Outlook: Not so Good

[CSN NewsBot]

Nope, I'm not talking about the mail client. I'm talking about CS: Source. Most of what I've seen from the community regarding the last few updates have been quite negative. The release of the dynamic weapon pricing was a huge blow to the "die-hard" fans of Counter-Strike.



Tonight's update effectively kills some admin plugins that include map voting, and "basic" admin functionality. This is due to the variable that clients can set that prevents the execution of commands from the server admin. Obviously, a number of server admins are not at all happy. Some vowing to pull out of the CS: Source hosting game completely.



So what needs to be done? Obviously, I'm sure a great majority will say that bugs need to be fixed and such. But beyond that, what should happen? Should CS: Source remain at CS1.6 levels for all eternity, never to grow, never to expand beyond its roots? Why? There are some in one camp that say CS: Source should be as faithful to 1.6 as possible. But there are those on the other side who say that if CS: Source retained all of 1.6's characteristics, why have two separate games to begin with? Let CS: Source grow! Let CS: Source differentiate itself!



Where is CS: Source headed? The community is now essentially split and up in arms over the last few changes. So where do we go from here? Share your thoughts. This isn't some mailbag feature, this is just morbid curiosity after all I've seen over the last few weeks.

[MikeJ]

Honestly? I think CS: Source is a gimmick. It has always felt to me like CS with better graphics and ragdoll physics, cute but not some grand new game to really get excited about when I already have CS 1.6. What I mean is, Valve's development efforts could be better spent on creating a new innovative game (hell, even CS2) from the ground up rather than tweaking another tired shooter in an over saturated market that peaked years ago. Just keep updating VAC and fix any major bugs and call it a day. I don't think my dismal opinion is going to go over well though.



PS: I hated map voting. Even servers with voting systems that prevent the same map being played twice in X period of time wound up playing the same expected maps over and over because people vote the same things over and over.



Last time I played it had gotten so bad that people simply left the server if it wasn't on dust2 or whatever.



This is the part where I revel in the "good old days" when servers ran full rotations and people looked forward to a new gameplay setting, every 25 minutes.

[Thortok2000]

Edited by [user="152360"] @ [time="1163886215"]

I've actually been thinking, they need to make a CS 1.6 Source, that's a lot like HL:S, in that, it is 100% purely a graphics upgrade, nothing more, nothing less.



Then, rename the current CS:S to CS2, and do whatever the heck they want with it and keep on improving it. Though I feel they should have more extensive beta tests for new features (read: DWP was still broken when they 'released' it, it's a good idea if it ever gets fixed), I like that there ARE new features...theoretically... After all, the radar is good.



If I could design the perfect server (in response to MikeJ's comment), it would be like this: (Quoted so it isn't so long)

First off, yes, it would have map voting. However, you could only vote for a map with a different objective (on a de_ map, only cs_ ones come up to vote, or non-objective ones). On non-objective maps, gun-game is automatically turned on every time, but can be voted off, at least until the next non-objective map. The gun game uses the prices of DWP to determine the order of guns: Level 1 is most expensive, and the last level is the cheapest, and then knife. (No 'skipping' levels by getting a knife, though you can make your enemy lose a level that way, you just don't earn one.) Non-objective maps would rotate either on the normal round rotation, or when the gun game was won, whichever comes first.



And you couldn't replay a map until 75% of the map's entire rotation had been gone through. And you couldn't vote for extend, which is fine, because the 'win limit' would be 45 and the 'round limit' would be 60. This gives you enough time to play the map. 'Rockthevote' would be allowed after 30 rounds, but would require 100% of the server to agree to rockthevote. Once every 4 hours, the server would pick the least commonly played map, and force it to that. However, rockthevote would be enabled after 10 rounds, when that happens. Maps that the server just hates would get removed from the rotation and replaced with others. I'm thinking the rotation would include 20+ maps, the more the merrier.



It would contain a mod that balances teams very efficiently, without killing anyone, and it would switch living players, without any delay in doing so. I actually have my own algorithm for doing this, and it is based on how often a player is on the team that wins, having absolutely nothing to do with kills or deaths or anything. (Therefore it would work perfectly with mods where you can heal/resurrect your allies, contributing to the win, but without getting kills/deaths. Would also stomp on teamstackers.) I might get around to making that mod someday, but it's low priority. Mod makers who are interested are free to contact me and I'll hand over my algorithm as long as I get a little credit.



