CS:S Terrorist Polished

[Spliffmonkey]

Que_? wrote..

No need to even play the new Assault rizzuh. The hostages get suck on eveything. They need to change all CS_ maps to DM. Until there is an update for the AI.

Quoted for truth.



Basically as CT you have to take out all the T's as rescuing the hostages is near impossible! I mean my god it takes them ages to negotiate a 1/2 foot tall rail track when taking them out the front...



I know that even with good AI it's difficult, but this is just beyond a joke.



Well played with the new T model it's complete guff. Lipstick n' all! I really can't see why valve have decided to leave it up to the mod or server admins in the community so that people can actually pick and choose from the old and new models. Pathetic.

[[CyW]-=BigBear=-]

RobinsonCutter wrote..

there's no reason the hitboxes shouldn't ALWAYS be exactly where the model is. the hitbox location vs. the model shouldnt' have anything to do with the server at all. the location of the hitbox should be entirely clientside up to a certain ping where you could begin to exploit it. (and by that i mean like how in some other games people purposely lag out to get easy headshots on stationary models. with an entirely client-side hit detection system this is a problem unless you set a ping at which the system checks with the server like it is every time with valve's current detection model.)

I think if it was that easy Valve would have done it by now, but I guess it's not so easy.. You will always have "errors" in model & hitbox prediction aslong as one is done client-side and the other server-side, this is the case in any online fps game.. People can whine about it forever, it's not gonna change anything..

[GeOTek]

RobinsonCutter wrote..

stop defending the hitboxes. the fact is they're just not right. some of the time they're in the right spot--others their behind or in front of the view model. it's all got to do with poor lag compensation and it's an epidemic of the entire Source engine. if you start an HL2M server and just play with a friend to test the hitboxes out, assuming it doesn't lag to death like every other hl2dm server, you'll find similar hit registration problems. i've tried it myself and know for a fact this is true. oh, and there's one other problem. they're hit BOXES. this is stupid, because bodies are box shaped. add a few more polygons, people. they need to rework the lag compensation system, and the problems will be gone. there's no reason the hitboxes shouldn't ALWAYS be exactly where the model is. the hitbox location vs. the model shouldnt' have anything to do with the server at all. the location of the hitbox should be entirely clientside up to a certain ping where you could begin to exploit it. (and by that i mean like how in some other games people purposely lag out to get easy headshots on stationary models. with an entirely client-side hit detection system this is a problem unless you set a ping at which the system checks with the server like it is every time with valve's current detection model.)

http://www.valve-erc.com/srcsdk/general...er_networking



Refrain from typing anything flamatory before you know what indeed you are typing about.

[Tenreh]

Assault source is, without question, a beautiful remake of the map we all got bored of in 1999. While it is incredibly good looking, the game-play has not changed very much at all. My gripe is the few changes to the game-play dynamics that WERE made favour terrorist campers, on a map that was already excessively oriented towards terrorist camping. The 3 changes in particular that I'm talking about are:

A) The back doors. I like the addition of the second door, but the way the doors open outwards, to provide cover for exiting terrorists adds an advantage for them in that hallway that makes a successful rush to the backdoor roof ladder even harder, as if that cage around the ladder that forces super-precise ladder climbing wasn't enough.

B) The vent opening. I'm talking about the part where the Ts enter the vent, where the ladder used to be. The dynamics of the previous assault allowed a skilled ct to slip in, since the camper newb sitting on the ladder would fire a lot of bad shots, since ladders hurt accuracy, an intelligent terrorist would stand at the mouth of the vent and jump, seeing a ct pop in, he would strafe to the side a bit and spam the side of the vent to hit the ct through the wall. Not being able to see where exactly the ct is while spamming, coupled with the reduced damage of bullets through walls, made it quite possible for a ct to make it to the ladder in the middle of the vent. Now its common to jump down into the vent and be greeted by 3 terrorists with paras standing on that box with solid aim ready to smoke you and nothing but divine intervention will you get you to that middle ladder in the vent.. which brings us to:

C) The middle ladder. The height of the middle ladder has been increased. What does this mean? Basically, when you get to it, if theres a guy camping at the top of that ladder (and when isnt there?) if he strafes to his right as far as he can, right up against the side of the vent, and watches down the ladder for incoming CTs, no matter what that ct does, the camping terrorist will see parts of the ct's body come into view before the CT can see the camper. So even a CT, whos looking straight up at where the camper would be, and strafing out to pop him in the head, that camper will see the CT's arm, which he can proceed to spray wildly, while all the CT sees is the top of the vent still.



