mailbag: bad maps

[The Village Idiot]

I don't understand why so many people on csnation hate torn so much. People tend to think that having so many nooks and crannies is a bad thing. My god, people here are just LAZY; know where your opponents can get to before you and then CHECK THE CORNERS and CHECK YOUR BACK. Slow down if you have to. So many people complain about maps that are fast and death match like, and then you get a map like this which encourages people to either slow down and check the area better, or be more tactical and think of a way to run a different route to get behind your opponent. de_survivor is this exact same way, but on a somewhat smaller scale. I love both maps.



I'm concluding that most people here either like a straight forward rush or a straight forward camp. I like to THINK and STRATEGIZE on a larger scale, which includes the whole map, so the more complicated the map, the better. To all you people who want to rush and not worry about getting shot in the back: deal with it and learn from it. Play smarter and win. It's fun to shoot someone in the back; it's your award for getting behind the enemy and catching them off guard. It's even funner to knife someone in the back!! Ha ha. So go off and be aware of your surroundings and know your enemy.

[aZiAn-X]

maps in 1.4 better not be like survivor, storm, etc..

[I suck]

Deadbeat wrote..



Pansy Ranger wrote..

Eh......AWM/P DO NOT KILL with 1 shot anymore if ya shoot ya enemies limbs.....



Are you still in Beta 7 ?????????????



What I mean is, its still too powerful.

Yeah..... BUT IT has to justify the 4750 bucks spent on it......If ya going to take 2 shots with an AWP..... then I rather spend on a scout which is a good 2000+ cheaper!!!!!!

[[CG]TheHitman]

emilk wrote..



[CG]TheHitman wrote..



No Name wrote..

cs_arabstreets



Are you kidding? I can't believe that that excellent map didn't go official!



It did.

Actually, if I remember correctyl, it didn't go official because Cliffe said the r-speeds were too high. And when Medic fixed the r-speeds, Cliffe still refused to put it in.



I just played Vegas today, and I have to say that that map is downright sh1773h.

[David Johnston]

oblivion is at hand wrote..

All the hardworking CS mappers are going to be feeling down after reading these reviews, mostly the guys who made torn, one of the most visually appealing maps ever.

It's a huge credit to the brothers that they made me think it could overtake Dust. Torn is a work of art in the visual department, and something all CS mappers should take note of. But, alas, the gameplay was not what the players wanted, and the efforts to make it look awesome may have been a touch overdone.

I am trying to master cs mapping, and it's difficult. Point being, anyone who makes a true cs map deserves a fair amount of respect.

Make Dust and you'll realise how easy it can be.



Then try to create a better map and you end up almost wanting to shoot every CS player in sight as you try to grapple with brushes and work out why the hell the map isn't working out.

The only maps that i think suck are the extremely simple deathmatch cs maps. They really should not be in cs, maybe TF instead.

Why TF? CS is no more team-based than TF. I have seen better team efforts in QWTF and TFC than CS. TFC offers methods to help each other (healing, snipering people long distances, rocket-jumping civilians into vents, decoys...) that CS doesn't (err... flashbanging?)



I will just remind everyone that TFC is superior to CS. If you don't agree, you most likely need to play TFC for the next week non-stop and then ask yourself the same question. It's something that you need to gently get into. It's not like CS...

Although i am by no means even comparable to some of the other mappers out there, i try. Hell, it's hard enough getting someone to teach you this stuff, you have to teach yourself.

I'm self-taught here. But it took long enough. You just have to know what to look for - and most importantly, look what other people have done before you.

By the way, i got a question, how old is the average mapper when they start out?

I was 11 or 12 when I started (with Wolf3D). I'm now 19.

[xeshaka]

I would have to agree that tfc offers more teambased play. Just think about it, there are about 9 different types of players to choose from. To work really well, you need a well balanced team. By offering so many types of guys to play with, when they all work together they kick butt! In CS, the only difference in each player is thier skill level. I think cs would be a lot better if instead of just different skinz for each of the four types of players that they would give strengths and weaknesses to each. That way cs could become more for the team. I think the #1 problem with teamplay in cs is the scoring. I know, its great to see your going 47/8 but if your team is 3/17 your not doing much for your other players. I think that they should change the scoring system in cs. No longer should cs score per kill but that the team alone should have one score. I beleive that would make a huge difference in the way people play. Almost anyone can play cs enough to have some good skillz, but how many can work with a team towards a goal and win? Not as many I think. I just hope they do some drastic changes in 1.4 that will give cs a big improvement. If not, I think cs will start to fade.

[Ish]

omfg office sucks so bad

[David Johnston]

I did once suggest that there should be the ability to buy some 'health packs' (but with a more appropriate name) like you would NVG's or grenades. They would allow a player to heal SOMEONE ELSE ON THEIR TEAM by increasing their health by 25-50% (25% sounds best). It'd be a use-once item.



