de_Aztec2 Preview

[SteelV]

Aztec 2 looks pretty good, but in my opinion the only way it will be a huge success if it is released officially during the next (or any subsequent) Steam update (i.e. 1.3, 1.4, etc.).



If it is necessary to download the map to play it, it won't become nearly as popular as otherwise.



Either way, it will be a very highly played map, but I just hope it becomes official so that many servers, etc. use it. It seems like a fun map, aztec 1 being one of my personal top 5 already -- I just hope it's official.

[ALT+F4]

"Most people do not have the time nor the desire to spend any larger amounts of energy on running around learning a new map."



I wonder if this is an accurate assessment of the current situation or just a reflection of the limited map fallout since Steam. I, for one, would rather suck on an interesting new map than rule on a stale old one that everyone knows by frickin' heart. At some point they become little more than Matrix code being manipulated by those who no longer see or appreciate beauty or design, but are merely exploiting a perverse intimate knowledge of the architecture.



The eclectic company I find on various custom map servers apparently feel likewise. Playing the same old, tired maps over and over and over may float your boat but it's numbingly repetitive tedium to me. I miss the days of cs_rio, de_predator, de_simpsons and a beautiful map I NEVER saw in server rotation, de_babylon.



Hell, 3DMike is still producing amazing maps that no one seems to be aware of, let alone be playing.

[Spoonman]

I've found learning the new maps in CS: Condition Zero to be a fairly straight-forward affair. However, I think the acceptance of a map has largely to do with it's "is it fun to play online?" factor. But then again, a lot of people seem to like fy_iceworld, a marvel of map-making in the CS community.

[HankPym]

ALT+F4 wrote..

I wonder if this is an accurate assessment of the current situation or just a reflection of the limited map fallout since Steam.

Chateau, anyone?

[-:Nighthawk:-]

New maps?



It's not a new phenomenon for most of the new maps added to be unpopular. Let's take a look:



CS1.5 - de_piranesi

CS1.4 - de_chateau, de_havana

CS1.3 - de_torn, de_storm

CS1.1 - de_dust2, de_inferno, de_rotterdam, cs_thunder

CSb7.0 - cs_office, as_highrise, cs_arabstreets, de_foption, de_vegas, de_jeepathon2000

CSb6.5 - cs_italy, de_cbble, de_aztec, as_forest, as_tundra

CSb6.0 - as_oilrig, cs_747, de_fang, as_riverside, es_jail, es_frantic

...and so on.

(somewhat successful maps shown in bold)



Yeah, it seems like Dust2 and Inferno were the last "new" maps to really make it big, and that was back in the CS1.1 era. Head back as far as like beta 4.0, and you've got 3 of 4 maps (the de_ ones) still getting playtime today. Seems like the old, classic maps are what most of the community grew up with, so to speak. Since they're the ones running most of the servers, that's what new players also cut their teeth on, and so the same maps get perpetuated.



I like custom maps too, but you have to realize that it's very difficult to get fans behind new maps. Aztec2 has a shot just because it's the baby brother of a massively popular map, but even then it may be a long shot. Time will tell, I guess. :)

[Tek]

MikeJ wrote..

Vostok is too complex to be a good CS map. I don't really have the layout down and i have run around it a bit and played it against bots.

I must disagree here. what`s supposed to be so complex? It has 2 straight routes from t-spawn to bombsites, another one over the little bridge. Add the bombsite link and the upper campspot at B and you`re done. Easy, really ^^. The gameflow seems to be pretty good, played it on some pubs and it was well ... fun

[Ghengis]

HankPym wrote..

Chateau, anyone?

My personal Fave

[azz0r]

It looks to cluttered, way to many boxes and walkways, pfft.

[ALT+F4]

Edited by [user="3356"] @ [time="1086342673"]

"It's not a new phenomenon for most of the new maps added to be unpopular."



