TEC vs Shockwave Rematch

[Dirk]

Also when he bipassed wwcl there is no telling what other damn commands he was using.



-dp-

[Boomstick]

Edited by [user="126394"] @ [time="1055185423"]

Gooch_GrG wrote..

i don't believe in periods

and it has nothing too do with the amount of advantage he gained

there is a reason the rules are what they are its for a level playing field

he obviously felt it necessary too adjust them so they had too help him in some way no? if no then he is just a retard and even more so for announcing it too the world like he is proud he was able too manipulate wwcl and use his 'adjustments' so much work for something that doesn't help



gg nubz

I'm not disputing the fact that he should be punished and punished severely. I just don't really think a rematch is necessary. As for adjusting the things he did: its far more likely he used cl_bob as a personal preference, rather than some kind of sinister plot to get the edge over his competition as you might be suggesting.



EDIT: I've thought about this issue or a bit longer and now I think a rematch is the right decision. He did bypass WWCL and like Dirk said theres no way to know what else other things he changed while doing just that.

[mouth]

MikeJ wrote..

Anyone who thinks that this should of been let go with a slap on the wrist is slow in the head (or a troll living under a bridge).

Right. And anyone who doesn't is...you. And maybe Vlad the Impaler. That's about it.

I don't think TEC got lucky, and I don't think this is there shot at a "fair match". Would shock of won it without k's config hacks? More than likely yes, those changes don't really mean much. But he broke a straight forward rule and they are fucking lucky they get to replay. And this will set an example to all future players that you play by the book and like it.

Of course. It's just so nice to have THE major online league penalizing teams for no apparent reason other than the complete lack of consideration put into the rules they expect everyone to play by.



What the FUCK are you talking about? Since when did these rules come to be tried and tested over decades of use and refinement? What possible reason do you have for acting like these rules were written in stone and NOT for the benefit of the players?



So, yeah. You've just admitted that they had to replay game that they would've won anyway. This is good for competition how?

Inso[]V[]niac wrote..

he broke the rules. he got the punishment, end of story.

whether or not altering variables gives an advantage is irelevant, rules were broken. maybe CAL should make sure everyone understands the rules b4 participating.

Not "end of story". Whether or not altering certain variables gives a certain advantage is very relevant now. The situation has now brought the rule itself into question, and as a result it's becoming fairly clear that the rule has no purpose. That's a big no-no.



The purpose of rules are to encourage a level playing field, and penalties are for players who've done something bad or damaging to the goal of the league. It's readily apparent that the cvars used did NOT prevent a level playing field and KSpro hasn't actually done anything to damage the tournament, so he and his team are in essence being punished for nothing. THAT'S the problem. Shock was penalized not for their own bad behavior, but for the CAL's incompetence at creating sensible rules.



This is a game. We play it, we have fun. We make little leagues for players who are capable of ripping shit up when they play. In an environment like this, there is simply no justification for being so unforgiving, especially with such unrefined rules. It just ends up bastardizing the point of having rules in the first place, and makes the league AND its administrators look more ridiculous than they usually do.

[vapor (v4p0r)]

Mouth the rules ARE straight forward and they WERE broken. Kspro was basically the team in that match. CAL was TOTALLY reasonable on their decision and shockwave is lucky they get to replay instead of having to forfeit (afterall it does say you can get a forfeit for what he did). I think a lot of you are missing the point. He bypassed WWCL and in doing that there is no telling what other illegal commands he used. And you forget if shockwave gets the win another team is OUT of the playoffs and if they lose the other team is in. In a game as big as that you can't let shit slide. I applaud CAL on their decision.

[Gooch_GrG]

i agree with vapor and mouth is prolly some lil kid who really doesn't understand the simplicity of keeping a level playing field and of course we really don't know what other 'adjustments' he decided too make which I'm sure were plenty since he was the whole team i think he should be banned personally and i think they shouldve gotten a ff but i prefer to rule with an iron fist as i did when i was an admin

chances are that if he was going too make the effort too use bob and drawview I'm sure he adjusted more logically speaking

once again i use no periods ;-)

[MikeJ]

vapor (v4p0r) wrote..

Mouth the rules ARE straight forward and they WERE broken. Kspro was basically the team in that match. CAL was TOTALLY reasonable on their decision and shockwave is lucky they get to replay instead of having to forfeit (afterall it does say you can get a forfeit for what he did). I think a lot of you are missing the point.

that and...



this is pretty much what shockwave wanted. (aside from having to replay the match)

I think we [team shock] pretty much agree on the fact that he broke the rules in that match, and that he should be suspended. We also think the team shouldn't be punished, and I don't think in past cases the team was punished for a config violation. Does one command really affect the outcome of a match?

of course they don't want to forfiet their match, what team would. but they do know their player flat out broke an obvious rule and know there should be a punishment.

