Forget 2 GB of RAM

[F-1]

Re: Forget 2 GB of RAM

The page file CAN be removed. Plain and simple, you do NOT have to use one. The only reason the machine would crash is if you needed to access more memory than RAM you have. Photoshop can load some insanely huge files. If you load up enough programs then yes, you can run out of RAM. What is the cause of that? That would lead to a USER ERROR....not a machine that is incapable. You need to know how to use your own machine. When I play games with no page file and 3 GB RAM, the only other programs running are ventrilo and antivirus. In this case no page file makes sense. If someone is doing video editing then a page file should be used. My computer is only used for gaming...not a single other thing because I have another machine for that. So why do I need a page file? There isn't a single reason to need one for this machine. You are correct with Photoshop....but if you are taking away the page file and using the machine for video/photo editing then you are an idiot. Those programs eat RAM like crazy.

If you had issues with photoshop and no page file then there is nothing wrong with the machine....just an incorrect configuration by the USER.

I tried that and you keep getting unexpected crashes in many programs even if you have enough memory. It is not recommended to sompletely turn off paging files, however you can reduce their size.

[Verzili]

Re: Forget 2 GB of RAM

well i agree with the keeping ur page file even if u got lots of ram,i live in a shared house and me m8 got 2gig of ram and he loads in 20 secs faster than me,i have 1280mb ram ddr400,my harddrive is split in to 3 segment one for windows one for swap file one for everything else,also defrag every week i do it 4 times in a row this helps the game run better,i also play everything on low and turn shadows off,extreme maybe but i like to get the best performance out of my pc.i do think that there isnt the perfect setup as there are lots of diffrent pc and configurations but ive tried 2gig and noticed 30-40 secs faster verifying when loading in to a map.

[sackynut]

Re: Forget 2 GB of RAM

Look at my sig, Im in the server before almost everyone! In every single game I play. Including bf2. I can tell by my performance that in bf2 2gig would improve me over my 1.5, but for now its fine!

[Gunny Highway]

Re: Forget 2 GB of RAM

Disabling the paging file isn't a goode idea. In fact you will use more RAM because of it.

When an application starts up it will ask allocation of Virtual Memory (VM) space. You can't stop Windows from using Virtual Memory!!

If there is a paging file, VM = RAM + pagefile

If there is no paging file, VM = RAM

That means that the VM area that an application asks for now HAS to come from RAM, even if it doesn't need it yet, and thus it will use more RAM.

For everyone that thinks disabling ( or even lowering the pagefile below the amount of RAM) go read this:

http://www.tweakhound.com/xp/xptweaks/supertweaks5.htm

And read the 3 articles that are linked to in the first 3 lines of the article.
If you feel like you don't need to read it, then remain in ignorance.

tfarre211, I don't understand your logic.

You say you went from 1.5 to 3.0 and say that it is better than 2. Later you say you haven't tried 2 GB.

So in fact you have no comparison with 2 GB vs. 3 GB, and no basis to say which is better. I'll bet if you tried there would be no difference.

Windows uses uses 2 GB for User allocation and 2 GB for OS allocation of the 4 GB VM.
So unless you told your OS (in boot.ini) to explictly allocate 3GB for User portion of VM then you have only 2 GB to do with, even if you have 3 GB in your PC.

[Sloi sauce]

Re: Forget 2 GB of RAM

I just finished testing my box after putting in my new 2GB of Corsair TwinX and I can attest to the difference. Succintly put, it's night and day!

- Seriously reduced load times (including a reduction in the verifying of client files)
- No loading while in-game (ie. no stuttering or complete loss of control for seconds while the HDD catches up)
- First or second in server after a new map load

It's great, especially for people who spend the majority of their playtime in the air...

[canadacow]

Re: Forget 2 GB of RAM

yeah, i have 512 mb of ram, a Geforce 5500 PCI (not express) video card, I'm playing with a friends copy of BF2, with my pentium 4 and CRT monitor. If people could play BF2 cheaper than that I'd be impressed. It takes me usually 5+ minutes to load a map, not to mention all the start up shudder, (sidenote: if i can look around fast and theres is no more shudder I'm usually good to go) I envy you guys with your 7800's, 20 inch lcds and AMD 64 3800's but I only have like $700 (Canadian) so I'm shooting for a AMD 3200, Nvidea 6600, maybe a dvd drive (if not probably just emulate)

[t1337Dude]

Re: Forget 2 GB of RAM

Hey, I just put together my new computer, I have two 512 DDR400 Kingston sticks and 1x1024 DDR400 Corsair stick, but they are running at DDR333 (Atleast I *think*, anyway I can check/comfirm?).

[Gunny Highway]

Re: Forget 2 GB of RAM

Hey, I just put together my new computer, I have two 512 DDR400 Kingston sticks and 1x1024 DDR400 Corsair stick, but they are running at DDR333 (Atleast I *think*, anyway I can check/comfirm?).

If you have a pre-Venice or pre-San Diego core AMD 64, then using 4xRAM modules (and probably 3x) will cause DDR400 to run at 333MHz. The new versions of AMD 64 don't have this problem. (better memory controller)

[gungho]

Re: Forget 2 GB of RAM

I'm confused how tfarre211 can say "Forget 2 GB of RAM" when he went from 1.5 to 3 If he didn't try 2, then how can he say its not enough ???

[Gunny Highway]

Re: Forget 2 GB of RAM

I'm confused how tfarre211 can say "Forget 2 GB of RAM" when he went from 1.5 to 3 If he didn't try 2, then how can he say its not enough ???

Exactly

[tfarre211]

Re: Forget 2 GB of RAM

Disabling the paging file isn't a goode idea. In fact you will use more RAM because of it.

