Source Recap

[Firefucker]

Could somebody PLEASE tell me, why on earth CZ is ported to Steam, instead of simply re-uniting both 1.6 and CZ in CS:S? Honestly, what would be the difference between CS:S and CZ:S? Better hostage AI? omg

[azz0r]

Whats this crap about CZ going over to CS:S?



That makes no sense, do they mean theyre remaking the single player and few exclusive maps?



Because remaking remade CS maps would be weird O_O

[HankPym]

Firefucker wrote..

Could somebody PLEASE tell me, why on earth CZ is ported to Steam, instead of simply re-uniting both 1.6 and CZ in CS:S? Honestly, what would be the difference between CS:S and CZ:S? Better hostage AI? omg

The single-player missions. Honestly that's about the only difference I'm expecting to see.

[Electronic Punk]

Yeah, apparently CS:S will get bots, but not in the initial release.

[GameHopper]

Shuzer wrote..

Personally, I believe VALVe's thoughts were "CS:S beta for CZ owners. They've supported us as a company most recently by paying for a new game, why not give them something back?"



WHY do people expect CS:S beta handed to them on a silver platter? You paid for HL 6 years ago (some of you), or CS retail a good 3 or so years ago (or HL, or.. blah blah x amount of years ago).. explain to me how that entitles you to an otherwise brand new product's beta?

Here are a few reasons:



1) CZ was way overpriced based on the quality of the product and was an outright disappointment.



2) HL2 has been overly delayed and lying about release dates will only drive fans so far (especially if you bought an ATI card thinking that it would actually come out sept 30th)



3) You shouldnt have to pay to play a BETA product



4) testing with CZ only owners (very few, very noobed) for less than 2 months is not considered BETA testing, it's considered as a gimmick



5) all of us are going to buy HL2 anways (and CS:S comes with it supposedly) so why not let us BETA test it

[azz0r]

1) Or not. I am pleased with the SP, new sounds, new models and great maps.



2) Yeah, Valves a big fat liar, they arent delaying the game to make it better for you. They just like to lie.



3) You dont its a perk, I bought CZ not knowing that Id be able to play CS : S, this is a bonus.



4) A gimmick I and alot of people will enjoy, but whine away because I wont be missing out on it - you will.



5) No-one knows exactly when HL2 is coming out, besides us CZ need some more value for our product.



Well done Valve.

[GameHopper]

azz0r wrote..

1) Or not. I am pleased with the SP, new sounds, new models and great maps.



2) Yeah, Valves a big fat liar, they arent delaying the game to make it better for you. They just like to lie.



3) You dont its a perk, I bought CZ not knowing that Id be able to play CS : S, this is a bonus.



4) A gimmick I and alot of people will enjoy, but whine away because I wont be missing out on it - you will.



5) No-one knows exactly when HL2 is coming out, besides us CZ need some more value for our product.



Well done Valve.

1) after playing UT 2004, FarCry, BattleField I dont see how you can say that.. unless you havent played these



2) i dont care what they are doing, they shouldnt have lied especially if people are going to be tricked into buying a 3D for a game that wont ever come out



3) You pay for CS:S when you pay for CZ, unless you actually want to play CZ



4) i dont know what you are trying to say here..



Valve seems to be on the right track with CS:S.. the game loooks sweet and they kept the same gameplay elements. I just think they should rethink this whole beta thing and working on communicating with the community better.

[itsMrHankey2u]

honestly, valve made the right choice with making it only available to cz users. everybody else is just whining because they want to beta test cs:s and they dont want to buy cz. good job valve(and why cant cliffe actually post something usefull instead of a random quark?)

[HankPym]

GameHopper wrote..

1) CZ was way overpriced based on the quality of the product and was an outright disappointment.

Don't speak for CZ owners. When it came out I read the reviews, carefully assessed what it was and was not, bought the game, and am quite satisfied with it for what it is.

2) HL2 has been overly delayed and lying about release dates will only drive fans so far (especially if you bought an ATI card thinking that it would actually come out sept 30th)

Again, the release dates don't bother me - I don't think Valve has deliberately lied about anything, though their PR could use some work. If you really think that the fans can only be driven "so far," why don't you make an example for all of us and boycott HL2?