Anyway, that's my 2 cents. I just think those small changes made infiltrating the warehouse via the vent much less plausible.

On a map that already encouraged terrorists to camp and awp cts as soon as they come through any one entrance, small changes like this that make terrorist camping more effective, combined with that huge sniper deck train station next to the ct spawn, in my opinion all work together to foster an atmosphere of camping the likes of which cs has never seen before. Of course skilled terrorists still come flying out the garage door, and a skilled ct may get lucky and slip in through the vent, but the vast majority of players see the best player on their team jump into the vent, and watch him instantly cut down by a hail of gunfire, they're not gonna follow him in, and campfest ensues.

Basically what I'm saying is, skill used to get you into the vent, now the CTs only ally for infiltrating the vent is luck.

I still enjoy playing on CT on assault, I just wish they had kept the vent ladder and not added those boxes.



~Dazed

[Zips]

vamiciouskanid wrote..

Zips, the hitboxs are terrible and we were playing on an updated server =/

The hitboxes fit the models pretty good on updated servers.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/s...readid=313838









At most, I'd say the T headbox needs to be rotated a bit so that it's more level at the top (when looking at it from the side). Looking at the T from the front it appears as though the hitbox pops up too much in the back, and the slight rotation should fix that.

[DaRk-AnGeL]

Just out of interest, why can't you make a perfect hitbox ? Why do they always have to be square, and not in fact perfectly hug the model ? I've always wondered that :)

[Zips]

DaRk-AnGeL wrote..

Just out of interest, why can't you make a perfect hitbox ? Why do they always have to be square, and not in fact perfectly hug the model ? I've always wondered that :)

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/s...readid=313992



That very question is "answered" by the visiters to the Steampowered boards. Take your pick of the user speculative ideas that sound the most plausible to you...

[Salamandra]

Doom 3 has per pixel hit detection, so the "hitboxes" are perfect on that.



However, you're limited to like... 10 person games. Any higher and it gets laggy as hell. As opposed to CS:S, where there's up to 64 player servers that run fine.

[ultracooldom]

the new terrorist model is more leaner? what the hell does leaner mean?



what did they change with the terrorist model other than the height anyways?

[Que_?]

ultracooldom wrote..

the new terrorist model is more leaner? what the hell does leaner mean?



what did they change with the terrorist model other than the height anyways?

There food intake?

[entRo]

Zips, I'm really curious if those hitboxes match up to the models when the players are moving. I doubt it.

ultracooldom wrote..

what the hell does leaner mean?

You're dumb?

[Grimbal]

the lips are not as red

[Zips]

entRo wrote..

Zips, I'm really curious if those hitboxes match up to the models when the players are moving. I doubt it.

And you're probably right, but then again it doesn't matter if they do or not. The apparent client location of a hitbox on a moving target simply doesn't matter.



http://www.valve-erc.com/srcsdk/general...er_networking

[-:Nighthawk:-]

I understand the idea behind that, but I still have to say that VALVe would save themselves (and many of us) a lot of headaches if they'd fix their code for the displayed hitboxes so that the displayed hitboxes lined up with the true hitboxes.



As it is, if you turn them on, they look like they lag like crazy at times, but shooting the displayed hitbox will give you a miss, where as shooting the model (more or less) will give you your intended hit. Ever since that last update that fixed some odd timing issues, I haven't had any noticeable problems with hitboxes, other than the "wtf?!" moments that I've always had on occassion with CS. :)

[ZackMorris]

Edited by [user="68155"] @ [time="1121387569"]

Zips wrote..

The hitboxes fit the models pretty good on updated servers.

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/s...readid=313838

Hey Zips, I will admit when I am wrong, and in this case I am. I was NOT playing on an updated server I found out. I thought it was updated because I saw it was takedn down for maintanence right around the update and ASSUMED. Turns out it was just them restarting it everyday for the memory leak issue.



I found this out after I contacted my server host and they let me know that this latest CS update was put out by Valve with a "low importance" rating, so the server just set an update for a normal Friday update. If Valve had told them it would be important to update the server quickly, they would have. Not blaming Valve at all, but it would of been nice if Valve informed the server hosts the discrepency between hotboxs and the model updates.



My server has been updated now, havent tested it out yet, but I am glad the confusion is done with. You pwned me, D. Johnston pwned me, and I feel a little like your CS Nation bitch today.



Take a man to admit he fucked up.



I talked to my server host - Maybe I'm just dumb and have not been paying close attention to steam forums, but they told me VAC2 went live 1 1/2 weeks ago. I asked them to remove the beta, they did, and it was still showing it secured, so I asked them again. They informed me that it is live.