The anti-teamkill mod would be very simple. If you do damage to a teammate, they don't take that damage, YOU do. If you headshot a teammate, they stay alive, you die. I'm not sure if you'd have to have FF on or off for this mod to work. Or if it even can work. But I like the concept. Similarly, if you throw a teamflash, teammates don't get blinded, but the length you get blinded is multiplied by every teammate you flashed. (If there are lots of enemies, this may be worth the cost, it alters the gameplay slightly, but since this is going to be a pub anyway, oh well. I'm willing to retract this particular mod idea, after testing and tweaking.)



DWP would be turned on, although a vote with 100% in agreement would turn it off. It would turn back on for the next map. Hopefully once DWP gets to working, people will be less desirous to vote it off.



No money would be given, ever, (so no bounty/bet mods). No joke things like 'roll the dice'. Anything that significantly alters the original gameplay wouldn't be allowed.



And speaking of votes, any player can vote to kick any non-admin player. That player gets a temp ban until everyone who voted to kick him has left, or one hour, whichever comes first. Only 50% would be needed to succeed in this vote.



Also, and this is just personal preference, it would contain a profanity filter mod. I just don't want to see or hear that junk while I'm playing a game I like.



And lastly, there would be two 'talk' functions. Talk, and team_talk, which would work exactly like say and team_say. 'Talk' would do alltalk to everyone, however if you're dead, it would only be heard by the other dead players. 'Team_talk' would be heard by teammates, but if you're dead, it would only be heard by the other dead teammates. Honestly, I wish this function was innate in CS. It would require two keybindings, yes, but it would be worth it. After all, say and team_say have two keybindings, no problem.



And that's it, that's what I want in a server, other than a low ping, great maps, and polite and constant admins, of course.

[Pen2]

The community is now essentially split and up in arms over the last few changes.

Let the Counter Strike Source civil war begin. Seriously, that would make the game totally awesome.

[V1P3R]

All i'm gonna say is I am a faithful player of CS since the early Betas. I've visited this site forever as well.



I like both games.



1.6 is pretty much done in terms of updates.



Source needs to continue to be improved on. The most important thing they need to do is fix all the the bugs and keep updating VAC. There are bugs in Source that still exist after years of them being known. Its taking them forever to fix the bugs.

[Marlin]

CS:Source is progressing but VALVe really needs to choose quality over quantity. VALVe is constantly adding features instead of fixing the countless bugs in this game introduced with updates.



It's great that the game is different from Counter-Strike 1.6, I don't see many complain about that. I play in the competitive community of CS:Source in CAL-invite and CEVO-professional and the usual complaint is the one I mentioned above.

[Crilix]

The problem is that CS:S is close too close to 1.6 and yet still has differant features. It's like they aren't quite crossing the line between a knockoff and standalone game. I appreciate some of the new content and features, but really... I think they need to make it a strict 1.6 to Source port, or a significantly differant game altogether. Right now it's so inbetween.



Personally, I love the idea of DWP and would like to see more such features. I kind of... MMO-FPS hybrid-esque stuff.

-Cril

[DaRk-AnGeL]

$6700 Desert Eagles FTW.



Seriously - All source needs is some quality time spent on it........

[omgomgz]

I thought you were going to say episode 2 was delayed with that title.

[.Sn0w.]

Valve need to retrace there roots and fix source I think they forget what game they created and are turning CS into a mega supermarket of games, its a joke and all the recent updates have been worthless and none have fixed any major bugs just created more.

[Saint_K]

The game needs propper mod support like amxmodx. Thats what will save CS:S from gettin all focked up...

[DarkViper311]

I'm sort of in the middle. Make some changes, but be reasonable about it, goddamnit.



Personally, I wouldn't mind the Gluon Gun or long jump modules.



And all the hostages are either Eli Vance or Jack Sparrow, who occasionally shoots you in the back if you take too long or put him in danger.



But, c'mon, dynamic pricing? Valve is just losing it now.

[Que_?]

So what needs to be done?

They need to test,test and test again!!! How many times have they done a update just to make it so much worse. WE are not BETA testers. It's like they don't even test it at all.

[Foo2rama]

why to post a productive news post.. just fan the flames with this one. This is not the first time vavle broke something pretty big...

[Mofio]

HEY..CSNATION STAFF:



Why don't u try getting something of Valve?

U should be on them like glue so they give a comment about what they think about the DWP and the communitys reaction.



Instead of doing a thread about what we think u should concentrate on getting Valve to say what they think and why they dont fix the bugs...do they need more money or they don't care or whats wrong with them?