3) You shouldnt have to pay to play a BETA product

I have no problem with this, I think that the Cybercafés and CZ community are quite appropriate testing groups, for reasons I've explained elsewhere. Don't get so upset over what will amount to a 2-or-3 week testing period.

4) testing with CZ only owners (very few, very noobed) for less than 2 months is not considered BETA testing, it's considered as a gimmick

A quick gander at the Steam status page indicates there are currently 14,869 CZ players online. If we can make the reasonable assumption that only half of the total CZ users are playing at this very moment, that would mean there are at least 29,738 CZ players. That's a lot of testers. Furthermore, that's a lot of "noobs," a charge which I resent as a longtime player.

5) all of us are going to buy HL2 anways (and CS:S comes with it supposedly) so why not let us BETA test it

Well then I guess nobody is going to be pushed too far as you implied earlier, then. As for the "why not" question, I can't really answer that. I'd say that for whatever reason, they want a smaller population to test from - it's a lot easier to manage feedback from 30 000 people than 100 000, and you're probably still going to get all of the opinions. And hey, why not give a bonus to the CZ owners, who at least are customers who have paid for a Valve product within the last 5 years? I don't have a problem with that.

[GameHopper]

HankPym wrote..

Don't speak for CZ owners. When it came out I read the reviews, carefully assessed what it was and was not, bought the game, and am quite satisfied with it for what it is.



Again, the release dates don't bother me - I don't think Valve has deliberately lied about anything, though their PR could use some work. If you really think that the fans can only be driven "so far," why don't you make an example for all of us and boycott HL2?



I have no problem with this, I think that the Cybercafés and CZ community are quite appropriate testing groups, for reasons I've explained elsewhere. Don't get so upset over what will amount to a 2-or-3 week testing period.



A quick gander at the Steam status page indicates there are currently 14,869 CZ players online. If we can make the reasonable assumption that only half of the total CZ users are playing at this very moment, that would mean there are at least 29,738 CZ players. That's a lot of testers. Furthermore, that's a lot of "noobs," a charge which I resent as a longtime player.



Well then I guess nobody is going to be pushed too far as you implied earlier, then. As for the "why not" question, I can't really answer that. I'd say that for whatever reason, they want a smaller population to test from - it's a lot easier to manage feedback from 30 000 people than 100 000, and you're probably still going to get all of the opinions. And hey, why not give a bonus to the CZ owners, who at least are customers who have paid for a Valve product within the last 5 years? I don't have a problem with that.

1)..i wasnt speaking for anyone, i was speaking about the product



2) so it really came out on sept 30?



3) seems like some people do



4) sorry about stereotyping there, i just think buying something that you already have over again is a bit noobish. It's true there are a lot of CZ players, but I'm not.



5) When I said being "pushed too far" i meant getting fed up.. of course everyone is going to buy HL2, but it would be much better if everyone could be happy :). Plus i rather play CS:S than HL2.

[Shuzer]

GameHopper wrote..

1) CZ was way overpriced based on the quality of the product and was an outright disappointment.



2) HL2 has been overly delayed and lying about release dates will only drive fans so far (especially if you bought an ATI card thinking that it would actually come out sept 30th)



3) You shouldnt have to pay to play a BETA product



4) testing with CZ only owners (very few, very noobed) for less than 2 months is not considered BETA testing, it's considered as a gimmick



5) all of us are going to buy HL2 anways (and CS:S comes with it supposedly) so why not let us BETA test it

1) I bought CZ about a month after it came out. I didn't feel justified in paying the full retail price, so I found a good eBay auction. My final cost? $18. This was before CZ 1.1, so it really was only the redone maps. I bought it for the deleted scenes, really (I know.. I know, lol). I used to hang out at the Ritualistic forums and got to know some of the developers.. I'd always been looking forward to a scripted, mission based SP for CS that was fun (although Gearbox's version sounded awesome, too bad that never saw the light of day). CZ was exactly that for me. I didn't think MP would get any better, really. It did, and it's getting better with each update. Now, with the announced CS:S beta, it's even better :)

So, to say the price for the quality of the product is in the eye of the beholder. I'd agree, $40 for CZ 1.0 was a bit ridiculous, but I'd be more than willing to pay $40 for how it is now. Even without the CS:S beta.



