Outlook: Not so Good

[entRo]

FlyingMongoose wrote..

So do you people really want to go back to that? Because I honestly don't. I look forward to change, it's why I'm a huge fan of custom maps. It's why I love the changes in the game so far, because when I go to work, day in and day out, I deal with the same stuff, all the time, yes it's the same game when I come home, but I like to do something different now and again, and if I can do that within the game I know and love, all the better.

Your argument is that because most change has been good, that ALL change must be good. Honestly, some of it is just bad, and Valve is admittedly fallible in some instances (the 1.4 voice com thing, riot shield, etc.).



The thing with the past changes is that many of them were asked for. People bitched about bunnyhopping, and though I was a fan of it at the time, I can't stand playing on servers that have it enabled now and couldn't imagine going back. People bitched about the auto-snipers, and they were tuned up. I don't think they're too good, as they're still expensive as fuck and mostly useless, but whatever.



Who asked for a riot shield? Who asked for Dynamic Weapon Pricing? We're asking for a shit load of things, but Valve wants to make their games into experiments rather than.. games. DoD:S? What's up with that cinematic crap that no one asked for? It was an excuse for Valve to test out some cool new technology, that's it.



It could be argued that CS:S itself was just an excuse for Valve to play with its new engine. Thankfully, the experiment isn't wholly shitty, but I'd hardly call it a success (this coming from someone who has long since uninstalled 1.6 and plays CS:S competitively).



We're asking for them to fix bugs that have been around for years. We're asking that physics objects don't shove us around, and that we be able to interact with them in a way that makes sense. It's surely possible, as it works just fine in HL2DM and its mods. If Valve would work on the areas of CS:S that actually need work (not shitty cs_ maps, not ridiculous bots that populate and ruin half of all servers, not DWP), it'd be an absolutely awesome game.



Change for the sake of change is not always good. Innovate where necessary, not as a method of one-upping the competition. But what else would we expect from a corporate entity?

[FlyingMongoose]

Edited by [user="59887"] @ [time="1163898196"]

All in all, lack of popularity of custom maps, and people who refuse to play anything but dust2 has made me want to stop playing.



If I could I'd play competitively, but I don't have access to my own PC as I've brought it to what will soon be my workplace when I open up my own business w/ a friend.



In fact, I prefer competitive play, playing with competent people is way better than pubbing it.



Let me give the rundown of maps I hate: over popularized maps, fy_ maps, aim_ maps, and any other style of custom map that has no true objective/goal (killing the other team doesn't count). Why? Because when I did have the time to play competatively, whenever the team I was on would play/practice, we never practiced strategy, we just sat in FY maps and AIM maps, and eventually it got really annoying.



I'm not saying all change is good, I'm stating that change is necessary, and being open to change is something that people need to be. This is a problem that exists beyond the world of Counter-Strike, but I don't want to get into philosophy and politics.



And I also stated that for systems to be perfected they have to be truly tested. Without the mass roll-out, then it wouldn't be able to be fixed or perfected.



I look at DWP as a good thing for public servers, promoting the use of lesser weapons and as such requiring the public players to work together to win. If any of you remember the old "training" stuff in retail Counter-Strike, you might remember that it stated: "Counter-Strike is not the kind of game where you can rush in and kill everybody."



But yes, as someone who understands the competitive community, it can be considered as bad, and Valve realized that too, that is why they added the cvar.



And I agree with the riot shield. The only reason they created it was to make it coincide with their expansion of the franchise: Condition Zero, which in the end, was just a botted version of CS.



The cinematic stuff in DoD: S I think is there to help in immersion... but I agree, it's completely unnecessary.



Like I stated in a post before: Counter-Strike: Source is not and never was intended to be a direct port of Counter-Strike 1.6, it wasn't suppose to be Counter-Strike 1.6: For Source, it was suppose to be it's own game. And again, if people want that, they can keep up with the development of CSProMod.



These little though large changes I feel are necessary for CS: Source. But apart from balancing/fixing up a few of the things with them, there need be no more changes and I agree with you, there are other things that need worked on. The bots, better cs_ maps. And fixing up other aspects of their games/software (VAC).



And as a nice little side note: Since I got so freaking tired of playing nothing but Dust2 and office in my server when they were getting voted in, I increased my map list to a larger amount, and removed all voting capabilities to the server. Seriously, every time I went into the sever that I administer, and I'm in charge of, it was playing either office or dust2, don't get me wrong, they're decent maps, but that gets so freaking boring after a while. No votes, and a full map rotation (mikej be happy , there's at least one server out there to fulfill your wishes.)

[Foo2rama]

you know this whole thread makes me wonder as I have been in since beta .4 and the scoped colt, I think the community whines more then ever... there was much much bigger changes back pre 1.0

[FlyingMongoose]

I know that, I know about the history pre-1.0, but I did not experience it. So I didn't want to get into it for fear of getting something wrong.

[omgomgz]

I think that Valve has no clue what we want, or they just don't care. I was really unimpressed with the job they did with HL2DM. It doesn't look like they planned it since it came a week or two (weeks?) after HL2 was released. They should have created a more unique gameplay, and added new things that weren't in single player so they could actually give mod-makers something to work with. Hell, they didn't even give us func_vehicle.



