VALVe's Business Cents

[narby]

The purpose of CS retail is it is stand alone. It does not require Half-Life to be installed to run Counter-strike.



Non of the CS maps carry exclusivity copyrights for its authors, they retain creative rights to the level, and cannot be published without a contract between each designer and artist.



The maps do not have ``copyright'' as such, any shmo can make de_dust and drop it into another HL based mod without being prosecuted. Similarly the layout can be used in other non-retail games without being prosecuted.

[bozer]

Edited by [user="37205"] @ [time="1034863620"]

Gary I lost the actual CD itself, not the key. And I wanted to buy CS Retail actually to support Valve. I pirate the hell out of everything except for products I consider worthy of my money. Plus I wanted the box. I love the game.



All Im saying is its better business to put out a product with the least amount of possible bugs. Theres a lot of bugs that have been in CS for as long as I can remember.



Auto Updater never worked for me either.. you no talent ass-clown.

I was unaware that was the reason why those maps didnt come with CS retail. Why is it ok for those maps to come with the mod version (patches)? I know a lot of the people who bought CS retail fealt it may have been better to just buy the HL cd instead.

[narby]

[garry]

keep talking about bugs asshole, how about you back your big fat mouth up with some evidence.



Voicewav didnt come with cs retail either, maybe we should string valve up over that.. and its felt, not fealt. It's quite obvious to me and everyone else that only an idiot would buy cs retail. Only an idiot would suggest you buy a NighHawk instead of a Desert Eagle. Only an idiot would snap Valve's head off for what they try to do.

[CabalSoljea]

garry wrote..

It's quite obvious to me and everyone else that only an idiot would buy cs retail. Only an idiot would suggest you buy a NighHawk instead of a Desert Eagle. Only an idiot would snap Valve's head off for what they try to do.

hehe... i'm an idiot... hehehe....



i bought retail... hehhe... me idiot... hehehe...

[Ghengis]

garry wrote..

keep talking about bugs asshole, how about you back your big fat mouth up with some evidence.



Voicewav didnt come with cs retail either, maybe we should string valve up over that.. and its felt, not fealt. It's quite obvious to me and everyone else that only an idiot would buy cs retail. Only an idiot would suggest you buy a NighHawk instead of a Desert Eagle. Only an idiot would snap Valve's head off for what they try to do.

Whats a NighHawk?

[mouth]

rizzuh wrote..

You confused "not agreeing with gameplay decisions" with "I'm going to think that valve doesn't support a product that it most obviously does."

I've never claimed that they haven't supported it. I've claimed that they've supported it lazily and with sometimes with extremely stupid decisions that had a huge impact on playability. You know as well as anyone else how fucking long it took for them to actually get patches out. The only thing they've proven is that whatever they do, they're going to take as long as possible to do it, yet you're acting like they've slaved over them. Releasing intermittent patches "eventually" is NOT the sterling support you're trying to make it out to be. VAC is the only thing they've updated in a decent time frame, and even THAT took its sweet time in getting here.

I don't care about re-releases and I don't see why you do seem to focus on them so much.

Because people sure as hell aren't buying them for HL SP. It's just flat out lame to continue making money off of rehashes and mods instead of making money off of a new goddamn game. As one of the aforementioned consumers, i find it utterly impossible to not feel jerked around by this company. I also find it absurdly shady to squeeze a game dry instead of giving your fans what you've dangled infront of them for 3+ YEARS.

It's plain business sense to squeeze every penny out of a francise that you can.

Oh fuck you. This is only a valid excuse if you're a fly-by-night operator or if your name is Angel Munoz. It's a great way to alienate the people buying your shit. It's also a good way to say that getting some new sucker to give you that last penny is more important than giving something new to the people that already HAVE.



Secondly, CS IS the franchise at this point. They're mooching off of modmakers and other people who've done far more for HL than they have. DoD and CS from the fan side. From Valve...DMC and craptastic netcode that made saying "They couldn't possibly screw it up more" something you don't say in reference to anything they're doing. Woo. Hoo. I don't care how much money it makes them, it's a shady thing to do.

I find it hard to believe you think that. In fact I doubt you even know what you think.

You seem to have your own ideas about what i think regardless, so you tell me.

Some of you people are clearly Negative Nancies and deserve to be shot. You deserve the lack-luster support you find with almost every other company.

Oh, that's rich.

Enjoy Team Arena.

What's that? Oh, right, the ADD ON made by a company that doesn't release games based on a leap-year schedule and has set the standard for support with its past games (see, i say PAST because they've managed to make MORE THAN ONE). See, id managed to make that after Q3, and the best Valve can do at this point is... Ricochet. Wow. Must be some of that spectacular "Valve support" you were talking about.

JdeFalconr wrote..

Ok enough of the dripping sarcasm. Seriously, I don't think it's a good move on our parts to immediately assume the worst intentions from another party. Now I'm completely open to the possibility that VALVe is just a money-grubbing empire. But come on, we can't just conclude that it's so right off the bat. Show a little gratitude, people, or at least patience, for what anyone, I would think, would identify as hard work done by a company, a fair amount of it undeserved by us and unrequired of them.

What "immediately"? What "right off the bat"? There's been the space of 4 years to see the string of BS interviews, crappy patch schedules, and empty words from Valve. Looks to me like all the hard work in making HL such a long-standing success was due to people who AREN'T VALVE.



