de_Aztec2 Preview

[David Johnston]

Time for some comments...

ALT+F4 wrote..

Yes, but WHY are they unpopular? Obviously -- as indicated by the percentage you term "successful" -- it's not just because they're new.



de_piranesi, de_chateau and de_havana are all needlessly complicated and, aside from piranesi, relatively dull.

Piranesi is, in my opinion, probably the best recent addition to CS. Very well made, it looks fantastic, but as you say - needlessly complicated. What I love about it though is how I can play it and enjoy it without knowing how to get from A to B. In that sense it contains a subtle sense of 'direction'. It could be better though. Chateau and Havana I haven't played enough to comment.

de_torn has great ambience but de_storm is just too damned dark.

Torn is too complex - of all the missions in CS:CZ, Torn was the only one that took me >20 attempts to win. The rest were easy. I still don't know the layout. I avoid it more than any other map, but appreciate the effort that was put into its making.



As far as I can tell, Storm is basically the Dust layout, but larger, darker, and more confusing (layout isn't everything).

de_rotterdam was less than compelling but at least it wasn't Dust. cs_thunder was amusing and deftly balanced between sniping and CQB.

Rotterdam is the one official map I've never played. Thunder is great fun though - I love its ambience, which I initially thought it lacked. But neither appeal to new players very well.

as_highrise, cs_arabstreets and de_vegas are all classics in their own right, and I've seen some really effective updates of arabstreets. de_foption was too meandering and de_jeepathon2000 was just ridiculous.

Those first three all lacked direction - it was not always as obvious as it should have been. Players should always have a 'feel' for where they're meant to be going, especially on their first play.

as_forest was actually before my time but mildly interesting nonetheless. as_tundra, another classic that out-dusted Dust in its day on some servers.

Forest was fun in the same sense as TFC, which is good. I like that sort of entertainment. But it doesn't appeal to the masses. Same with Tundra.

de_fang I barely remember, as_riverside unimaginative, es_jail too confusing, es_frantic another I barely remember. In the final analysis, though, anything that isn't office or dust is welcome as far as I'm concerned.

Fan also lacked the 'direction' aspect. Riverside was also fun, like Forest. Jail was too dark, a bit too large and mazy. Frantic was fun, but far too large, I loved how open it was though.

Which means very little, I'm sure.

You did a good job categorising them.

[peagle]

n8bowa wrote..

It would be neat to see a few matches where some proffensional clans are placed on levels completely foreign to them. I would like to see their reaction(s) when placed in foreign environments.

popewax|psycho wrote..

lol, first day aztec2 is released, sK vs NOA on it :-x

That would be really cool, it should be an entirely new event they add where top clans scrim on new custom maps, not only would it be interesting for spectators, but it would help push custom map makers into the limelight and give them some more support.



Kind of reminds me of playing descent for the first time, when you didn't know the map and you had to escape in a certain time. A different kind of experience that CS could use. Speaking of which, escape maps are better the less you know them, and speaking of that, bring back es maps.

[I2o[G]uE TacT-X]

I remember de_rotterdam, it was the first map I played when I loaded up 1.5 (yes I know it was released in 1.1). It seemed like a cool map, but it has been years since I played.



I'm sure aztec2 will be an official map, but I wonder if it will go to 1.6 or just CZ.

[asspennies]

jeepathon2k, best map ever!



even better than cs_prison.



For serious, though, I remember having an absolute blast on that map during the alpha testing for beta 7.

[ALT+F4]

Let's also not lose sight of the fact that this is a GAME, meant as entertainment and amusement. If the spirit of adventure and discovery is hijacked in favor of simplicity, repitition and rote for the "pros" who obsess over it we're (the gamers, not the "cyberathletes") as doomed as doomed can be, I must say.

[Whisper.]

CS1.5 - de_piranesi

Great 32 player map, far too big for small matches



CS1.4 - de_chateau, de_havana

de_chateau would have been great if not for the water

CS_havana is a CS map

Poor CS players reject complexity like the plague, I don't think its that hard AND its one of the few CS maps where rescuing the hostages is a viable option for the CT's



CS1.3 - de_torn, de_storm

People who think de_torn is too complicated should should just resign themselves to working a minimum wage job for the rest of their lives.

