Steam 2.0

[xep]

nix wrote..

1.6 omg



yeah gg l0rd d3st0s

http://toons.cscentral.com/cs11.shtml

Don't make m3 pwnz0r you.

[Rufus!]

Edited by [user="4819"] @ [time="1034749725"]

Ghengis [$ton3d] wrote..

Thanks mate I believe u totally, maybe some fingers need to be removed from arses or something...(Directed at the admin types...) Or there might be some sort of activation mail in which case I cant sort it till im at work.. hmm, anyhoo thanks rufus, I am your ally from now on.............................

*embarresed* Used a wrong link or something Well it got refunded and I just went and upgraded myself :*(

[mouth]

-:Nighthawk:- wrote..

Heh, as much as some high bandwidth people decry the anti-lag netcode, honestly if you were on par skill for skill with a modem user, you'd come up on top every time. If you suck, and don't shoot at them for a while, then their bullets will slam in to where you were, yeah. But, if you both shoot at the same time, your bullets will hit first, and the server will calculate their death before their bullets ever have a chance to get to you.

Yes. Except, no. Have you never seen SummerBlue? The server doesn't know what the hell is going on a lot of the time, sometimes to the point where someone who calls "CHEATER!" every 5 seconds would have a better shot at guessing what hits and what doesn't. It can't even give us accurate bullethole decals, yet you expect it to handle something more complex with any sort of certainty?



"Anti-lag netcode" my fucking ass. "Shared-lag netcode" is more like it. The goal of netcode is to give players an accurate representation of what's going on, but playing against HPBs, you can't see when they fire, or when they pop out to take a potshot with any precision, and that's just flat out inexcusable when i have a connection that allows such precision. The only way the "netcode" makes things "even" -a common canned response of modemers- is because it drags broadband DOWN to its level.

I've played on both sides of the equation, on a T3 in the college dorms, and on my 56k here at my apartment. I never, never had problems wasting modem users when I was on my broadband connection. Most of the time I wondered why they hadn't shot at me at all.

The same can be said for LPBs. This statement means very little other than that people on pubs are usually braindead.

Now that I've done modem play, I understand why. They shot at me as soon as they saw me, but I had killed them before they could see me with their delay.

Modemers can do the exact same thing against someone with DSL. Welcome to the world of too much client prediction.

I seriously can't believe that anyone would whine about playing against modem users... unless it's that they're not enough of a challenge. The BS factor of 5 shots with no hits at point blank goes to their end of the connection, not yours. If your shots are "harmlessly going through them" it's because your aim sucks, not due to the netcode.

Oh, of course. The point-blank knife swipes that i saw miss against an HPB last night did so because my magical aura of suck penetrated my CAT5 cable and intercepted my packets causing my aim to be off even though the other guy's player model was taking up the majority of my screen. RIGHT.



That's what i love about modemers and modemer sympathizers: The basis of anything they have to say amounts to the ever-rational "you suck".

[-:Nighthawk:-]

This is the problem with reports like the SummerBlue one... any random person can read it, misunderstand it, and think they know everything about network code.



Alright, originally you had to manually adjust for your lag, right? So your shots needed to lead the target by whatever time factor your lag was, so by the time the server figured out you shot, then the guy would be where you were aiming (hopefully). Anybody can see that no matter what your connection is, there's a small amount of unrealism due to responses that don't feel right. (Having your bullet holes show up half a second after you shoot really takes away from the suspension of belief.)

The goal of netcode is to give players an accurate representation of what's going on...

The new netcode is designed not to give you an accurate representation of what's going on, as the old netcode did that as best as it could. Rather, the new netcode is designed to make the game seem like it's reacting like it should. So if I see you at a distance running and shoot your head, even if it takes half a second for you to die, you will die, instead of my bullet later splashing somewhere behind you. The same comphensation will be applied to all your bullets, so that no matter what your connection is, if you're on target, you'll score a hit. That is, you'll score a hit as soon as the server figures out you scored a hit.



This said, let's take an example situation. LPB and HPB see each other. In real world time, they both shoot headshots at the exact same instant. The LPB's shot command reaches the server in 25ms, and 25ms after that the LPB sees the HPB die. Meanwhile, the HPB's shot is still in-route to the server, and the server starts sending a death message to the HPB. The HPB's shot eventually reaches the server, but it doesn't matter, because the server already considers him dead. A moment later the HPB sees the enemy shoot and himself die, and wonders "what the... I shot him in the head, way before he shot me... why does he still have 100hp?"