Go to McDonalds and order something. Then thank the cashier for selling you whatever you ordered. After that, tell everyone in line behind you that they should show gratitude for being sold something. The ensuing laughter will give you the benefit of hearing just how fucking stupid it sounds.

[Brutus]

Go to McDonalds and order something. Then thank the cashier for selling you whatever you ordered. After that, tell everyone in line behind you that they should show gratitude for being sold something. The ensuing laughter will give you the benefit of hearing just how fucking stupid it sounds.

I think somebody missed nap time.

[narby]

Because people sure as hell aren't buying them for HL SP. It's just flat out lame to continue making money off of rehashes and mods instead of making money off of a new goddamn game. As one of the aforementioned consumers, i find it utterly impossible to not feel jerked around by this company. I also find it absurdly shady to squeeze a game dry instead of giving your fans what you've dangled infront of them for 3+ YEARS.

We all know companies will make sequals to squeeze out the cash, don't for a minute try and pretend the world thrives on producing one off blockbusters and then won't try to capitalize off the sucess.



I assume you think Valve are right now sitting around throwing money in the air deciding what mod to publish to rake in a few extra bucks. Or perhaps when the real world turns up at your door screaming WAKE THE FUCK UP ASSTROLL you may actually comprehend they're working on new things. I'm slightly concerned someone as apparently intelligent as you would honestly believe valve are just biding their time with their ``other'' projects.

[Brutus]

I'm slightly concerned someone as apparently intelligent as you would honestly believe valve are just biding their time with their ``other'' projects.

It is obvious that the key word is "apparently". I have not found anything he has said to be very intelligent. All he does is pick the "devils" side of any issue and then flail away. Nothing special about what he says.



Now I want everyone to keep reading, because mouth is going to come here and say some things that will make me cry, because he is so smart and funny.



Go ahead mouth we are all waiting.

[JdeFalconr]

Edited by [user="2579"] @ [time="1034875577"]

mouth wrote...

What "immediately"? What "right off the bat"? There's been the space of 4 years to see the string of BS interviews, crappy patch schedules, and empty words from Valve. Looks to me like all the hard work in making HL such a long-standing success was due to people who AREN'T VALVE.

You've got a good point that much of VALVe's and HL's more recent success has been due to the mod community. I agree with you there. However, before CS, HL did just fine on its own merits and was a breakthrough in itself. I wouldn't say that its success comes completely from non-VALVe people.



But I don't know much about VALVe's patch schedules, interviews, or words that you've deemed "empty." Why is it that you view all these things as big problems for VALVe? I'm not arguing with your view, especially considering I'm not informed enough to have one of my own on those subjects. I'm just asking you to provide evidential support for these opinions of yours instead of making unsubstantiated claims.

Go to McDonalds and order something. Then thank the cashier for selling you whatever you ordered.

Actually that's an excellent example. I think you and I are looking at it two different ways, though. You see my statement as saying we should thank VALVe for selling us something, and that's not what I was trying to say. I was trying to say we should thank them for their work, especially for the work they didn't have to do. For instance, to follow your analogy, at McDonalds if you ask them for a cup of water or some extra BBQ sauce thingies, they don't have to provide you with them, but they usually will anyway...that's what you thank them for. Or if anything you thank them for the work they've done to produce what you've bought...it's amazing how much of a difference that kind of thing makes to people when you take the time to honestly appreciate them instead of treating them like vending machines.

After that, tell everyone in line behind you that they should show gratitude for being sold something. The ensuing laughter will give you the benefit of hearing just how fucking stupid it sounds.

Really, I have no problem telling everyone else that I think they should follow my lead-I would say it's a categorical imperative. What a subjectivist hypocrite I would be if I didin't want others to do what's right. If people want to laugh at me for it and would rather defraud my character than deal with my ideas (i.e. ad hominim) then their opinions aren't worth anything to me anyway.

[narby]

Mouth has valid points, I'm just tired of hearing about valve the evil corperate machine hell bent on screwing people out of money for ``rehashed'' products, as if they're somehow responsible for peoples free will to buy them.

It's obvious valve are not doing dick right now, but valve has always had a reputation for doing things over and over until they get it right <mouth arguement cue point here> and I believe thats what's happening with their current main projects. They can afford to spend the time in getting it right and it's not the right of anyone else to question that. They're certainly not obliged to shell out a new game once every couple of years, it's their call.



Knowing Valve, I'm sure whatever they release next will be spectacular.

[Brutus]

He must not like car makers to much either.

[Ghengis]

JdeFalconr wrote..

.



Really, I have no problem telling everyone else that I think they should follow my lead-I would say it's a categorical imperative. What a subjectivist hypocrite I would be if I didin't want others to do what's right. If people want to laugh at me for it and would rather defraud my character than deal with my ideas (i.e. ad hominim) then their opinions aren't worth anything to me anyway.

Amen bro, well put, and well met, I salute you sir, for manners in an age of none.

[bozer]

garry wrote..

keep talking about bugs asshole, how about you back your big fat mouth up with some evidence.



Voicewav didnt come with cs retail either, maybe we should string valve up over that.. and its felt, not fealt. It's quite obvious to me and everyone else that only an idiot would buy cs retail. Only an idiot would suggest you buy a NighHawk instead of a Desert Eagle. Only an idiot would snap Valve's head off for what they try to do.