Thompson Pushes for Legal Action Against Retailers

[Ryosuke T]

"Further, indictments should be handed down against Wal-Mart, Best Buy, GameStop, and all other retailers distributing this game to minors at their retail stores, openly, to kids who are only seventeen."



Minors under age would probably now be having hard time buying these games since they are enforcing the age system. I'm 22 and I was carded when buying COD4 at Best Buy. Hahahaha.



ESRB rates the game 17+ so I don't think there should be any problem with that.



Sony and Microsoft ain't gonna even sweat. They'd probably laughing their ass out drinking liquor.

[Zips]

jollesonn wrote..

Sure, it's the parent's fault, because here in the United States everyone is held accountable. How many evenings did you spend thinking that up? It's a simple dismissal if ever there was one.

What are you getting at? It IS the parents fault if this happens. Stores are not legally allowed to sell to those under X age for various titles. Some smaller mom and pop places might not always adhere to this, but they're few and far between anymore.



If the stores are doing their part, who else is to blame? The guardian. If they don't know what their kid is playing or what this game is when they buy it for them, they're at fault.

[ALT+F4]

Edited by [user="3356"] @ [time="1209485760"]

"I guess he just doesn't realize that these games never were, nor ever will be marketed to minors? Nor does he understand that these retailers already have age restriction guidelines set up by the ESRB and that they are already not allowed to sell to minors.



If a game like this ends up in the hands of an 11 year old, it's the fault of another person who doesn't know any better."



You're living in a dream world, my friend. First-line defense, i.e. the law, is rarely sufficient deterrent and essentially a technicality and a joke. See also drugs; alcohol; guns.



I don't believe in censorship but the outright cynicism amd mercenary greed with which these titles are designed and marketed is increasingly nauseating. Once you get a little older, wiser and more mature you'll start to realize stuff like this.



In the mean time, Party On, Wayne!

[Zips]

ALT+F4 wrote..

I don't believe in censorship but the outright cynicism amd mercenary greed with which these titles are designed and marketed is increasingly nauseating. Once you get a little older, wiser and more mature you'll start to realize stuff like this.

And yet, none of these games are ever marketed to minors still. So, go on...

[Sintra]

Zips wrote..

And if they enter an 11 year old's hands, it's the fault of the parent or gaurdian. No store in the US is legally allowed to sell the games to those under age.



At the midnight launch that I was at last night, EVERYONE was carded, everyone. Myself, older looking adults, and the obvious ones that didn't look old enough. That is all that can be done. Signing a waiver is extreme and doesn't give you any more protection than checking an ID does. You'd just be wasting everyone's time with that nonsense.



If a game like this ends up in the hands of an 11 year old, it's the fault of another person who doesn't know any better.

This pretty much sums it up.

Kids are supposed to play games their age. When that doesn't happen it's the parents' fault (for either buying the game, or letting the kid accept the game from somebody else).

[Linux]

Edited by [user="168813"] @ [time="1209491074"]

Thortok2000 wrote..

Yes, there's protections in place.



No, they're not strong enough.



You know how it's illegal to buy alcohol for the purposes of giving to a minor, and that you can go to jail for it? (With the exception of for your own kid...and that's monitored by social services.)



The same thing should apply to mature video games. First off, it should be illegal to buy the game for the purposes of giving/selling to a minor, unless it is your own child. And secondly, social services should be aware of when adults are buying games for their children, as a signal that they may need to be more involved. Keyword "may."



Buying the game should require that you sign a waiver, along these lines:



"This is a pornographic, adult-natured game, and I hearby declare that I will keep it out of the presence of unrelated persons under the age of 18. I acknowledge that failure to do so may result in jail time and fines of up to $5,000."



And require that you sign that waiver and keep a copy for yourself and for the store, in order to purchase the game.



Something along those lines. I'll repeat myself: Again, I defend the right of the games to exist, but if they enter a single 11 year old's hands, that's one 11 year old too many.

There a bunch of companies that check I.D. before buying games... But that doesn't do stuff. And I would refuse to sign some stupid a** paper that gives up all my rights to buy a game that isn't right for someone that isn't 18.

Also think about this people... 18 might be what the government\state\whoever... wants to complain that your an adult, well I call that bs... Because not everyone is as smart as the next person, let along know the differences between a game and real life. Not everyone will know that shooting people in real life you don't respond. So signing a paper saying I waive all rights goes against my rights in the U.S.A. If I want to buy a game for someone under the age of 17 (Mature Rating....), I damn will do it as long as they know the difference between real life and the game.

Sintra wrote..

This pretty much sums it up.

Kids are supposed to play games their age. When that doesn't happen it's the parents' fault (for either buying the game, or letting the kid accept the game from somebody else).

I don't agree. Not everyone mature as fast as everyone else. Sometimes a 15year old knows more about little things in life than someone that is 20+ and been playing these games. The rating is there just for parents to make the judgement, and if the parent believe and has talked to they're child and explained things I don't see what is so wrong with the game... Many, games come with parental control for time setting, gore, sense, etc.... And many parents use it...

