Turtle Rock Speaks

[peagle]

hahnchen wrote..

Damnit, they give out zero information on their new game.

Immediately following that statement he starts talking about the next evolution in FPS games, getting away from the one-dimensional npc's that have existed since UU1 and introducing AI as believeable as the worlds the characters live in. Doesn't sound like random hyperbole to me.

[EdisLeado]

mouth wrote..

You really have to get a hard skin. Because it's a fuckload easier to do that and pull a Gooseman than it is to actually attract properly evolved players by fixing obvious and long-standing deficiencies.

Well, of course it's easy to pull a "Gooseman" because Gooseman WAS ONLY ONE GUY. He did all the work practically ffs. Turtle Rock Studios is well... A studio... With more than one person -- So there shouldn't be an excuse as to whether they can get things done. If Gooseman did it, Turtle Rock can do it.

[:.:.:]

peagle wrote..

Immediately following that statement he starts talking about the next evolution in FPS games, getting away from the one-dimensional npc's that have existed since UU1 and introducing AI as believeable as the worlds the characters live in.

They can start with the chicken in cs_italy

[Deletable_Man]

CZ still remains the most fun version of CS. It isn't old and shitty like 1.6, and it isnt new and shitty like CS:S. It's the perfect medium.

[mouth]

Zips wrote..

He even goes on to say that as painful as it is, they still do frequent the comments of message boards in order to get feedback, both good and bad (IE where he says: "there is no substitute for getting clear feedback on how an update was received and what the perceived gains and losses were to the game experience.") That isn't just taking the good and ignoring the bad by any stretch of the imagination.

Yeah, it pretty much is. The problems of CS have been reiterated over and over and over again along the course of several years. So much so that "reading the various CS forums" is little more than a euphamism for "Reading websites instead of doing work, like 90% of all marginally-useful cubicle monkeys".



"You know that *every bit* of detail you work hard to add to the game will be noticed, dissected, and debated."? No, every bit of detail HAS been noticed, dissected, and debated. Past tense. Way past tense. If these losers at Turtle Rock were worth the money they live on, CS:S would be revitalizing the online FPS genre instead of merely being a way for idiots to play the same goddamned game they've always been playing, but with worse framerates and queer barrel physics.



The pathetic thing is that the whole "Oh, there's a vocal minority" thing has gotten so out of hand that even a group of schlubs like this can use it to wave away any responsibility. It's gone from being the sad truth with genres like flight sims, to simply being a head-in-the-sand tactic used to ignore anything that isn't causing the user base to hemorrhage. Which these days, given the low standards CS and its players have cultivated, would apparently be nothing less than the hard drive equivalent of Ebola Zaire.



Unless it's a beta. Then that kind of thing would totally be acceptable.

[-:Nighthawk:-]

Deletable_Man wrote..

CZ still remains the most fun version of CS. It isn't old and shitty like 1.6, and it isnt new and shitty like CS:S. It's the perfect medium.

As amusing as that comment is... I almost agree with it... CZ is still the version I play most often, though I rarely find time to play any version anymore -- still feels like classic CS, but just more polished. Deus Ex (the original, not Invisible War) currently has what little playtime I can come up with at the moment... I'm a sucker for the good old classics.



Anyway, good interview, I haven't always liked what Turtle Rock Studios has done, but then again, I have liked plenty of what they've done. Personal preference is just that... a personal thing, and it's gonna vary from person to person. I for one appreciated the honesty and straightforwardness of some of the replies, instead of just a measured PR response of "response has been mostly positive" or something like that, ignoring the other side of things.

[entRo]

mouth wrote..

Yeah, it pretty much is. The problems of CS have been reiterated over and over and over again along the course of several years. So much so that "reading the various CS forums" is little more than a euphamism for "Reading websites instead of doing work, like 90% of all marginally-useful cubicle monkeys".