When an application starts up it will ask allocation of Virtual Memory (VM) space. You can't stop Windows from using Virtual Memory!!

If there is a paging file, VM = RAM + pagefile

If there is no paging file, VM = RAM

That means that the VM area that an application asks for now HAS to come from RAM, even if it doesn't need it yet, and thus it will use more RAM.

For everyone that thinks disabling ( or even lowering the pagefile below the amount of RAM) go read this:

http://www.tweakhound.com/xp/xptweaks/supertweaks5.htm

And read the 3 articles that are linked to in the first 3 lines of the article.
If you feel like you don't need to read it, then remain in ignorance.

tfarre211, I don't understand your logic.

You say you went from 1.5 to 3.0 and say that it is better than 2. Later you say you haven't tried 2 GB.

So in fact you have no comparison with 2 GB vs. 3 GB, and no basis to say which is better. I'll bet if you tried there would be no difference.

Windows uses uses 2 GB for User allocation and 2 GB for OS allocation of the 4 GB VM.
So unless you told your OS (in boot.ini) to explictly allocate 3GB for User portion of VM then you have only 2 GB to do with, even if you have 3 GB in your PC.

I've got a friend with a machine with the same specs so we used that as a rough comparison. It is not my exact machine so I don't have a red apples to red apples comparison, just a red apples to green apples comparison. Yeah, stupid analogy, but eh. And yes, I did edit my boot.ini with a /3GB switch. And you are correct again, disabling the page file does require more RAM. Yes programs ask for more memory than they may actually need. But given my specific situation it works great for me. This machine is a gaming machine only....nothing else. I've got other machines for my normal work. I believe that my particular setup benefits from no page file. If you had a machine that were to run windows and only a game, the page file wouldn't benefit you. If you were surfing the net, using photoshop, doing actual work then yes, a page file makes a huge difference because you can run out of RAM fast. I've got another machine that has an HP monitor that sometimes jumps from 20 MB up to 400 MB and that would possibly crash a system with no page file if it's maxed out. But I use a page file on that system b/c it is unexpected what I may run on it.

You are correct with everything you've said. I feel that most users fit into what you are saying. There are some people out there that have separate machines for uses and for a gaming only one then I believe no page file can make a huge difference.

Microsoft is correct in not wanting to remove the page file. It places a huge assumption on the fact that you have enough RAM. If you asked me then I would guarantee you that I would never take the page file off of a server or a machine at a company.

[-(PK)-DarkIllusion]

Re: Forget 2 GB of RAM

i got 1 gig, i get some lag, but meh.. i live wit it.

[Gunny Highway]

Re: Forget 2 GB of RAM

I've got a friend with a machine with the same specs so we used that as a rough comparison. It is not my exact machine so I don't have a red apples to red apples comparison, just a red apples to green apples comparison. Yeah, stupid analogy, but eh. And yes, I did edit my boot.ini with a /3GB switch. And you are correct again, disabling the page file does require more RAM. Yes programs ask for more memory than they may actually need. But given my specific situation it works great for me. This machine is a gaming machine only....nothing else. I've got other machines for my normal work. I believe that my particular setup benefits from no page file. If you had a machine that were to run windows and only a game, the page file wouldn't benefit you. If you were surfing the net, using photoshop, doing actual work then yes, a page file makes a huge difference because you can run out of RAM fast. I've got another machine that has an HP monitor that sometimes jumps from 20 MB up to 400 MB and that would possibly crash a system with no page file if it's maxed out. But I use a page file on that system b/c it is unexpected what I may run on it.

You are correct with everything you've said. I feel that most users fit into what you are saying. There are some people out there that have separate machines for uses and for a gaming only one then I believe no page file can make a huge difference.

Microsoft is correct in not wanting to remove the page file. It places a huge assumption on the fact that you have enough RAM. If you asked me then I would guarantee you that I would never take the page file off of a server or a machine at a company.

You are right, with the fact that multitasking is where you need it most, in the sense it will be in these kind of conditions where you actually can run out of RAM and where you see an actual error because of it.

The issue is more IMO, that Windows actually depens on VM and pagefile, it is just how it operates. For that reason I keep it enabled. It is what goes on in the background, that you don't notice (not like out of memory error), I was thinking about.

I use my PC for gaming mostly too, but not solely, and I doubt there will any noticable difference in performance during gaming with or without a paging file, and again I see no reason why not to have it enabled.

I've actually tried running out of VM, and this is with 2 GB, where I tested the effect of no paging file.
This wouldn't happen under gaming conditions, and not with BF2, I think the most I used was 1.6 GB (when no page testing).

Many of these things can't be tested by just playing and thinking you see and increase or decrease in performance. Often we fall for the placebo effect where we want it to be faster or better and think it is.

[abtomat74]

Re: Forget 2 GB of RAM

Certain maps in BF2 use more ram...

The most ram I have seen my machine use while playing BF2 was around 1750mb including the O/S and whatever else I have at startup(which is the minimum). I have a very clean system.

That means I had less than 300mb leftover. The guy saying 1.5 is enough is "slightly" incorrect. Two is the majic number for BF2 as 1700+ used is clearly more than the 1500 mentioned by that guy.

Going over 2 does not help anything except maybe load times. Because nothing uses it...yet. Last year(2004), nothing used 2 gigs(over 1 specifically). Yea I know last year was '05...but you know what I mean. Also, I am talking about games only.

Many people agree anything over 1 gig is a waste...if it weren't for BF2 and one other well known game, they would be correct.

There is no reason other than running a dedicated server...to have more than 2gigs of ram...PERIOD.

[imported_Claydough]

Re: Forget 2 GB of RAM

Well i seen a 15 gb but that was a big thingy in a office building