x 768 @720P) so you don't need ludicrouslly priced/marketed cards and at that res you can quite comfortably run 2 or 4 AA with a mid-range card.

peace.
g

[imported_El_m_ent]

Re: 2 questions for computer gurus

Why the hell do people still consider getting two graphics cards, is it REALLY worth that much money for a small % gain in performance. You can look at all the benchmarks, the gain is very very small.

Just get the best processor you can afford, the most amount of RAM, and the best single graphics card. Easy.

Having done it both ways, I completely disagree. I started BF2 with a single 6800 ultra 512. Then went to dual 512s in SLI, and currently I am running dual 7800 GTX's @ 256Mb. The visual quality of the 7800's over the 6800's is very real, and I can run at much higher settings now and still be stable. I also urge you to go over to tom's hardware (an excellent and unbiased site) where they prove that 512 in SLI is actually slower than 256. It is a case of untapped potential; so few cards were made and sold it really isn't cost effective for nvidia to optimize their drivers properly. Here is the real problem; I had a hell of a time finding the second 6800 ultra 512 when I decided to go SLI. These cards are for show - comparitively speaking they don't make or sell a whole lot of them. I ended up paying way too much for it. For me, money is not really an object, so it wasn't that big of a deal. The power issues mentioned are real, I cooked a 450W and 500W power supply before buying a 600W BFG supply that seems to be holding up well. I think you are shooting a little high @ 4 grand. I'll bet 3000 is closer to the mark unless you are wasting your money on a gold plated alienware system or some such thing.

Good luck with it!