Next situation. HPB is engaging in a battle with MP5's against a LPB. HPB strafes to get out of danger behind corner. He sees himself behind the corner... no, he's dead out in the middle of the hall, because before the server ever got his movement command, the LPB's shots had long since been processed and returned.



Here's the situation that seems like BS to the LPB. LPB is running across a hallway. HPB on far end sees him and shoots him in the head. Fatal shot is still in-route to the server as the LPB thinks he's made it to safety. Had the LPB seen the HPB, stopped, and shot, he would have killed the HPB before the HPB's fatal shot arrived. However, the LPB just ran to cover. The server finally gets the HPB's fatal shot message, and sends a death message to the LPB. The LPB goes "wtf, I'm all the way over here" and gets mad at the HPB.



In that situation, sure, the LPB didn't know they were dead, but it DIDN'T MAKE A DIFFERENCE. The only times the LPB is hurt is when they're inferior to the HPB in skill. Whenever the LPB is near even in skill or better, they will always, ALWAYS come out the victor, it's that simple.



The new netcode doesn't make things "even" or "lower things to the level of the modem players", rather it just gives the modem users the small chance to shoot accurately, provided their enemy doesn't shoot first.



I stick by my original statements. Sorry that you can't shoot accurately enough to utilize your massive ping advantage, and thus the modem users have a small chance against you. Your problem, not mine.

[Ghengis]

Edited by [user="54146"] @ [time="1034757511"]

-:Nighthawk:- wrote..

Yeah, you need to click this link to upgrade your account Ghengis.



That info will be emailed to you, but since I'm a nice guy, and Rufus! is even nicer, there ya go. Oh, and don't forget to thank him in your custom title, eh? If CS-W was still up, I'd tell you to link to it too. :)

Rufus! wrote..

*embarresed* Used a wrong link or something Well it got refunded and I just went and upgraded myself :*(

Hmm so that measn Im not upgraded, I still thank you, and Nighthawk for efforts...Oh and NightHAwk, I agree with your hpb v lpb assessment I am suvch a hpb, and the reason why I unload in someones face and not hit em, is cos I suck... I mean, your not supposed to unload are you, yet To be sureIm getting better at bursts and more accurate as time goes on...BUt it infuriating when you get those wtf? sits when you empty a clip orem no more than a yard into someones chest and cos its n mp5 they have 20 hp left, but their 3 round burst form the ak has shattered your teeth and left a bloody stump where you r head should be.. Having said this, this happening more atthe beginning of a map, and less as I remember.. Oh YEah, Unloading might not be a good idea, having said that, I f ing hate aks and cant get a grip of em myself...*jealous* of akers... almost as bad as awpers.. I am a M4 whore............

[wckd]

Anyway...back to Steam 2.0 since that is what this thread is about... I honestly can't wait till VALVe goes live with the new Steam cause of all the new features that will come out since nothing really big happened in the passed couple additions.



The only thing I am worried about is how the new weapons will effect clan-based play in matches. Since mostly all the clans save for 1 or 2 rounds for the AK and the M4A1. How will the new Galil and the FAMAS interrupt the saving for the money of the AK for T and the M4A1 for the CT?

[mouth]

Ah, yes. Another canned HPB response of "You're jealous that you can't ping rape HPBs", which again gets reduced to "you just suck". Wheee, baseless issue dodging is FUN, isn't it? Tell me, Sherlock, would i be complaining about bullets being ABSORBED by HPBs and if i couldn't hit them? Would i be so adamant in only playing with LPBs if my only desire was to abuse my ping? Hey, is that reason knocking on your door? Better open it so it can bend you over a barrel.



Would i have regularly used fakelag with the old netcode when i felt my DSL was an issue? What, you didn't know about that? Of course not. Do you have evidence of me abusing my ping, or saying that i liked to do so? No? Did it matter? No. Your rebuttal had no roots in what was actually being said.



Oh, gee, and some more canned crap about how the current "netcode" is supposed to work on paper. More fun for all. You're a barrel of monkeys when you're not busy using the comments as an IM chat session. I don't give a flying fuck about what this piece of shit "netcode" is supposed to do. I care about what it actually DOES.