You people are human right? If you can, try to remember what makes us human and the dominant species on the face of the planet. Its not because we are faster or stronger or bigger or have more numerous offspring or any other particular advantage to everything else on the planet bar 1. You have brains, try to use them.

de_storm not to bad, a bit too dark, could have been a good war map



CS1.1 - de_dust2, de_inferno, de_rotterdam, cs_thunder

dust2 - Classic

Inferno - The other Classic

Both of these maps play well in competitive / pub play, and with the widest numbers of possible player combinations, which is the milestone all maps invariably get judged by.



de_rotterdam - Now if there was a map yould complain that it was too dark this would be it. Moreover the bombsites were too far away so it never gets put into competitive play.



cs_thunder - Another failed attempt at a cs map. Judge a CS map by how often the hostages actually get rescued. In some repects we won't really know how well this map would have gone since there have been changes to the game that would have made the map a lot more playable.



CSb7.0 - cs_office, as_highrise, cs_arabstreets, de_foption, de_vegas, de_jeepathon2000



cs_office - decent CS map good playability and not impossible for the CT's to at least take the T's on.



poor as_highrise, get rid of bugs and flaws in the engine maybe this map might have been a good addition.



cs_arabstreets, never 100% sure why this map never took off. Sure it was dark, but hey, finally a map that made it useful to buy night vision!



de_foption, people complain about complexity with de_torn. Too big too many drama's with built in exploits.



de_vegas, too many bugs, which was a pity as it wasn't too bad.



de_jeepathon2000, give me a friggin break.



CSb6.5 - cs_italy, de_cbble, de_aztec, as_forest, as_tundra



Italy, good CS map could have favoured the CT's a bit more to ensure they got decent position when arriving at choke points.



de_cbble, so close but yet so far. Oh David what did you do? Impossibly one-sided at the time of writing, was previously good for rushing teams, as it required the CT's to commit a large portion of their forces to defending the B bombsite in case the T's rushed there, but in doing so this left bombsite open for a straight rush up the ramp and through the middle.



as_forest, ugly ugly looking map



as_tundra, another map that was so close to getting it right, pity abt it being so white and bright, "Argh!!! My Eyes!!!" Who needs flashbangs with textures like that?



CSb6.0 - as_oilrig, cs_747, de_fang, as_riverside, es_jail, es_frantic



as_oilrig, still with us, if they took out some of the lower T spawns I think it might play even better, a bit exploit ridden though due to failings in the HL engine <shrug>



cs_747, too cramped for pub play, most people don't have a clue, would be interesting to see what competitive teams would do with it, I'd suspect it would become CT one-sided



de_fang, de_what? Came and went or got voted off so fast that it hardly got played



as_riverside, Kind of cool, we didnt get to see it stick around to long though so we will never know



es_jail, es_frantic Oh well, it they were a nice idea at the time.

[-:Nighthawk:-]

Yeah, my bad leaving de_survivor off of that list, and writing de_havana instead of the obvious cs_havana. I was trying to go by memory, and while I had a vague feeling there was a 3rd CS1.3 map, it wasn't striking me what it was. :)



Anyway, the point was that nothing since 1.1 has really made it big, and we're getting to the point now where 1.1 was a long time ago. I'd agree with many of the comments above, but again, I'm just focusing on what the mass community like, not what the CS connoisseur may enjoy.



Your typical CS-Nationalist (or general members) is probably a bit more of a hardcore CS player than most of the hundreds of thousands of CS players out there, so obviously the opinions in here aren't going to really accurately reflect the views of the broad community.



And finally, out of that list, I really liked as_highrise, cs_arabstreets, de_torn, and cs_thunder, but I recognize that the larger portion of the community doesn't like these maps. Torn was relatively easy for me to get down for one reason or another, so I've always been able to successfully play that map and enjoy the attention to aesthetics.



