mailbag: bad maps

[David Johnston]

Inferno. I just played a game on it.



Is it me, or does it look like crap?



Dust looks better. That's my honest, professional opinion. Dust looks better than Inferno. Inferno does not do the Avanti textures justice at all. So there.



Just had to get that out.

[invazn]

no one hates de_vegas?

[Shadow-Dragon]

{WRA}alex wrote..

no no no.. all these maps you all listed.. sure, they suck, But! the Worst most unbearable, irritating and just plain stupid map that everyone at the cyber cafes plays is that god damn fy_iceworld!!! piece of prehistoric coprolite! Whoever made that map should burn on a pointy stick in campfire from Bangladesh, and have his corpse nibbled on by short and hairy tribal men.,

I know how you feel I play at my server and there always playing RATS WHICH IS A MENACE TO SOCIETY or fy_iceworld WICH JUST PLAIN SUCKS AND IS BORING.

[Windelkron]

Reading that mailbag I think that rizzuh has a big slant towards the CTs. Complaining about Office splitting up the CTs and ancouraging the T rushing? Couldn't be farther from the truth. The CTs can get inside the stairway from the garage, and also the stairway from the APC, before the Ts can. It encourages CT rushing, not T. And thus it encourages the Ts to camp (if you rush as T, the CTs will pop up around the stairwell, and kill you). The only times I see Ts winning that map is if the teams are stacked towards T (don't see much of that nowadays) or if they camp.



I also HATE Aztec now. It used to be a good map back in 6.5. But when it was changed around, it was a change for the worse. Please, it SUCKS now. First of all it's really ugly now due to every crate being a maya ruin block. Then every texture got a whitewash which makes it real bleached looking. Then there's gameplay... the CTs reach EVERY choke point first. The bridge, which is called the "main focal point of the map," is a T massacre spot. The CTs have time to set up positions across the bridge with AWPs and M4s, and the Ts reach the bridge at least 5 seconds later, where upon they are massacred.



Dust is a good map, it's balanced between the teams (or at least it was balanced until the USP was upgraded). The only thing is that it's so overplayed. I am sick of playing it. It really isn't much of a teamwork map, a microphone doesn't help out much, I mean what are you going to say? "Go tunnels" or "Go underpass." It's either rush, or stay behind and try to kill the rushers. And of course snipng at the overpass. Jeez.

[Deadbeat]

I have to defend fy_iceworld. It's fun as hell because of its simplicity, like de_dust. Most importantly you can sharpen your skills with any CS gun you want. No other CS map I've played makes you make tactical decisions on the run. You don't have time to strategize because the enemy's gonna be at your spawn in three seconds.

[abel]

Hmm, I'd have to say possibly the worst maps I've ever played are (many you guys have already mentioned) de_storm, de_survivor, de_torn, de_foption, as_tundra, de_village.



de_storm - way way way too dark. nvg was mandatory unless you super-pumped up your gamma and brightness and monitor settings. not too many strong places to rush (cts barely had to walk 20 steps and they could pretty much nail anyone that passed. the defensive stats for cts was pretty easy, just needed to find the right camping spots and you had it nailed.



de_surivor - almost went snowblind, crunching sound got annoying as hell. gameplay was weird, odd rushing places, odd defending places.



de_torn - speaks for itself, looked like they focused a bit too much on detail and not enough on gameplay. they probably had different ideas for choke points but didnt try to emphasize them enough/force them.



de_foption - god its been too long since ive played this, but im not complaining. the map was way way huge. fun and all, until the second time i played it. all i did was jump to my death..



as_tundra - map was garbage. was too easy for t's just to camp out with awps and have a feel day shooting the moving black dots. was funner as t, but god did i get scared when i was vip. i blame it on players, would probablyhave been a good map if there actually had been people who protected vip (least places i played it at)



de_village - hated the map, the choke points were... well i dont even think there were any except at the bombsites which were tooc lose together.



why did they take out rotterdam? that map was just great. besides fact people cleared out whenever it switched too it, i guess it was too dark. same with cs_thunder, map was fun, really stressed your mind on either side. great map but it was cut?? guess it was cause of the draw distance on the dam part

[bobo51881]

ok, you guys have obviously all lost your minds. There are 2 insanely crappy maps in counter-strike. Siege and Assault. These maps are so horrible that I can't even think about any of the others. I enjoy camping and waiting for the rest of the ct team to die as much as the next man, but these 2 fantastically crappy maps just push my limits. I find it unbelieveable that nobody even mentioned assault in the mailbag.

[Gpig]

Oilrig is by far my favorite map. I love it. That map is just so much fun.



dust-great

aztec-awp whores are only thing that can be annoying

prodigy-close quarters combat

mansion-Well it does suck as a CT but it's alot better than estate

storm-I've always been CT but it's fun

militia-Great T map

inferno-Fun

italy-I like it except for the setting



Those are the other decent maps I like to play. Oilrig is only unbalanced if the CT's don't stick together. Oilrig is still incredibly fun.

[rizzuh]

Edited by [user="2065"] @ [time="1018810485"]

David 'DaveJ' Johnston wrote..

Inferno. I just played a game on it.



Is it me, or does it look like crap?



Dust looks better. That's my honest, professional opinion. Dust looks better than Inferno. Inferno does not do the Avanti textures justice at all.

Diss~ All of narby's maps look pretty, uh, basic. I'm sure he can do better (comrade looks pretty good, in my opinion). I'm sure that dust has a lot of elements removed for the sake of r_speeds rather than beauty. Most of the good CS maps urn fast on almost all setups, if it is related to its popularity or if it just means that the mapper has his priorities straight is another story.