The problem with SummerBlue is that people like you still ardently play dumb to what evidence it DOES have.

-:Nighthawk:- wrote..

Alright, originally you had to manually adjust for your lag, right? So your shots needed to lead the target by whatever time factor your lag was, so by the time the server figured out you shot, then the guy would be where you were aiming (hopefully). Anybody can see that no matter what your connection is, there's a small amount of unrealism due to responses that don't feel right. (Having your bullet holes show up half a second after you shoot really takes away from the suspension of belief.)

Having your bulletholes appear in random spots does too. Being hit after i duck behind a wall by a player who was seen to NOT BE FIRING takes away from my suspension of disbelief even more. So does having a colt spontaneously act like it has the glock's 3-round burst when in the hands of an HPB.

The new netcode is designed not to give you an accurate representation of what's going on, as the old netcode did that as best as it could. Rather, the new netcode is designed to make the game seem like it's reacting like it should.

God, you really are a fucking retard, aren't you? "Hurdurrr, the netcode doesn't tell you what's going on, it tells you what seems to be going on". THAT'S THE PROBLEM, MORON. By your own admission, the netcode is designed to behave inaccurately, haphazardly. Yet, you stick your thick head in the sand and argue that there are no inaccuracies. You're trying to say that it makes sense by not making sense. Thanks for burying your own jackassed argument.



Old netcode: LPBs had an accurate view of the game world, HPBs don't.

Current "netcode": No one has an accurate view of anything, especially when HPBs are immediately present. Server doesn't know shit because it has to make sense of, say, 16 clients, all with different claims as to what's going on. Whee.



1 party having an accurate view vs. ZERO parties having an accurate view. Which is better? HMMMMM, I WONDER.

So if I see you at a distance running and shoot your head, even if it takes half a second for you to die, you will die, instead of my bullet later splashing somewhere behind you. The same comphensation will be applied to all your bullets, so that no matter what your connection is, if you're on target, you'll score a hit. That is, you'll score a hit as soon as the server figures out you scored a hit.

In the genre of FPSes, pin-point accuracy is king. In this little thing we call "reality", one would expect to get hit the instant he gets hit, not get "hit" a little after he gets "hit" because someone ELSE is lacking. Join me there sometime.

This said, let's take an example situation. LPB and HPB see each other. In real world time, they both shoot headshots at the exact same instant. The LPB's shot command reaches the server in 25ms, and 25ms after that the LPB sees the HPB die. Meanwhile, the HPB's shot is still in-route to the server, and the server starts sending a death message to the HPB. The HPB's shot eventually reaches the server, but it doesn't matter, because the server already considers him dead. A moment later the HPB sees the enemy shoot and himself die, and wonders "what the... I shot him in the head, way before he shot me... why does he still have 100hp?"

This would mean something if this is how CS rounds were actually played. This is how the "netcode" works ON PAPER. In practice, this can work both ways. In practice, that paper is good for wiping my ass and little more.

Next situation. HPB is engaging in a battle with MP5's against a LPB. HPB strafes to get out of danger behind corner. He sees himself behind the corner... no, he's dead out in the middle of the hall, because before the server ever got his movement command, the LPB's shots had long since been processed and returned.

Which is essentially the same as the LPB dying after ducking behind cover and THEN getting hit. The netcode does nothing but force EVERYONE to pander to the lowest common denominator. Making things even by spreading the bullshit around is NOT making things even.

Here's the situation that seems like BS to the LPB. LPB is running across a hallway. HPB on far end sees him and shoots him in the head. Fatal shot is still in-route to the server as the LPB thinks he's made it to safety. Had the LPB seen the HPB, stopped, and shot, he would have killed the HPB before the HPB's fatal shot arrived. However, the LPB just ran to cover. The server finally gets the HPB's fatal shot message, and sends a death message to the LPB. The LPB goes "wtf, I'm all the way over here" and gets mad at the HPB.

Probably because he WAS all the way over there. It's fundamentally stupid to force players who HAVE better connections to deal with this shit just because someone else doesn't. With an LPB against an LPB, you actually know what the hell's going on. With an LPB against an HPB, it's a fucking crapshoot. It's like playing dodgeball and being out even though the person aiming for you had hideously slow reflexes, but hit where you WERE. The thrower's slow reflexes are his problem, and no one else should be forced to pander to -or suffer because of- them.