[Gooch_GrG]

not only that they know he broke one but who knows how many other he violated

[mouth]

vapor (v4p0r) wrote..

Mouth the rules ARE straight forward and they WERE broken.

Hi. Welcome to what everyone figured out 2 seconds after the first newspost went up, but nimrods like you keep repeating BECAUSE YOU'RE FUCKING STUPID.

Kspro was basically the team in that match. CAL was TOTALLY reasonable on their decision and shockwave is lucky they get to replay instead of having to forfeit (afterall it does say you can get a forfeit for what he did).

And after that would be the part where you suggest why these sentences are true.

I think a lot of you are missing the point. He bypassed WWCL and in doing that there is no telling what other illegal commands he used. And you forget if shockwave gets the win another team is OUT of the playoffs and if they lose the other team is in.

That's so much hogshit it's not even funny. First Shock was penalized for breaking a rule that didn't really matter in the first place, and now you're saying that the team was punished basically for something there isn't a shred proof on. And you're actually defending the CAL with this argument?

In a game as big as that you can't let shit slide.

Seems to have snowballed pretty well so far, between the ruling and these "justifications".

MikeJ wrote..

that and...



this is pretty much what shockwave wanted. (aside from having to replay the match)



of course they don't want to forfiet their match, what team would. but they do know their player flat out broke an obvious rule and know there should be a punishment.

All wonderfully irrelevant to the current topic of discussion, which you seem to be having trouble in finding. This might be explained by the topic being outside of your ass.

[Pharlap]

cmon mouth, there are times where you have interesting opinions to say, but pls dont slag others off for their opinions.

[MikeJ]

Inso[]V[]niac wrote..

cmon mouth, there are times where you have interesting opinions to say, but pls dont slag others off for their opinions.

Yea right.



mouth you're the one who isn't stopping to think here about why written rules shouldn't be punished.



we are all past that. cl_bob is a bit silly of a rule, but to think that there is a problem with players following it absolutely ridiculous. A player has to go out of his fucking way, open up his config, and consciously change it even though the effect is near null of an advantage. And as he is doing all this meanwhile in is head he's thinking

"hmm I wonder what CAL means when they enforce the wwclconfig_check "cl_bob" "0.01" command and what's that mumble jumble in the rule book about 'Teams who violate any rules may be subject to disciplinary action. This includes the specific penalties listed or suspensions, forfeits, replays, removal from the league, and lost off points. The league may change penalties as it sees fit.' Bah who cares i get motion sickness."

If you have a problem with certain rules that CAL enforces feel free to bring it up to the CAL admins and get others to voice their complaints. Change can and does happen, but it's not an excuse to get rule breakers off the hook.



My thoughts on the whole situation is this: CAL wants to keep the playing field as level as possible, and one of the ways they can do that is by keeping the config files as default as possible. So naturally most of these client tweak variables that can give some form of advantage, or are just plane not necessary in league play are to be enforced on default. Now some of these settings are purely cosmetic, and some do try to keep everyone at an equal advantage, however what good is a rule without some sort of punishment to back it up? After all if players could get away with all these minor config tweaks without so much as a slap on the wrist or less there would be no sense in even having the rules in the first place.



I feel sorry for shock because they have such a fucking block head on their team, but they'll get their re match.

[mouth]

Inso[]V[]niac wrote..

cmon mouth, there are times where you have interesting opinions to say, but pls dont slag others off for their opinions.

They get toasted for flat out stupidity, not for having opinions.

MikeJ wrote..

mouth you're the one who isn't stopping to think here about why written rules shouldn't be punished.

You can write just about as well as you can read, apparently.

we are all past that. cl_bob is a bit silly of a rule, but to think that there is a problem with players following it absolutely ridiculous. A player has to go out of his fucking way, open up his config, and consciously change it even though the effect is near null of an advantage.

Opening up Notepad to type one measly line is a far fucking cry from "going out of his way".



You could have a law that decreed that people couldn't step on sidewalk cracks under the penalty of a day in jail. It's simply inevitable that someone's going to say "This is retarded" and deliberately break it not out of spite, but out of indifference. "Someone", in this case, being a person who is capable of thinking for himself instead of tolerating or even expecting other people or institutions to dictate regulations arbitrarily. This is because it's a pointless restriction that serves no purpose other than to hinder preference.



There are only 2 types of people in such a situation:

1) Those who decide to quit walking down the sidewalk like a jackass

and

2) Those that walk down it like they were in a Monty Python skit saying "Woah, buddy! That's a LAW you're breaking!"