I think inferno has good gameplay. It manages to split the CTs in a way that still encourages teamplay (communication) much like how dust works, even though bombsite B is typically ignored. Inferno works like prodigy in the sense that both bombsites are used quite often.

Windelkron wrote..

Reading that mailbag I think that rizzuh has a big slant towards the CTs.

I do favor CT teams over the terrorists, but when the terrorists are lodged in the hallways, not within 50 feet of the hostages, they have rushed from their position.



Listen you guys can defend office all you want. I've accepted that most of you are looking for DM gameplay. If it's not fun, you say it doesn't encourage teamplay. If it is fun, you play along, bunnyhopping, getting lucky headshots, and degenerating the game one step further. I imagine cliffe does this rationalization as well, because there is no way that office got into CS because of teamplay. It absolutely doesn't occur and it has been proven time and time again that splitting the CTs in a CS map is bad. You split up the defenders, not the rushers.



This assumes that terrorists ever defend the hostages. Ha.

[Gpig]

Dust doesn't look good. It's just the same thing over and over again it seems like. It is brown everywhere(well and green crates). The graphics don't really matter though. I don't understand why mappers care about that so much. If I wanted graphics I'd go play anything but half-life.

[buq.]

cs_docks_v1

[David Johnston]

Diss~ All of narby's maps look pretty, uh, basic. I'm sure he can do better (comrade looks pretty good, in my opinion).

Yes he definetely can, and now does. His NS map looks awesome, and in terms of what Chris could do 2 years ago, he's gone from newbie-blockiness to smooth and fluctuating curves with his designs. It took me 8 years to make that transition, and I still get stuck.

I'm sure that dust has a lot of elements removed for the sake of r_speeds rather than beauty. Most of the good CS maps urn fast on almost all setups, if it is related to its popularity or if it just means that the mapper has his priorities straight is another story.

Nah, dust never needed any optimisation. If anything, it needed more detail. It was built with a limited texture set and so the geometry was twisted to suit this. I would have added more things to it if I had the textures and patience, but I (fortunately) didn't.

Dust doesn't look good. It's just the same thing over and over again it seems like. It is brown everywhere(well and green crates). The graphics don't really matter though. I don't understand why mappers care about that so much. If I wanted graphics I'd go play anything but half-life.

Yes, it is the same over and over again. There are only 15 or so textures. Perhaps less.



But they're used right and consistently, as well as with the geometry. Inferno looks... well, messy. The colours are all out - they don't match well. It's texture choice more than anything else. The Avanti map and TF2 screenshots show what those textures CAN do. Inferno could have used them so much better.



I also have a grudge against the roofs in Inferno. The overhanging 'sharp' edges... ouch. They should be more like Avanti or Cobble roofs... not sharp and overhanging, and with a glue texture (usually) inbetween them and the wall below. Otherwise it looks terrible!



Oh, and I also have a grudge against any map which uses Avanti textures with the Casbah textures. The Avanti ones are bold. The Casbah ones aren't. They're different themes. Don't mix'n'match. It looks ugly. I'd never do it.



But who am I?

[KL_Fatima]

i think that the worst map ever is de_dust. it's like so overused... hasn't everyone gotten tired of playing de_dust yet? i'm already bored of having to play it at a LAN room with around 19 other people who all have AWP's and are just standing or walking around or are crouched or hiding in the spawning area. and that probably makes me the only person who's even moving around the map.



it really does get annoying if you play it for around 8 or so hours straight and i have to pay for that 8 or so hours but really get nothing accomplished because of all the camping idiots??? and to think that the whole frickin' room can accomodate around 40 people comfortably. and they're all playing de_dust and just sitting around the spawning area wasting time camping with AWP's.



there's also this weird bug that players in dust use to cheat. and I totally hate it. every once in a while when I'm playing a T, I suddenly see some jackass CT floating around in the air while shooting us. and the server didn't even change the gravity settings! it's just some guy floating around slowly but is near impossible to kill anyway. that's just another reason why I hate dust so frickni' much.



and I totally disagree with the guys who say that aztec sucks. in my neighborhood, aztec is pretty much the only map where players actually NOT buy an AWP and start running around the map. and for every single day that I play CS, i only get to play on de_aztec about once every two weeks??? so okay, some parts of the map could use some changes, but overall, i think aztec is just fine.

[narby]

It's also worth noting inferno was a map i started even before beta 5, cliffe hinted at me to finish it, but being so close to a beta release i had neither the time to get custom textures of start over. The result is a rehashed rmf and shitty brushwork. I rebuilt inferno (as rizzuh saw) but it conflicted with the timing of the current inferno and since its a CPL map, would be inpractical to replace.



It's true however, it does look like someone was sick in the local chicken tandouri's vacuum cleaner bag and then blasted the contents into handy texture sized pieces.

[gRyPhOn]

Edited by [user="5281"] @ [time="1018814003"]

and i like torn, what the hell is wrong with u guys! how can everyone suck on torn? one team has to win and i don't think u can be mad if u win ! and why didnt EVERY1 say 747 which is so gay the only people that play it are the friends of mine that say "okay 0 gravity and knifes!''



p.s. I FUCKING HATE DE_ RATS SO FUCKING MUCH I COULD MURDER ITS CREATORS WHOLE FUCKING FAMILY............that is if its narby, i am sorry since he has brought us CS players so many good Levels ........ but if its not ......................................