So to sum it all up I think the lack of mod progress for HL2 that we're experiencing is in part due to the bad job done on HL2MP.



But like MikeJ said, CS:S is just a gimmick. They probably should have created CS:CZ in CS:S's place and expanded on it more to allow more new weapons and gameplay.



CS news sites are serving Valve, if Valve isn't going to show common courtesy and return questions to a site serving over 1 terabyte of bandwidth to users, then I say you stop serving Valve. But that's just me.

[Cynan]

For what's it's worth I think Counter-Strike should be left alone - as in, forgotton. It's time to move on. At least from a commercial perspective. Battlefield2 for instance is a fantastic game. It has it's problems yes but doesn't everything? It's new(er) and has much more enthusiam for it.



Now don't get me wrong. I loved Counter-Strike ever since a friend (Kaikill) introduced me to it many years ago and I'm not saying we should abandon the concept - just the game as it is now, controlled by Valve.



What I'm trying to say is that Counter-Strike was done by players, for players. There is a lot of talent out there - is there no group of you who will band together and create the next non-commercial and free Counter-Strike ? This is what we need. Not Value and coporate marketting...

[LeRaldo]

What CS:Source should be: CS1.6 with pretty graphics. Physics staying mostly the same.



What CS:Source is: A pathetic attempt at something new with a thin, cheap coat of CS paint.



I think it would be better if they didn't call it CS:Source. CS2, maybe, whatever, don't care. But it is not Counter-Strike on the source engine. It's a very poor imitation.



I'm all for ANY changes to CS:Source, just because I consider the game a failure (based on the reasons above, not on how many sales it got) and it doesn't matter to me what they do with it.

[EviLuoTioN]

fuck you zips, stop trying to change the cscommunity for the worse



go play some dx10 game

EviLuoTioN wrote..

fuck you zips, stop trying to change the cscommunity for the worse



go play some dx10 game

hes right....

[-:Nighthawk:-]

Isn't it amazing how heated people still get over this game?



I don't play CS:S. I did for a while, don't get me wrong... all through the beta stage with de_dust only, and a ways into maturity before I finally realized that the pretty graphics didn't change the fact that I still like the original better. That was roughly a year ago. I did, however, play it again for a week or two in like May or so when the VIP mod came out, as this infused some new life into the experience, if only briefly.



I don't play CS1.6 either. I'll still play it at LAN parties with friends, but never on my own. It's still a fun experience, but I'm not into the competitive scene, so there's nothing holding me back to that version.



What I do still play is CZ. Yes, it has probably been the most mocked version of CS to come out, as the single-player experience(s) were laughable at best. However, in multiplayer, it plays and feels like the classic CS experience I've enjoyed since... oi, I started in 2000, which places me not quite as veteran as some, but age 18 is now a long ways back in my time. :)



For me, it's just a natural trend. We go through life finding certain things that we just attach to, that we idealize to some extent, and always look back to our positive reflections of these things as "the good old days."



Grandpa talks about the good old days, mom listens to the oldies station, and I play CZ. That's just how life works.



I had high hopes for CS:S, but part of me doubts if I would like CS:S as much as I love the classic experience even if I could personally dictate every change that was going to take place to bring CS:S in-line with my vision of what CS is all about. So my take on the whole thing? I've already got a game I like, and plenty of Source-based mods that I also enjoy.



In the end, I care about the future of CS:S about as much as my mom cares about the future of hip-hop. Look me up in CZ sometime, and you just might catch a glimpse of me, if I don't see you down my barrel first. :)

[BicyclMan]

I'll tell you what they need to do.



1) I don't have an issue with enforcing player model consistency on servers. That's why you see so many reskinned player models on some sites instead of new models. But you need a little bit more than 4 on each team. I would put in the SpetzNatz and an ARAB dude. (LEET guy from CS:CZ) Just to name two of them.



2) I would make it so you can edit the text under the player model choice menus also. Like say instead of ARCTIC AVENGER, it could say Urban Thug or Bank Robber or something like that. (I saw the ARCTIC dude that was reskinned to look like a Urban Thug, nicely done.)Makes it more fitting to the player model when selecting one.



3) You need to give everyone a FREE CS:SOURCE weekend like you guys did in Day of DEFEAT.



4) CS:SOURCE needs a one button customizable command menu script like the one in CS 1.6 and CZ .



5) Other than that CS:SOURCE is OK to me. Nicely done.



http://bmcs.vze.com

[DevgruSeal H.E]

@BicyclMan:

#2 can be done easily, if you go edit some of the files in the game folders..Just browse around them, you'll find them I don't have them edited though, because I'm in CAL...



#4 could also be done with a few scripts that are out there..Try Counter-Script..

[peagle]

I have to agree, I've never liked Outlook, I've always prefered Lotus Notes.



Now that I'm ashamed of that comment, on-topic I think Valve would earn major points if they posted in this thread.

[FlyingMongoose]

Edited by [user="59887"] @ [time="1164079905"]

LeRaldo wrote..

What CS:Source should be: CS1.6 with pretty graphics. Physics staying mostly the same.

It's not, it's it's own game, if you WANT cs 1.6 with pretty graphics and nifty physics, go wait for other pro mod with the other close minded cynics.

[entRo]

ProMod has been shut down for awhile.

[FlyingMongoose]

It's still an existing project that can be waited for.