But alas, no one paid any attention...

[oblivion is at hand]

Thanks for the tips Dave J.

[Windelkron]

Teamplay in CS is somewhat a farce nowadays... maps that offer opportunities for "all skills to shine" (read: sniping, CQB) deter from gameplay because half the team stays behind, and half rushes. For this reason stupid maps (not extraordinarily stupid maps i.e. fy_iceworld) encourage teamplay. My example is cs_deagle5. It may get boring after a while but you have to admit that your team actually moves as a team, instead of breaking up and going every which way.



And I would just like to point out, that in terms of teamplay, FLF > all. I mean there's only so much teamplay you can get from a game where if you camp you will win (Ts on cs maps, CTs on bomb maps). [pimp]You can get FLF at flfmod.com.[/pimp]

[Eagle225]

Edited by [user="12412"] @ [time="1018993448"]

im aware that im kinda late on this one but man the inferno rebuild or whatever its called it NICE

i hope to see it released in 1.5 or something

narby hope ya can make the best of that rebuilt inferno

and a quick lil note....if the ts have to bomb a pipeline why not put a chunk of it at bombsite a cus once again *sigh* its crates

Actually, this is something I HAVE been thinking about the past two weeks or so. I'd like to rebuild it to have an average 800polys. I'd use textures with twice the resolution, and add some more rockwork to it (but better than the rocks in Dust2). But the layout an scale would not change. That would be very important.



Why don't I? Because Dust runs on low-end machines better than any of the other maps. People need it. And, I can't.

why dont you do it and just call it dust3?

[STDr-Naperthriller]

Eagle225 wrote..

im aware that im kinda late on this one but man the inferno rebuild or whatever its called it NICE

i hope to see it released in 1.5 or something

narby hope ya can make the best of that rebuilt inferno

and a quick lil note....if the ts have to bomb a pipeline why not put a chunk of it at bombsite a cus once again *sigh* its crates



Actually, this is something I HAVE been thinking about the past two weeks or so. I'd like to rebuild it to have an average 800polys. I'd use textures with twice the resolution, and add some more rockwork to it (but better than the rocks in Dust2). But the layout an scale would not change. That would be very important.



Why don't I? Because Dust runs on low-end machines better than any of the other maps. People need it. And, I can't.



why dont you do it and just call it dust3?

Isn't that because there's already a score and a half dust ripoffs?

[theSILENCE]

The Village Idiot wrote..

I don't understand why so many people on csnation hate torn so much. People tend to think that having so many nooks and crannies is a bad thing. My god, people here are just LAZY; know where your opponents can get to before you and then CHECK THE CORNERS and CHECK YOUR BACK. Slow down if you have to. So many people complain about maps that are fast and death match like, and then you get a map like this which encourages people to either slow down and check the area better, or be more tactical and think of a way to run a different route to get behind your opponent. de_survivor is this exact same way, but on a somewhat smaller scale. I love both maps.



I'm concluding that most people here either like a straight forward rush or a straight forward camp. I like to THINK and STRATEGIZE on a larger scale, which includes the whole map, so the more complicated the map, the better. To all you people who want to rush and not worry about getting shot in the back: deal with it and learn from it. Play smarter and win. It's fun to shoot someone in the back; it's your award for getting behind the enemy and catching them off guard. It's even funner to knife someone in the back!! Ha ha. So go off and be aware of your surroundings and know your enemy.

im not saying all that detail is bad. im just saying that most of the players dont actuly want to play hunt the sniper. for one objectives dont get done. two in my humbled opinion. i think that its a wast of time. i personaly like the map but i cant stand playing it on a 10 person server. there arent enough people even at the max to play the large maps rite.



SILENCE

[Eagle225]

Isn't that because there's already a score and a half dust ripoffs?

yea well call it de_sand :p

[I suck]

Dampv wrote ( too lazy to quote the whole damn thing so I copied :)



de_dust



A great cw map, can suck on public though, I dont think that it is very unbalanced though. But the fact is that a lot o ppl think so, so they all join CT, and often it is like 6 vs 2 during the gunround, so the CTs win, and will continue to win, and then the Ts start to camp, and they lose because of that.

Also a bright map, with not so many crates.



Becos those stupid Ts have no skill. 2 strangers and I completely dominated dust on lan and we are like almost outnumbered

3 - 1 ( 3 Ts vs 7 CTs) and guess what ? our points 26 - 9.



MORE CLEARLY... Ts: 26 pts CTs: 9 pts



Why ? Becos the 3 of us are good in our own right and we use teamwork to h@x0r the other team who are equally good but who have half the teamwork and like to camp too much with their AWPs.