Jess Cliffe Q&A

[MikeJ]

So the people who take an apathetic approach to games mechanics and community response are more likely to NOT have their views on the game listened to?!!?

[tspoon1066]

The money change to do with timeout is a great addtion.



Its unfair that the CTs should get screwed on a de_ map just because the lame ass remaining T decides its fun to play hide and seek.

[lopinboy]

tspoon1066 wrote..

The money change to do with timeout is a great addtion.



Its unfair that the CTs should get screwed on a de_ map just because the lame ass remaining T decides its fun to play hide and seek.

Do you find it fair that if a CT accomplishes his objective on a CS maps, he gets $10,600 the next round? His teammates get $8,000+.

[Splatula]

Vivendi sucks ass. First they mess with Blizzard and now Valve.



They are on a short road to bankruptcy, and are trying to sell their "gaming empire." Of course any company under their wing will suffer. Time for Valve to jump ship like the blizzard dudes.

[MikeJ]

lopinboy wrote..

Do you find it fair that if a CT accomplishes his objective on a CS maps, he gets $10,600 the next round? His teammates get $8,000+.

Yes because no one gives a damn about CS maps.

[Bokuho]

MikeJ wrote..

Yes because no one gives a damn about CS maps.

Not at all true. Only in e-sports does nobody care about them. Alot of people like them outside of the 'hardcore' gaming community. On a personal level I find them to be more fun and challanging then de_ maps, because a de_ map can, in theory, be won simply be lucking which bomb site the Ts/CTs go to (say Ts plant at site A, CTs come to site B first and they're on the other side of the map, by the time they get to A it could well be too late to defuse. Of course it could be that the Ts decide to rush A, and it just so happens that's where the Cts decided to go too, and the Ts could get wasted in five seconds flat). You can't do that with cs_maps, either you do the mission and every side has a fair chance of winning, or you camp it out and everyone has a fair chances of winning.

[MikeJ]

Outside of the e-sports community is the realm of public play, and money doesnt matter on pubs because it's a free-for-all and you just save till you have enough money to buy a gun; it doesn't matter how many rounds you lose, after 30 minutes the map changes and the fun starts again. That's what i meant about no one caring about CS maps. This change is really only going to make proufound influences in the way league rounds are played, which are all on defusion maps.

[lopinboy]

MikeJ wrote..

Outside of the e-sports community is the realm of public play, and money doesnt matter on pubs because it's a free-for-all and you just save till you have enough money to buy a gun; it doesn't matter how many rounds you lose, after 30 minutes the map changes and the fun starts again. That's what i meant about no one caring about CS maps. This change is really only going to make proufound influences in the way league rounds are played, which are all on defusion maps.

And e-sports makes up how much of this community? Not very much at all. Also, money does matter on pubs, just because you play FFA servers doesn't mean the rest of us do. Some of us do care about how many rounds we win on public servers instead of looking at our K, but the e-sports community are pretty blind when it comes to looking at the majority. As long as their happy, they could care less what the rest of the community wants, even if the community is who buy the majority of the games.

[MikeJ]

Then enjoy the coming update that gives you more money?



My argument is that casual players won't notice the changes at worst, and they will benefit them at best. My argument is a counter argument to lopinboy who seems to think these changes are detrimental to the "majority" of CS gamers, the casual pubbers.



I don't play on FFA servers; i play on whichever public server has the lowest ping and isn't running war3/superhero. I have never seen a demonstration of planned strategy that would suggest enough organization on a pub to take advantage of the money system, currently or in the future.



They never did before, why should they start now? Again these changes aren't passive; you will have to actively work to gain from them.



How many times on a pub have you seen a lone T run and hide to financially harm the counter-terrorist? If you have he was probably just saving his gun.

[lopinboy]

I never said these are detrimental...



All I said is that instead of just fixing bomb maps, they need to fix the whole money system throughout the game. It's unfair to give Ts only $2000 for completing their objective on a hostage map and give all CTs at least $8,000 for completing their objective on a hostage map. That's all I'm getting it. VALVe is focusing on a small area of people and not looking past all the money system problems.

[-:Nighthawk:-]

Alright, a few things here.



As far as the interview was concerned, yes... it did come across as deliberately evasive on some of the questions. You know, mentioning economics changes (a relatively new and unheard-of outcry by a relatively small segment of the community), instead of responding directly to the shield issue, or many other issues like it that any one of us could start listing here off the top of our head.



Admittedly, part of me can't help but wonder if the money change happened (instead of other requested fixes) simply because it's rather easy to change monitary rewards without really programming much of anything. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad for the economics changes, and I'd agree with pretty much everything MikeJ said about them, despite playing on pubs.



However, I'd say everyone here can and would agree that there are many bugs, flaws, or poorly received changes in the game. The question was pretty obviously about these, and that question was ignored and replaced, in my opinion, with another that would produce a more positive answer. Still, in the end that's their PR decision to make. It's not like we're all going to suddenly quit playing CS just because VALVe's PR can suck at times, heh.



Now, onto the cs_ map rescue money discussion...



On cs_ maps, it's pretty dang easy to prevent hostage rescue. Obviously on a pub you'll see a greater chance of hostage rescue, simply because very few pub players patiently wait by the hostages for the CT's to come to them, when round after round the CT's are getting slaughtered far from them. No, instead the T's rush out with their team to give the CT's a warm reception.



However, in a competitive match, seeing as there's frequently only one hostage "site" (or very close groupings), the defending team would not have to spread out so thin against an assault. This gives the defending T's a phenomenal advantage.



In either case, because hostages are so easy to defend, and thus hard to rescue, the incentive for doing so needs to be quite large. If you want the T's to pay attention to their objectives, then you also have to make sure they really don't want the CT's to rescue. On de_ maps there's a slight incentive to defuse (the new 3 frags) or plant to keep the objectives going in pubs.



I'd say the large financial reward for rescues accomplishes the same thing for CS maps. It is rarely given to the CT's, so how much does it really unbalance things?

[gemini]

I totally agree with nighthawk. exept for 1 thing.



"However, I'd say everyone here can and would agree that there are many bugs, flaws, or poorly received changes in the game."



I can agree that there are still bugs and flaws but lets face it no game will ever be PERFECT for everyone. as for the poorly received changes, if u're refering to the shield, everyone kept saying how unfair it is before it came out and now that its here its not really that unstoppable or that much used. (ok bugs are a problem). basically its like a not so leathal not so used not so liked awp :-)

other changes like the end of bunnyhopping have also been poorly received because everyone kept crying out the worst. Its the nature of this community to keep bitching about the worst even before changes are there.



as for lopinboy, this is no different: the money system is not right in your opinion and thats your right but like everything else, it will never please everyone. The changes on de_maps are different in my opinion in that they adress a clear mistake where a winning team would get punnished money wise.



In the end changes like this one where the entire community can agree upon will always be accepted. and changes where people can take a different stance will always get trashed by those who dont like it.



ow yeah happy Winter-een-mas!

http://ctrlaltdel-online.com/

[-:Nighthawk:-]

"I can agree that there are still bugs and flaws but lets face it no game will ever be PERFECT for everyone."



I agree that it will never be perfect. That wasn't the point. It was simply that there remain flaws, and several of those flaws are a) very fixable, and b) recognized by the vast majority of the community.



Example would include the locked p_ump45 and p_sg550 models, the transparent radar being nearly invisible against many sky textures, or the #spec_menu bug, to list just a few. Many of these have existed for years, others are new to CS1.6. It would seem, however, that VALVe is going to address a few of these, even if not all of them will ever get fixed.