The new netcode doesn't make things "even" or "lower things to the level of the modem players", rather it just gives the modem users the small chance to shoot accurately, provided their enemy doesn't shoot first.

HPBs always had the chance to shoot accurately. And if it doesn't make things even, then there are no justifications for the problems that it causes.

I stick by my original statements. Sorry that you can't shoot accurately enough to utilize your massive ping advantage, and thus the modem users have a small chance against you. Your problem, not mine.

And finally we reach the obligatory "Waaah, waah, i have nothing to back my statements up with, so...YOU JUST SUCK!". How WOULD you people survive without such loopholes?

[Ghengis]

mouth wrote..

If only that was an accurate representation of what you did write... U make valid points but then lose it all in the mess of your anger man, chill the fuck out. You two disagree, cool. There isa no right opr wrong onkly interpretations. IF you are the onlyperosn inthe world to see the truth, then you dont need to question that truth justhold to it dearly. Waht Im sayin is, if your interpretation of events is the ACTUALITY, then somehting would be done, or more poepl may complain, however, It does nto mean that by having lack of support that your reality does not exist. So what Im sayin is everything is subjective, so finally I reach the obligatory (triumphant!)( waah wagh stfu and chill out. And I mean it, cos someone will flip out and cut your head off. adn they wont care,...

[Rufus!]

Was mouth's post as long as I think it was *looks in amazement*



btw Ghengis, I was refunded again and rizzuh sent me a link to upgrade you :p so you should be upgraded Sorry for hassel btw

[Ghengis]

Rufus! wrote..

Was mouth's post as long as I think it was *looks in amazement*



btw Ghengis, I was refunded again and rizzuh sent me a link to upgrade you :p so you should be upgraded Sorry for hassel btw

Many Many many Thanks

[[pr]]

few questions that i could'nt find answers to:

1) how fast is that shield/gun switch? is it like switching from primary to secondary gun, or is there an animation?

2) if i have an awp, and am close enough, can i zoom into the little view slot that a CT w/shield would be looking thru, and kill him with one shot? to me, that would, uh, hurt him. bad. heh

3) does the shield 'recieve' damage? like, would dropping yours and picking up another do anything?

4) what happens when you drop the shield? do you drop the 5/7 also automaticly?

5) what effect (if any) does grenade damage prevent with the shield? any chance a closely thrown nade would 'bounce' right off?



dunno if anyone knows the answers, but was curious...

[FLeK0]

[pr] wrote..

few questions that i could'nt find answers to:

[...]

1. the shield is the primary.

2. yes

3. no, they just can shoot through it

4. dunno if you can drop it.

5. if you throw it on the shield it will fall back a bit



These are just my thoughts about the shield.

[garry]

the slot has a huge chunk of glass in it btw..

[-:Nighthawk:-]

In response to mouth... at this point, all I'm going to say is I've never experienced anything you've talked about in your post there as an LPB for nearly 2 years. Never had a problem with BS that didn't make sense happening to me from HPB's. So, with that in mind, I guess your experiences in CS have been fundamentally different than mine, and as such I really don't feel like trying to argue the point (even if I still am firmly convinced of my own opinions). Feel free to get some sort of last word in here, it really doesn't matter.



As far as [pr]'s questions...



We're still not sure if the 5-7 will fill your secondary slot, or just be all part of the shield/pistol primary slot. So, in other words, we really don't know how switching will work. My instinct is that it will all be part of the primary weapon slot, with your alternate fire button switching between shield up/shield to the side modes.



As far as zooming on the window goes, that aspect really doesn't matter. Imagine the shield is invisible, just shoot the enemy in the head with an awp and he'll likely die. I'm not sure, but chances are the shield will just act like a wall. In CS, all walls, whether concrete or metal or wood or whatever... they all reduce bullet damage by the same amount. So, chances are that shooting the window section of the shield will do no more damage than any other area of the shield... just where on the enemy that your bullet lands is all that matters.



And it's pretty safe to assume that you can drop the shield, as it's just acting as a primary weapon, so you could pick up an M4 or whatever if it was going to be more useful. I have no clue what it'll look like on the ground, though.

[stooopid]

nix wrote..

http://toons.cscentral.com/cs11.shtml

omg... hillarious



who has time to make this shit...