2) HL2 has been delayed ONCE. VALVe completely over estimated how fast they could finish their work, and they've admitted it was a mistake numerous times.



3) Again, you don't. CS:S beta is a perk to Condition Zero customers. I honestly don't believe VALVe's plans were to get people to buy CZ, but to reward the more loyal CS fans who bought Condition Zero. Besides, if the rumors are true, the beta will last 2 weeks; hardly worth anyone running out and buying CZ to play (or, even all the fuss it's getting).



4) Having played CS for 3 years now, and met alot of equally skilled people in it, I don't see how you figure CZ is "noobed." Clearly, you've never played it, and are basing your opinions around the fact that you're too cheap to buy it. Therefore, since you don't have it, it sucks and everyone who has it are noobs? Alrighty then.. besides, the beta won't last 2 months. You misread nadomola's translated statements. Go read them again.



5) Gabe already said CS:S beta is more of a test to get the source engine out to alot of costumers, but on a more limited scale. They want to make sure there are few bugs to be had, and that the HL2 release goes smooth. Besides, why should you get to beta test CS:S? Again, you haven't exactly been a "loyal" VALVe fan by shafting CZ and acting like they owe you something.

GameHopper wrote..

1) after playing UT 2004, FarCry, BattleField I dont see how you can say that.. unless you havent played these



2) i dont care what they are doing, they shouldnt have lied especially if people are going to be tricked into buying a 3D for a game that wont ever come out



3) You pay for CS:S when you pay for CZ, unless you actually want to play CZ



4) i dont know what you are trying to say here..



Valve seems to be on the right track with CS:S.. the game loooks sweet and they kept the same gameplay elements. I just think they should rethink this whole beta thing and working on communicating with the community better.

1) It's all in the eye of the beholder. For an aging engine (6 years now), CZ is about all you can get out of it for SP. Whether it be TRS' SP or the DS, they're both generally solid. Anyone buying CZ full well knew what it offered, and I commend those who still bought it regardless of the backlash it got from the louder members of the community,



2) You were never forced to buy a graphics card. You should have waited until the game went gold before you did such a thing. Yes, Gabe said ATi is better for HL2, and gave suggestions for which cards to get. He was making these suggestions on the assumption that they'd hit their September 30th release, alas, they missed it. However, I can't seem to understand why ANYONE would upgrade their hardware for a game that hadn't gone gold, or had a huge potential to be delayed. 90% of the community knew it wasn't going to hit the release date, why didn't you? You should've stepped back, looked at the facts, and realized "hey, maybe buying a new graphics card right now isn't the best idea.. I should wait until HL2's release is imminent!"



3) Again, the idea was, more than likely, reward CURRENT customers. Most of the CZ players had no idea CZ users would get CS:S. Therefore, almost everyone out there playing CZ bought CZ FOR CZ. Not for CS:S. There have been many in the past few days who are buying CZ for the CS:S beta, but that's their doing, not VALVe's.



4) The test period is unknown. The latest interviews from Korea stated 2 weeks, but we don't know if this was a translation error or what. Besides, again, Gabe already said it's intended as a source engine test, moreso than a CS:S beta. I can't see why VALVe would need a public CS:S beta, they could make that perfect (bug free, anyway) on their own.



VALVe is doing exactly what it should be doing for beta testing CS:S and the community communication. People who bought HL or CS years ago DO NOT DESERVE PERKS such as this. Give me one good reason why you deserve CS:S beta, one GOOD reason. Not the crap that you'll buy HL2, or that you upgraded your graphics card because Gabe possessed you and told you to do it.

[ThrasheR]

go shuzer!

[[CyW]-=BigBear=-]

If the CS:S beta really is only like 2 weeks I'll sit it out (not buying CS:CZ) even though I'm dying to play CS:S.. Lets hope it's not much longer, I would get very annoyed.. :P

[DeSpiSe Me]

O v e r A n a l i z e d - w 0 0 t

[GameHopper]

Shuzer wrote..