But yeah, in the end, your average CS player likes a simple, straightforward map where it's easy to find the enemy and engage them. Good luck to the custom map servers out there, though -- keep CS imaginative and fun for the minority too. :)

[Deletable_Man]

Edited by [user="34741"] @ [time="1086467223"]

I love Sienna. Vostok is .. OK. Piranesi and Chateau would be better if they weren't so visual oriented and were simpler in layout.



I like Vostok, but some of the passageways seem too crowded for me. Plus the little choke point that you have when the CT's rush right from spawn is just.... blegh.. its like reaching under your chair and touching the evil slime that lives there, blegh!. The bombsites are nice as long as you check your camp spots well when rushing in. Sienna is small and simple, but it seems to lack landmarks if you know what I mean. Everywhere I turn is another generic building or something. Dunno...



Now I started playing CS near the END of 1.3. The first map I ever played on was de_torn and I liked it (maybe because I liked the game eh?) but I just can't bring myself to play it these days for fun. Storm just sucks.



Tides? Retarded map. It's like someone took a BAD fy map, added spawn areas and painted it pretty. peh!



Stadium would be OK if it didn't suck. lol well I mean the thing where the t's are hopping up what is it? A trash can.. then a machine.. then something else to get to the bombsite? I mean, WOW! LAME. It's like the person(s) who made it were trying TOO HARD to have an interesting jump point in the map and it just backfired to Hell.



I just haven't given Fastline enough time I don't think, but first impressions are grim to say the best.



ALL THIS SAID, and yet I do remember a time when I absolutely hated Inferno simple because I didn't know the layout (perhaps I knew it but I couldn't FEEL it, you know? Couldn't be sure where the enemy usually comes from and goes to and to estimate where players would be), but now Inferno has to be my favorite CAL map. :)



EDIT: Just reading some other posts and de_jeepathon2000 was an official map? Are you freaking serious?

[Tek]

"EDIT: Just reading some other posts and de_jeepathon2000 was an official map? Are you freaking serious?"



yep ^^



they made it official because they introduced drivable vehicles in b7 and wanted to show off with them



well, the only map were a vehicles was used in the end was cs_siege, fucked the map up quite royally tho ;D

[Pharlap]

Tek wrote..

well, the only map were a vehicles was used in the end was cs_siege, fucked the map up quite royally tho ;D

ok cmon, you cant say siege with the APC wasnt fun with a straight face can you?

[Tek]

yeah right i was pure fun to be driven over by some n00b or get blown away by 4 nades cauz the APC got stuck and you`re imprisoned in the backroom

[David Johnston]

Deletable_Man wrote..

Tides? Retarded map. It's like someone took a BAD fy map, added spawn areas and painted it pretty. peh!

D'oh...

[-:Nighthawk:-]

Seems like some of the new maps have done alright with CSX, simply because less of the userbase is vetrans. Miami, for instance, seems to be played quite often...



On the subject of jeepathon2000, it's a test map, it's not meant to be an official "play real CS here" map, and they stated as much when they released it.



And finally, I really, really miss driving the APC in siege. Heck, I haven't played that map for the better part of a year... nobody plays it anymore, and I can't help but wonder if the removal of the APC affected that. (Yes, I know it didn't have the APC originally, but it altered the way we thought about siege, and so losing it really took a special fun element away from the map, even if it was buggy.)

[Pharlap]

-:Nighthawk:- wrote..

Seems like some of the new maps have done alright with CSX, simply because less of the userbase is vetrans. Miami, for instance, seems to be played quite often...



On the subject of jeepathon2000, it's a test map, it's not meant to be an official "play real CS here" map, and they stated as much when they released it.



And finally, I really, really miss driving the APC in siege. Heck, I haven't played that map for the better part of a year... nobody plays it anymore, and I can't help but wonder if the removal of the APC affected that. (Yes, I know it didn't have the APC originally, but it altered the way we thought about siege, and so losing it really took a special fun element away from the map, even if it was buggy.)

maybe someone has the old siege and can call it cs_siege_apc as a custom map.

[Sas]

Why is there only 13 spawnpoints for CT and 16 for T ? Is this something U can change yourself or do you need "special" help?