Treyarch: 'Contrarian' Gamers Are Stunting Creativity

[CptainCrunch]

From Gamesutra and many other sites:

The potential creativity of developers is being stunted by "angry entitled fans who look to be contrarian," said Josh Olin, community manager at Call of Duty: Black Ops developer Treyarch.

In an interview with Nowgamer, Olin stated that this contrarian attitude among some gamers is holding creativity and innovation back.

"Too many developers who try new things are getting burned by 'pundits' and angry entitled fans who look to be contrarian, sometimes simply for the sake of being contrarian," said Olin.

"The only thing this attitude aims to achieve is stunt that creativity and innovation even further, which is something that no rational gamer looking to be entertained would want to do."

Olin did acknowledge that "The fundamentals of what Call of Duty is hasn’t changed for years -- and it would be a mistake to mess that winning formula up in any way."

However, he made the point that this foundation should be allowed to evolve with "new experiences." "I think the social culture of video games is moving in a more negative direction as technology and social media continues to grow," he noted.

"Rather than growing with it, the trend seems to be devolving. More and more gamers seem to forget what this industry is all about."

Olin's comments come after UK Consumer group Gamers' Voice reported publisher Activision to the UK Fair Trade Office, claiming that glitches in the PlayStation 3 and PC versions of Call of Duty: Black Ops are in breach of the Sale of Goods Act 1979.

Whether there is a stifling of creatively or not, this did not stop Call of Duty: Black Ops from shifting 8.4 million units in the first month of release, making it the best selling game in 2010 in both the US and UK.

Now this is the type of article that flame wars are made out of. So I ask before you comment to really think about this at a number of different angles and viewpoints.

It is also interesting because just yesterday we were talking about the change in gaming communication a little bit in this thread to about post 44.

Also, this is one question in an entire interview. Click the "Olin stated" link to read the entire interview.

So after thinking about it, does this hold some weight? Could the "angry" gamer be keeping their own games back? Or is this just another excuse to milk the same ole cash cows by the Publishers, who are the real stifflers of the industry? Or is it something else entirely? Could the blame be at a number of different peoples feet? Is there something to blame at all?

Source

[[Expletive Deleted]]

Re: Treyarch: 'Contrarian' Gamers Are Stunting Creativity

Stupid excuse. They just released the 7th freaking game in an Activision series. They expect people to believe that there was ever going to be any innovation there anyway?

There are multiple reasons why people are so negative towards Treyarch about BlOps. It's a buggy, unoptimized PoS. Even people for whom the game runs fine still see client-server sync issues that manifest as poor hit detection and knifing lagaports. When a game only works properly on one platform and the other two are totally neglected, people get pissed. We all spent the same amount, which was the inflated $60 price. Then they make a map pack for $15 before the game even works properly, and only release it on one platform?

BlOps started out with >120k peak players on PC MP. Less than 50k are left. If that doesn't indicate that they did something terribly wrong, I don't know what would.

[Iwantcable]

Re: Treyarch: 'Contrarian' Gamers Are Stunting Creativity

"Too many developers who try new things are getting burned by 'pundits' and angry entitled fans who look to be contrarian, sometimes simply for the sake of being contrarian," said Olin.

God damn all those ****ing fans buying our games and not thinking they're perfect.

I think the social culture of video games is moving in a more negative direction as technology and social media continues to grow," he noted. "Rather than growing with it, the trend seems to be devolving."

You were saying?

The only thing this attitude aims to achieve is stunt that creativity and innovation even further, which is something that no rational gamer looking to be entertained would want to do.

Yeah! Portal and Minecraft are total failures. BioShock sucks. All those WoW haters are really keeping Blizzard down, too.

More and more gamers seem to forget what this industry is all about.

"Creativity", just like Black Ops right?

[CptainCrunch]

Re: Treyarch: 'Contrarian' Gamers Are Stunting Creativity

For those guests that comment on this unregistered, I will not be approving your posts, which means people wont see what you say. Very good arguments, but you should really register to get in on this discussion as well as back up what you are saying.

With that said, going Xbox so that you get a game that works, is a very invalid argument. The game should work across all platforms released. PC pays for servers as well and Im sure the PS3 network isnt free either.

Crunch

[Spik3d]

Re: Treyarch: 'Contrarian' Gamers Are Stunting Creativity

Olin did acknowledge that "The fundamentals of what Call of Duty is hasn’t changed for years -- and it would be a mistake to mess that winning formula up in any way."

