Newell: In-Game Ads Are Good

@Pharlap - I can't answer that on this site.



But were one to search, one would probably find.

Thortok2000 wrote..

@Pharlap - To my understanding there's client-side hacks to hide all the ads, including the scoreboard ones.

w00t. any hints as to where i can get em??

-:Nighthawk:- wrote..

Just wanted to comment on this one point for now.



If the ads don't affect anything, then how come I never play on my old CS1.6 favorite servers anymore? A number of servers out there that provide a good, quality experience and solid community have options available to help with their server costs via paypal, in exchange for limited admin or reserved slots or whatever. Am I going to pay for a reserved slot in a server where I no longer wish to play due to the game experience being raped by in-your-face advertising?



Additionally, VALVe's ability to get an advertising campaign going is solely reliant upon this community of independent server ops, and there would be no revenue base without these server ops paying to host VALVe's game. It is perhaps excusable for VALVe to not pay these admins if VALVe is not directly earning a returning revenue stream from their actions, but now that they are, the situation has changed.



You can make the "it's client-side" argument, but the client side does nothing at all without the server-side being provided. CZ effectively proved that the community that wants to play CS by themselves against bots is very small indeed. Willingly or not, the server ops are providing the advertising delivery by facilitating clients to play in the first place, thus the client-side/server-side debate is really just a creative way of VALVe trying to shirk their financial responsibility to server ops.



Of course, I say "financial responsibility" in an ethics sense, not in a legal sense, and we know which route VALVe takes with such things.

If you're hosting on a dedicated server, the owners of the servers aren't entitled to a cut of anything. They run the servers for whatever reason, it was never a money making venture to begin with. At least, it shouldn't have been, and if it was they can continue to make money however they were before.



The ads are client side. Dedicated servers are in no way entitled to something people are running on their own machines. And if the clients themselves don't want to deal with the ads, then Condition Zero is out there ad free, as is CS: Source or any other game if they want to quit CS completely.

@Pharlap - To my understanding there's client-side hacks to hide all the ads, including the scoreboard ones.

And this begs the question: Why hasnt anybody decompiled+recompiled an exact version of dust2/aztec without the ads? i dont see them on other custom maps, so they seem to be built into the map intself. if theres such a backlash it wouldve been done days after the ads came out. looks like 99% dont give a shit

My GamesIndustry-unlinked open letter is here:



http://www.dot-brain.com/2007/05/14/an-...d-its-future/



In the end Tom managed to have it properly reported on Eurogamer. I guess the issues listed were a bit too hairy for GI.biz...

Just wanted to comment on this one point for now.

The question also came up that asks why server ops shouldn't deserve a cut. Beyond the reason that Mr. Newell provided, I'd just like to point out that if you have a dedicated server, the ads don't affect anything. All ads are done client side and have no impact on the server.

If the ads don't affect anything, then how come I never play on my old CS1.6 favorite servers anymore? A number of servers out there that provide a good, quality experience and solid community have options available to help with their server costs via paypal, in exchange for limited admin or reserved slots or whatever. Am I going to pay for a reserved slot in a server where I no longer wish to play due to the game experience being raped by in-your-face advertising?



Additionally, VALVe's ability to get an advertising campaign going is solely reliant upon this community of independent server ops, and there would be no revenue base without these server ops paying to host VALVe's game. It is perhaps excusable for VALVe to not pay these admins if VALVe is not directly earning a returning revenue stream from their actions, but now that they are, the situation has changed.



You can make the "it's client-side" argument, but the client side does nothing at all without the server-side being provided. CZ effectively proved that the community that wants to play CS by themselves against bots is very small indeed. Willingly or not, the server ops are providing the advertising delivery by facilitating clients to play in the first place, thus the client-side/server-side debate is really just a creative way of VALVe trying to shirk their financial responsibility to server ops.



Of course, I say "financial responsibility" in an ethics sense, not in a legal sense, and we know which route VALVe takes with such things.

Diamond Dust wrote..

1. I never said that I think valve is doing a good job with the ads, you stated "ads are horrible". I was pointing out exaples where they fit.