[Renegade[CSR]]

Can someone please tell this man to retire and give up? This is just getting borderline retarded.



Hes advertising the game more than anything else, and probably increasing sales at this point, which I guess isn't entirely a bad thing, but doesn't that mean more kids will play it in turn?



Ugh....

[ALT+F4]

Zips wrote..

And yet, none of these games are ever marketed to minors still. So, go on...

Nor are sex, cigarettes, alcohol or firearms and yet...



I'm not arguing against the game itself, nor for the hysterics of Mr. Thompson, but the fact remains that minors make up a substantial portion of the gaming market and they're going to want to play what's hot and new whether it's marketed overtly to them or not.



If you think Rockstar doesn't expect -- or even depend on -- sales to minors, well... again, Zips and Dream World -- BFF.

[Kotae]

^ Majority of the gaming populace is actually getting older, but anyways.



There are restrictions in place for minors, but those restrictions have to be followed by everyone involved - stores, parents, minors. The ESRB is a guideline, not regulation (although laws were put in place..and oh god, just go with it) - which, sadly, people don't seem to want to follow.



Honestly, I think signing waivers would be a huge waste of time, and a needless thing to do. People just need to be educated about the ratings, and to keep an eye on what their children are playing. That, and teach them the difference between reality and fiction. I grew up playing "violent" (are Doom and Quake really all that violent? meh) games, as well as watching horror and action films. I was taught a difference, and what I played and watched was dictated by my parents (but thanks, dad, for letting me basically watch whatever :v).



To put it simply, minors are advertised to - whether intentionally or not, they are. GTAIV wasn't directly advertised to minors, but just like cigarettes, they are subtly advertised by the ability to see the posters, the commercials, the billboards. It is in everyone's view.



And also, to whomever said that there is no connection between video games and violence - there is a bit. Playing violent games and what not cause arousal in the brain, and just like anything else, people like to imitate what they see. Video games are not a direct cause, but there is a link - just as there is a link between movies and violence, and peers and violence, and family and violence.



[edit] Also, there was action taken against JT that made it so that he couldn't file suits himself. He has to get someone else to do it. At least, I remember that being the case.

[sathanas]

Whether Jack Thompson ever says anything meaningful I will never know. When he rants about how Rockstar are the Nazis and how GTA 4 is a polio outbreak, I just can't take a word he says seriously.



I've argued that parents are responsible for what their kids play so many times that I'm not even going to bother today.

[Thortok2000]

In my waiver suggestion, I specifically said unrelated people under 18. That specifically allows for parents to allow their kids to play, or legal guardians of course. In another comments thread I've mentioned how the age of maturity does not have a specific number.



The idea is that the act of signing a waiver ("What the heck, what is this waiver anyway? Why do I have to sign a waiver about a video game??") alerts the stupid who have children that this is a mature rated video game. Carding simply doesn't cut it. Also, 'just' carding means there's no fines or jail time for people who allow this game into the hands of kids who aren't their children.



"Mom, I want Grand Theft Auto IV". "Okay Jack." Mom goes to store, buys the game, gets carded, goes home, gives game to son. No waiver.



With waiver: "Mom, I want Grand Theft Auto IV". "Okay Jack." Mom goes to store, starts buying the game. "Sign this." "What? Why?" "Because this is an extremely violent game." "Oh, no way I'm getting this for my kid." Buys the Sims instead. And in a perfect world, kid gets over the disappointment quickly while mother teaches the kid right and wrong. Etc.



The whole point of the waiver idea is to educate the people buying the game and hold them responsible for their actions. Zips keeps saying "if they don't know what the game is" or "don't know any better"...this is to make sure they know better, and make them suffer consequences if they don't absorb the knowledge.



You fine enough people and put enough people in jail for the crime of 'not knowing any better' after signing a waiver specifically designed to make sure they know better, and soon enough the waiver won't be necessary to remind people of the consequences of their actions.

[Zips]

Jesus... you can still avoid the waiver junk if the person selling the game makes it known to the buyer what the content is. You're taking this to ridiculous extremes for no reason.



Not to mention, it's not the store's responsibility to care just who is going to play the game so long as the person buying it is of legal age to do so. If the person buying it doesn't know any better, they should kick themselves for it.

[ALT+F4]

Thortok2000 wrote..

You fine enough people and put enough people in jail for the crime of 'not knowing any better' after signing a waiver specifically designed to make sure they know better, and soon enough the waiver won't be necessary to remind people of the consequences of their actions.

Wow, talk about Nazis ... you don't work for the RIAA and the MPAA as well, do you? Jesus fuck, man.



(Or were you kidding? It's really hard to tell.)

[Zips]

Source - http://kotaku.com/385459/rockstar-makes...jack-thompson



-facepalm-

[ALT+F4]

I just watched the linked Ladies of Liberty City video and I need to know: Was that supposed to make me want to play the game or show me how utterly vacant it is?