Yes, but WHY are they unpopular? Obviously -- as indicated by the percentage you term "successful" -- it's not just because they're new.



de_piranesi, de_chateau and de_havana are all needlessly complicated and, aside from piranesi, relatively dull.



de_torn has great ambience but de_storm is just too damned dark.



de_rotterdam was less than compelling but at least it wasn't Dust. cs_thunder was amusing and deftly balanced between sniping and CQB.



as_highrise, cs_arabstreets and de_vegas are all classics in their own right, and I've seen some really effective updates of arabstreets. de_foption was too meandering and de_jeepathon2000 was just ridiculous.



as_forest was actually before my time but mildly interesting nonetheless. as_tundra, another classic that out-dusted Dust in its day on some servers.



de_fang I barely remember, as_riverside unimaginative, es_jail too confusing, es_frantic another I barely remember. In the final analysis, though, anything that isn't office or dust is welcome as far as I'm concerned.



Which means very little, I'm sure.

[MrBo]

I would play as_riverside, as_forest, and as_tundra if I ever saw them in a rotation. Sometimes I wonder why some of the older maps that were played religiously arent played anymore. cs_docks anyone? But then I remember all of the changes that have happened to cs in the past coulple years, all of those changes that the pro-pro mode players talk about in every article they write.



If you really take a look at the maps that are played constantly and the maps that arent you can easily see the difference. The most commonly played maps are pretty basic, most of the time you can run around for a few rounds and get a feel for the layout. There is enough detail to make combat interesting, but not so much that you cant really predict where people should be. The layouts tend to result in a few common "choke" points, and any other fighting area is predictable at specific times, even if combat between large groups of people doesnt occur there almost every round.



de_chateau is a map that defies all counter-strike map logic. I play it when its on and would never leave a server going "omg chateau", but I never connect directly to it when searching for a server to play on. Both of the bombsites are basically the same, one of them being a bit smaller than the other. Maybe if one of the bombsites got an overhaul, they made the mid inside area a little less complex, and took out a bit of the water which makes identifying where people are incredibly easy then it'd see more play.



I dunno though, I've only been playing this game way too long.

[TJ]

-:Nighthawk:- wrote..

CS1.5 - de_piranesi

CS1.4 - de_chateau, de_havana

CS1.3 - de_torn, de_storm

CS1.1 - de_dust2, de_inferno, de_rotterdam, cs_thunder

CSb7.0 - cs_office, as_highrise, cs_arabstreets, de_foption, de_vegas, de_jeepathon2000

CSb6.5 - cs_italy, de_cbble, de_aztec, as_forest, as_tundra

CSb6.0 - as_oilrig, cs_747, de_fang, as_riverside, es_jail, es_frantic

and de_survivor in 1.3, a classic.

[~$Mo]{e~]

I think that a few of you hit the nail on the head so to speak. You can notice that a lot of people only do good on the popular maps (dusts/aztec/office)..you put them in a less played map and they suck. I have cs_docks_v1 on my server and it is awesome.. i think they only reason they took it out of the rotation is the hosties dont behave like they used to. Valve should fix docks and make it an official map. That map would really benefit from the new hostie code.

[n8bowa]

It would be neat to see a few matches where some proffensional clans are placed on levels completely foreign to them. Therefore the outcome would completely rely upon one's personal skill, and almost completely exclude the factor of using your memory of geometry to your advantage. Just seems like a good idea to me considering the best experiences I've had playing various levels were when I was completely new to them. The proffensionals (and probably alot of other CS'ers) know the popular maps by heart. I would like to see their reaction(s) when placed in foreign environments.



Not sure what to say about Aztec 2. I have to play it before I can judge anything, but it seems to stray from the style of CS's official maps. Could be good or bad...

[popewax|psycho]

n8bowa, I completely agree with the whole foreign maps to the professional clans. It'd be an interesting turn of events to see a match on a totally new map.



lol, first day aztec2 is released, sK vs NOA on it :-x

[GameHopper]

loooks smeh -> overhyped.