2. CS source isn't a sequel it's a half-assed attempt at improving graphics and physics. Thats why they are making CS2 (hopefully).

Meh, ads are ads, you are not being payed to play the game nor forced to, quit anytime you would like people :). You quit = hurt for Valve.

CS2 will be the next attempt at making CS w\ grphiacs + physics + games play?

icemanz-alb wrote..

1: Well, according to your first point, you disapprove of the implementation of the ads due to their obvious fact that they REALLY FUCKING STAND OUT since a poster for "Smokin' Aces" doesn't belong anywhere in a random Aztec or Middle-Eastern setting...



2: Yes... "improve" :cough:'Counter-Strike': Source:cough::cough::cough:

1. I never said that I think valve is doing a good job with the ads, you stated "ads are horrible". I was pointing out exaples where they fit.



2. CS source isn't a sequel it's a half-assed attempt at improving graphics and physics. Thats why they are making CS2 (hopefully).

ET advertised reeses pieces. Or was it M&M's? In any case, it was part of the story.



I didn't make it sound like a new thing, I just said it had to reach that point. Advertising in movies didn't start out that way.

Thortok2000 wrote..

In movies, the advertising has reached the point that it's called 'product placement'.

You make it sound like its a new thing.

In movies, the advertising has reached the point that it's called 'product placement'. This is a form of advertising I don't mind.



If they would do a similar form of advertising in games, I wouldn't mind that either.



In your face, you can't ignore me, I don't belong here, I'm not going away and there's no way you can get rid of me, so just suffer and be annoyed...THOSE kinds of ads...



I'm just not going to play the game when ads like that are there. Period.

First off, if ad revenue goes to subsidizing riskier, more independent games / mods, then I'm all for it. In fact, even if the ads just went straight into Gabe's pocket I really wouldn't care. I don't understand what the whole to-do is about the ads. Subliminal, subconscious manipulation? Who cares, we get that every single day walking around the real world.



As for TF2, I think it looks great. The TFC die-hards can have Fortress Forever. I can't wait to play the medic.

Diamond Dust wrote..

I think ads in the right places are perfectly fine. As long as it fits the environment and doesn't distract (think GTA if the ZIP store was a GAP, that wouldn't change anything, hell it being ZIP and looking like the gap logo was distracting). Look around your house or your workplace, there are plenty of products around that would be considered ads in a game. If they are going to force ads on us in the form of billboards places on walls and logo's stuck to stat screens, then I would expect some kind of discount.



I love the idea, the first thing they want to do is make the classes unique, I was always pissed off when the choke points just turned into nade spam contests. No more nades = more unique class play styles. TF2 doesn't need to be TFC with different graphics...you can always play TFC. The point of making a sequel to a multiplayer game is to improve upon the previous title.

1: Well, according to your first point, you disapprove of the implementation of the ads due to their obvious fact that they REALLY FUCKING STAND OUT since a poster for "Smokin' Aces" doesn't belong anywhere in a random Aztec or Middle-Eastern setting...



2: Yes... "improve" :cough:'Counter-Strike': Source:cough::cough::cough:

icemanz-alb wrote..

"..." @ this interview. Ads are horrible.

I think ads in the right places are perfectly fine. As long as it fits the environment and doesn't distract (think GTA if the ZIP store was a GAP, that wouldn't change anything, hell it being ZIP and looking like the gap logo was distracting). Look around your house or your workplace, there are plenty of products around that would be considered ads in a game. If they are going to force ads on us in the form of billboards places on walls and logo's stuck to stat screens, then I would expect some kind of discount.

appended @ [time="1179469888"]

omgomgz wrote..

Let's move on to more important issues: Removing grenades from TF2 is a disgrace, let's discuss that.

I love the idea, the first thing they want to do is make the classes unique, I was always pissed off when the choke points just turned into nade spam contests. No more nades = more unique class play styles. TF2 doesn't need to be TFC with different graphics...you can always play TFC. The point of making a sequel to a multiplayer game is to improve upon the previous title.