CAL-i 7:2 Results

[DY357LX]

LeRaldo wrote..

First off, Giang wasn't didn't do all that great (I mean, he can do a lot better).



Second, I'm not exactly sure which part of the demo you're talking about, but when you throw a grenade, you can hear noises when it bounces off things. If you hear a grenade coming, of course you're gonna back away. Maybe the grenade didn't make any noises, so what? There could have been a number of reasons why moved.

It's right near the start, the Pistol round. Whole team go to the "box alley" and he goes to the "tank/apc". CT on the roof of office type building throws a flash and as its being primed he backs away. I'm not accusing him of anything but the timing of it was just abit TOO good. There's no "fire in the hole" sound due to distance and by the time the FB bounces, he's safely positioned himself.

As you say he may just be really good, but i gotta ask why are you so keen on defending him?

I'm not having a stab at you or anything, just curious.

[LeRaldo]

I am defending him because I know what it's like to be accused of cheating when I wasn't, it's bad enough when it happens in pubs and what not, but when it happens in leagues it's even worse.



From that demo, there is nothing to incriminate him of cheating. Granted, there is no way of proving he wasn't, but from that demo and his calibur of skill, I honestly don't think he cheats.



Another reason I'm defending him, is because of the way SinaC posted what he did. In my opinion, he shouldn't have done that.

[DY357LX]

I reckon SinaC (Mr Random Number Generator :-P ) will explain himself eventually. He's probably in the USA so it might be awhile yet.

Good old GMT! :)

[LeRaldo]

I'm in the usa :-p

[JOSpot]

I agree with 24, at no point in time was he ever surprised or flashed at any point in the T demo. He ALWAYS knows where they are. It's too bad he couldn't escape that nade that kills him in round 6, if he'd killed all of tec popping out from box to box it wouldn't be a debate heh. When he dies last round, he came out knowing where the CT was and just lost the duel (nobody said he was using aimbot).



I didn't think he was hacking when I viewed it the first time, but the second time (before I read 24's comments) when he does that grab the mp5 and come back to the vent thing.. followed the next round by a brazen 'I know they're all in CT spawn so I won't stick around to spamming the walls' performance, I changed my mind.

[t3wl]

1) WEW has proven themselves on lan. Giang (a.k.a Sub3rror) HAS NOT. Infact he's been caught cheating once (or twice?) before.



2) The demo is comedy, as someone who's watched something like 15 demos from storys like this..I dont see how some of you dont notice the PREFIRE he pulls often. And the pointless avoidance of some TEC players cause he can see them through walls.



3) sf. vs Rival wasn't a "comeback". sf won first half 10-2, then after we won 3 rounds on 2nd half, we pubbed it ;] gg to Rival.



- sf.t3wl



p.s that server DID suck..for everyone (i live in maine) :/

[sinistral]

Well I'm in a CAL-I clan, and that was the most pathetic demo i've ever seen. Nobody fucking plays like that, all the ground aiming, perfect nading on CT, and bullshit prefire. One time he ever prefired so bad he just let himself die cause he knew he had blown it.

[SinaC]

Edited by [user="2964"] @ [time="1036176065"]

redef wrote..

he hacked in a cal-o match against my team (config) too (have demo) :P



cal reviewed the demo and awarded a forfeit win due to suberror blatantly cheating...but they didnt ban him from cal...they just let him move to cal-i.

---------



Comments match won by config

original score 13-11 . Match moved to forfeit due to KOLD-Giang member caught hacking



http://www.caleague.com/?page=match&div=cso&id=71593

From a SoGamed post I made.



LeRaldo, when I watched it with out a wallhack, I thought that it was sketchy. However, there wasn't anything blatant. Then I downloaded a wallhack, and watched both sides. While watching it with a wallhack on, it's just blatant. He goes everywhere at exactly the right times, only goes places where there isn't a guy there, etc. Just too much "luck".

[tec|elude]

There are a few instances where i think it proves he was cheating,



Round 1 If you watch it with wall hack there is a guy on top of the CK3-hut, right when the guy primes a FB and it just leaves his hand Giang turns his head and runs away from the window, also in that round the guy on the hut pulls out a HE gren and right when giang sees that (trough the wall) he turns his head again and runs away from the window the same way as he did when the guy on the hut trew a FB.



2nd, If you notice he always knows when to flank at the right time, and i find it odd that he would wait for so long one round when theres a guy hiding on the lightpost above him, he sits there for about a minute and the guy doesnt drop and eventually he does and sub kills him.



3rd is the mp5 round when he doesnt even see the CT, nor does the CT make any noise but he knew he was in the vent runs and grabs the mp5 and goes back to the vent



There are some other instances where he is siting in the window and someone would peek and he would shoot them in their face before they barely turn the corner (pre fire)



I almost 100% positive he cheats all you have to do is watch with the way he plays with the walls, and as for who ever said he "wasnt playing great" the guy went like 19/1 on T.



As for you other people, saying "watch any CAL-i players demo with a wall hack, they'll look like they are cheating too" ive happened to watch a few CALi players demos with wallhacks some of the more accused cheaters in CALi and they do look like they are bullshit some times because they might get a lucky headshot trough the wall or know where a guy is, but no one ever KNOWS 24/7 (not even 3D) where the guys are, in the T side demo, not once does Sub3rror ever get caught off gaurd.