1) I bought CZ about a month after it came out. I didn't feel justified in paying the full retail price, so I found a good eBay auction. My final cost? $18. This was before CZ 1.1, so it really was only the redone maps. I bought it for the deleted scenes, really (I know.. I know, lol). I used to hang out at the Ritualistic forums and got to know some of the developers.. I'd always been looking forward to a scripted, mission based SP for CS that was fun (although Gearbox's version sounded awesome, too bad that never saw the light of day). CZ was exactly that for me. I didn't think MP would get any better, really. It did, and it's getting better with each update. Now, with the announced CS:S beta, it's even better :)

So, to say the price for the quality of the product is in the eye of the beholder. I'd agree, $40 for CZ 1.0 was a bit ridiculous, but I'd be more than willing to pay $40 for how it is now. Even without the CS:S beta.



2) HL2 has been delayed ONCE. VALVe completely over estimated how fast they could finish their work, and they've admitted it was a mistake numerous times.



3) Again, you don't. CS:S beta is a perk to Condition Zero customers. I honestly don't believe VALVe's plans were to get people to buy CZ, but to reward the more loyal CS fans who bought Condition Zero. Besides, if the rumors are true, the beta will last 2 weeks; hardly worth anyone running out and buying CZ to play (or, even all the fuss it's getting).



4) Having played CS for 3 years now, and met alot of equally skilled people in it, I don't see how you figure CZ is "noobed." Clearly, you've never played it, and are basing your opinions around the fact that you're too cheap to buy it. Therefore, since you don't have it, it sucks and everyone who has it are noobs? Alrighty then.. besides, the beta won't last 2 months. You misread nadomola's translated statements. Go read them again.



5) Gabe already said CS:S beta is more of a test to get the source engine out to alot of costumers, but on a more limited scale. They want to make sure there are few bugs to be had, and that the HL2 release goes smooth. Besides, why should you get to beta test CS:S? Again, you haven't exactly been a "loyal" VALVe fan by shafting CZ and acting like they owe you something.



1) It's all in the eye of the beholder. For an aging engine (6 years now), CZ is about all you can get out of it for SP. Whether it be TRS' SP or the DS, they're both generally solid. Anyone buying CZ full well knew what it offered, and I commend those who still bought it regardless of the backlash it got from the louder members of the community,



2) You were never forced to buy a graphics card. You should have waited until the game went gold before you did such a thing. Yes, Gabe said ATi is better for HL2, and gave suggestions for which cards to get. He was making these suggestions on the assumption that they'd hit their September 30th release, alas, they missed it. However, I can't seem to understand why ANYONE would upgrade their hardware for a game that hadn't gone gold, or had a huge potential to be delayed. 90% of the community knew it wasn't going to hit the release date, why didn't you? You should've stepped back, looked at the facts, and realized "hey, maybe buying a new graphics card right now isn't the best idea.. I should wait until HL2's release is imminent!"



3) Again, the idea was, more than likely, reward CURRENT customers. Most of the CZ players had no idea CZ users would get CS:S. Therefore, almost everyone out there playing CZ bought CZ FOR CZ. Not for CS:S. There have been many in the past few days who are buying CZ for the CS:S beta, but that's their doing, not VALVe's.



4) The test period is unknown. The latest interviews from Korea stated 2 weeks, but we don't know if this was a translation error or what. Besides, again, Gabe already said it's intended as a source engine test, moreso than a CS:S beta. I can't see why VALVe would need a public CS:S beta, they could make that perfect (bug free, anyway) on their own.



VALVe is doing exactly what it should be doing for beta testing CS:S and the community communication. People who bought HL or CS years ago DO NOT DESERVE PERKS such as this. Give me one good reason why you deserve CS:S beta, one GOOD reason. Not the crap that you'll buy HL2, or that you upgraded your graphics card because Gabe possessed you and told you to do it.

i think you win by default. I have been overwhelmed by the length of this post. good job.