If you have a problem with certain rules that CAL enforces feel free to bring it up to the CAL admins and get others to voice their complaints. Change can and does happen, but it's not an excuse to get rule breakers off the hook.

No, it's not an excuse. It's a reason. There's a difference.



CAL administration as well as the forum population have proven to be less than rational in the past. And then there's little bundles of sunshine like you frothing at the chance to offer a continuous stream of Wilde-esque lines like "2bad so sad" and "OMG TI A RULE".



Then there's the fact that if you're going to be in a league like CAL, you'd think that the people running it were capable of realizing their own mistakes regardless of how the matter was pushed.

My thoughts on the whole situation is this: CAL wants to keep the playing field as level as possible, and one of the ways they can do that is by keeping the config files as default as possible.

Unless the variable in question does nothing to make the field uneven, in whichcase they've failed miserably at their goal by outlawing it.

So naturally most of these client tweak variables that can give some form of advantage, or are just plane not necessary in league play are to be enforced on default. Now some of these settings are purely cosmetic, and some do try to keep everyone at an equal advantage, however what good is a rule without some sort of punishment to back it up?

What good is a punishment without a solid reason to back it up? Once you've eliminated the possibility of a distinct advantage even without the rule, you've eliminated the point of enforcing or having the rule and you're just punishing teams for not acting like the CAL is some sort of infalliable, unquestionable god.

After all if players could get away with all these minor config tweaks without so much as a slap on the wrist or less there would be no sense in even having the rules in the first place.

That's the point. If there's no advantage to be had, then there's no sense in even giving them a slap on the wrist. And because of that there ISN'T any sense in having the rule in question in the first place. If players could get away with all these minor config tweaks without tipping the scales of fair play, then who gives a fuck?

I feel sorry for shock because they have such a fucking block head on their team, but they'll get their re match.

I feel sorry for shock because they're in a haphazardly governed circus of a league.

[MikeJ]

Yes the command does not give you much of an advantage we all figured that out the first time you posted it. No, you're the only one who thinks that the team shouldn't be punished. No, we don't care. Cry me a fucking river like you cry to rizzuh about your deleted trolling comments that contribute nothing to this site.



Nobody fucking cares if you spend two days writing a perfect reply on a fan site for a modification to a game that was released over four years ago. I tried for the last time to get any sense out of you but you're hopeless because you chose the opposing side and stick with it firmly because of your superiority complex. Never have I seen you agree with anybody or make any positive comments at all. You contribute nothing to this community in your ever lasting rant on how we fall short of the nostalgic good old days when the internet wasn't populated by idiots and quake TF was the place to be. Do you even like playing Counter-Strike?



The stupidity comment really hurts down here mouth, I mean it's not every day some random punk over the internet calls someone who graduated from high school at age 16 stupid. My gimmick on this page is to be the dancing monkey comment whore, and it surely reflects my academic role in real life. You're gimmick is to find the online community notorious for "retarded morons" and make yourself feel good by beating 8th graders with 12th grade English. Prove me wrong and ask yourself this. "If CAL is a haphazardly governed circus of a league then how can they have the thought process to determine that their ruling on this scenario should be void because the rule created by CAL in the first place makes no sense to the competitive gamer." You see the non sequitur argument you have going here. If you would stop detracting from your viewpoint and bashing your opponent, and start thinking about this logicly you would plainly see that this ruling is here to stay and in order for it to change PEOPLE HAVE TO CONVINCE CAL TO CHANGE IT.



If I really did stop to analyze this whole fiasco of a scandal my viewpoint wouldn't change. It's just a game and in the end as I said, nobody really cares. If the rule was too hard to follow then maybe there would be a problem. Keep in mind you're defending a fucking moron who openly broke CAL rules in a playoff level match and seemed oblivious to any repercussions that might be faced and went on to joke about config hacking on the gotfrag comment page.

[sansouci]

Edited by [user="143389"] @ [time="1055302242"]

WHEN IS THE MATCH?¿?¿DaTe AnD TiMe

oh and where can i watch it if i can

[mouth]

I was under the assumption that we were talking about the events of the news item. Thank you for clearing that up with your last post. I'm now aware that we are and have been, in actuality, working through your emotional baggage.

MikeJ wrote..

Cry me a fucking river like you cry to rizzuh about your deleted trolling comments that contribute nothing to this site.

As opposed to your trolling comments that contribute nothing to this site?



You crossed the line and something was said about it. I'm not exactly sure what was going through your head when you thought that of all people, i was going to keep quiet about it. Cry me a fucking river of your own, sweetheart.