As for WEW i think its pretty lame of them to go and recruit a guy that had just been CAUGHT hacking by CAL-Admins in CALopen 2 weeks earlier

[kaxman]

Edited by [user="66533"] @ [time="1036189078"]

wow, forget what i wrote earlier. if this guy wasn't hacking, asking him for information about stocks should be considered insider trading.



i don't think there was a single instance where he wasn't either waiting for the enemy to advance past his position so he could flank, or waiting with his crosshairs in just the right spot for the first hit. contrary to the belief held up this thread a bit, i don't think he ever turned them off.



wait, im sorry, he DID have one lucky kill. that time as ct in round...7 or 8 i think, where he was shooting one guy and hit the third guy in the head as he was getting up to retreat and reload.



i can't help but call this blatant. they're right (whoever they are), watch it with a wallhack.



oh i just wanted to add, in regards to what s0phiztry said, his first example. you're right, that was OBVIOUS. i couldn't see it without a wallhack, but the moment the CTs arm pulls back, giang retreats. the round where there was a ct on the skylight, he doesn't advance at ALL. the round where the place was deserted? he runs right the hell in like the place is deserted. and again. and again.



the round where it was fairly obvious he was hacking (he was 12-1 on T iirc), and he just ran in and turned his head because he knew he was done...yeah, that was bad too.



oh, and as for the vent thing, that was no biggie. if you watch, a nade comes out of it and drops on his m8s. he radios them, grabs a gun, and goes back to double check. whoop-de-doo. the first one is explainable, but how about that second one? watch it with a wallhack, you'll see that giang just sits there while the guy advances (walking), and the moment you see a bit of arm he unloads. again, pretty obvious, because he left when he saw the guy wasn't coming back (if you use wallhack you can see the CT runs most way back to spawn, but as soon as the ct turns the corner giang changes his mind about wasting his HE and heads to CT spawn. he never looks back, either.)

[-:Nighthawk:-]

Didn't try it with a wallhack. I know, it's theoretically fine to use without abusing one, but I don't like having that kind of stuff on my computer, just because.



Couple of thoughts. Yeah, the running away from the flashbang on the early T pistol round caught my attention. Dunno for sure, but just watching... it just felt odd. No bounce, nothing to give it away.



The MP5/vent thing. Honestly, that didn't but me at all. You guys claimed there was no way for him to know there was a guy up there. Watching it, even I knew there was a guy up there... a grenade dropped down just a few seconds previous, and there seemed a good chance the guy might try to follow it to flank.



Prefire. Or damn fast reflexes, dunno. I've had good days like that, so I wouldn't accuse over it.



The spamming. As a T, it seemed to be getting a response, so he didn't stop. CT side, nobody was firing back after his first few rounds of spamming, and nobody came that way ever, so he stopped.



Why is he always looking behind those crates if he knows nobody's back there? Perhaps it's a comphensation thing... but most of the time when he shifted his aim toward the edge of the building (where people's heads would show) you could hear the electronic opening of the door leading there...



Honestly, there were a few sketchy moments, but without a wallhack, I didn't see enough to come to any sort of conclusion. Certainly did seem to do some rather dumb things you wouldn't expect from CAL-i players (like running into a seen enemy in the middle of reloading). He did a lot better as a T, definitely.



Anyway... I don't accuse quickly, because I've been accused falsely so many times (just pubbing, but you know how it goes). Certainly people in TEC can't be happy with the outcome. I'm curious what the circumstances were with the CAL-Open cheating?

[Razza]

He knew way to much, as ct, he only ever went down the stairs until the t's were gone, and almost perfectly timed nades down the stairs everytime, no one is that good at predicting where the other team is.



I agree about him turning away before he could have even heard the flash coming in the first round, too good there. There was a lot of prefire.



I can't say this is proof he was hacking, but my opinion is that he had a wallhack on.



I've watched a lot of cal-i demos, and you can tell if they no where the other team is.

[kaxman]

naw, don't watch where he's looking while he's walking, watch his behavior a few instants before an enemy comes around a corner, or he does and is about to face one.



its all in his attitude. little unconcious tics of his crosshairs. he's setting up for a shot he shouldn't possibly be able to know about. like that one time as T where he was camped out in the big door near the soda machines. he kept waving his crosshair from the top level to the bottom level and finally decided to watch long. then a CT started to push a bit. shortly before the ct rounded the corner (crouched and silent), giangs xhair dips a bit towards him and giang fires. that motion disturbed me before i watched it with a wallhack, and even more afterwards.



also, giang clearly doesn't possess some of the traits a cal-i player should. his nading, put bluntly, sucks. his jumping is pretty off, too. i mean, he must've missed with five or six nades in just this one match. that's pretty bad for an invite player. otoh, his nades down the long hall from the steps were ALWAYS placed perfectly; i don't think he ever hit less than two people SOLIDLY. or maybe i'm wrong, and he moved here from germany, where all their grenades have sticks attached to them....

[JOSpot]

made me watch the damn thing again, grr..



the second round, yes he knew someone naded from the vent, but it was 28 seconds from the nade to when he went by with his pistol, saw absolutely nothing there, and five seconds later came back with a very clear intent to kill the now peeking CT. Is it evidence of wallhacking by itself? No, not at all. Taken within the context of his knowing every round exacly who was where and how many of them, though.. you get to draw your own conclusions

[Vaishino]

Watching any demo with a wallhack where a person gets a kill will make it seem like the person's cheating. Every time you kill someone you've either moved toward them, or they've moved toward you and you seemed readyfor it. Of course, yes, it did happen a lot. Well, plenty of evidence ofr both sides of the argument, but he's innocent until proven guilty, so what are ya gonna do?