"You know that *every bit* of detail you work hard to add to the game will be noticed, dissected, and debated."? No, every bit of detail HAS been noticed, dissected, and debated. Past tense. Way past tense. If these losers at Turtle Rock were worth the money they live on, CS:S would be revitalizing the online FPS genre instead of merely being a way for idiots to play the same goddamned game they've always been playing, but with worse framerates and queer barrel physics.



The pathetic thing is that the whole "Oh, there's a vocal minority" thing has gotten so out of hand that even a group of schlubs like this can use it to wave away any responsibility. It's gone from being the sad truth with genres like flight sims, to simply being a head-in-the-sand tactic used to ignore anything that isn't causing the user base to hemorrhage. Which these days, given the low standards CS and its players have cultivated, would apparently be nothing less than the hard drive equivalent of Ebola Zaire.



Unless it's a beta. Then that kind of thing would totally be acceptable.

quoted for fucking truth. Whoever is behind patching and fixing CS:S (and 1.6) should be absolutely embarassed with the job they've done, but only after they've been fired and replaced with a competent team.



and Gpig, the CS:S competitive scene is plenty lively. flashes deafening you and not being able to spam hasn't even hurt the game, much less kill the competitive side.

[Gpig]

entRo wrote..

and Gpig, the CS:S competitive scene is plenty lively. flashes deafening you and not being able to spam hasn't even hurt the game, much less kill the competitive side.

The team at the top of the Florida source lan scene is a team consisting of players who never made it out of cal-im, much less beat any of the top teams. The other teams are even worse. There's a competitive scene, it's just comprised of players who started when source came out or weren't good at 1.6. The top source team in the US had p0s and that call of duty player. I can't recall p0s ever making it past cal-p in 1.6, but I could be wrong. When I said it killed the competitive side I didn't mean that it didn't exist, I just meant that it wasn't competitive.



Also, I'm glad mouth is back. Although I think he should try to only respond to newsposts that rizzuh makes. He might be waiting a long time, but it's worth it.

Man, these tables are really shitty. The post/edit comment button usually doesn't show up, the text goes off the screen while typing it in a box sometimes, and the left side of the text is having half a letter cut off all the way down in some posts (such as entros).

[entRo]

It's definitely competitive. It looks easy right now because to any experienced 1.6 player, it IS pretty damn easy. Most Source teams consist purely of Source players, and thus don't have the same game knowledge or experience that comes with years of competitive play that 1.6/CS gave.



For example, my team consists almost entirely of 1.6 players that I convinced to switch over, and we're having no problem beating most teams. We've played in competition for years, which immediately gives us a big head start over most CS:S teams. 1.6's competitive scene is pretty tough shit, with tons of good teams and a fair amount of hackers, it's not suprising that teams with a decent amount of skill get fucked up even in lower divisions.

[Splatula]

entro's got it pretty good. The only reason CSS isn't quite at the same level comptetitively speaking, is the lazyness of the veterans out there in moving to the new platform. Yep, you can't just fire up your old Pentium II to play source, but really, in the sports world you don't see hockey players without helmets and wearing giganto pads these days either. It's long past time to move on, and if I were Valve, I wouldn't issue a single update to 1.6 at this point... it is not worth the time or money when you can work hard on Source and make it better.



Spam maps pretty much ruined the gameplay of 1.6 for awhile, until everyone finally got it and checked them out for themselves, thus evening things out again. There is always a competitive advantage somewhere, be it a better system, faster internet connection or a high precision mouse... but people don't whine about those things affecting competitive play. We tweak our systems out the best we can, use our skills to the max and play our hearts out. Pissing over minor hitbox differences between source is irrelevant. You move on and learn the new game, or suffer in 1.6land.



What it comes down to is that to truly be a skillful player/team you need good aim, fast reflexes, encyclopedic knowledge of map layouts and sound strategies. This is what makes a game comptetitive, not riot sheilds and spam points. Everything else is icing on the cake - fancy weapons, 4 unique models and chickens. You can't complain about the CSS scene if you aren't doing your part to improve it. The community is what made 1.6 popular, and once the CSS comunity matures it will definitely be just as or more popular.