Must not have played CoD or UO.

[jake_]

Re: Treyarch: 'Contrarian' Gamers Are Stunting Creativity

The gaming community likes plenty of games perfectly well. If you make a crappy game, people are gonna complain about it more.

[CptainCrunch]

Re: Treyarch: 'Contrarian' Gamers Are Stunting Creativity

All very good points, but what about the thing I like to bring up as an example every time, the BC2 hater because its not BF3? Yes, BC2 has bugs and stupid problems that should not be in the game, but those complaints aside, most people didnt like the game because it wasnt like BF2. So in this situation, would that not affect a developers decision on how much they change the game?

Also, look at CoD4 and, it was smaller, how it wasnt like CoD:UO. IW had to ignore the complaints to even make the game. If they followed what the people wanted, it would have beeen CoD:UO2.

Crunch

[Vreki]

Re: Treyarch: 'Contrarian' Gamers Are Stunting Creativity

The problem with BC2 is that EA took the Battlefield name and plastered it all over the place.
So they try to attract buyers with the Battlefield name, and then when they complain about the lack of Battlefieldiness they get told that it is a different part of the franchise or similar nonsense.

I love BC2, but it didn't need the Battlefield name.

As for Josh Olin: Sorry to hear that we are holding your intellect back.

[Vreki]

Re: Treyarch: 'Contrarian' Gamers Are Stunting Creativity

Btw., what is it with COD and their "Community Managers"?
As I recall, it has been one arrogant son-of-an-unknown-father after another.

[CptainCrunch]

Re: Treyarch: 'Contrarian' Gamers Are Stunting Creativity

I dont know Josh's deal. I actually kinda knew him from the "old days" when he had his site and its not like him to be "this way". Bowling was always a jerk, to put it nice.

I guess if you are in the atmosphere the entire time, it can change someone. Josh may disagree though and say its us who has changed, which is why I thought the article a good one to discuss. Maybe we have also. Its alway easy to say its them, whatever side you sit on.

Crunch

[Vreki]

Re: Treyarch: 'Contrarian' Gamers Are Stunting Creativity

Hell no, we havent changed. Gamers have always been whiny, unappreciative jerks.
Because we are a subset of customers, which have been complaining since the first caveman bought the first club.

But his job as community manager is to calm us down, not antagonize us further.

[[Expletive Deleted]]

Re: Treyarch: 'Contrarian' Gamers Are Stunting Creativity

He's been an arrogant jackass since before WaW released. The entire time he's been in a position to abuse any sort of power, he has done so.

He mocks customers on official forums, when he actually logs onto them, then bans people when they respond to his trolling.

He also claims that "soon" is a real answer to "when?" It's not, it's a joke that he uses to further troll people stupid enough to buy games from his company.

[DunkinSPE]

I have to laugh at this article. Anyone who thinks a game is some kind of magnificent work of art that should be appreciated by all with no critique, needs to take remedial business 101 class. You are a game designer/producer. You are paid to make a game/product. That product will succeed/fail based on how customers feel about the game. As gamers we are the customers/end users. As customers some factors we look at in products are price, quality, ease of use, benefits, availability of substitutes, and functionality. Depending on how well a product meets those needs will determine how we feel about your product.

Businesses that want to continue to create successful products have to listen to their customers comments both good and bad. Blaming the ability to make a innovative product due to comments from a segment of the customer base is just asinine. Innovation and creativity don't guarantee a products success. You have to hit your target market with the right product at the right mix.

Forums are feedback areas for gaming companies. If you don't want the feedback then don't have the forum. But then again customers will voice their opinions regardless of what you do. And gamers are still customers. And PC games are still a product. Buyer meets Seller that's the name of the game...pun intended.

[Anarchy1]

Re: Treyarch: 'Contrarian' Gamers Are Stunting Creativity

What innovation? I'm still playing the same game I did years ago back when there wasn't any complaining.

[GameTraveler]

Re: Treyarch: 'Contrarian' Gamers Are Stunting Creativity

I have to laugh at this article. Anyone who thinks a game is some kind of magnificent work of art that should be appreciated by all with no critique, needs to take remedial business 101 class. You are a game designer/producer. You are paid to make a game/product. That product will succeed/fail based on how customers feel about the game. As gamers we are the customers/end users. As customers some factors we look at in products are price, quality, ease of use, benefits, availability of substitutes, and functionality. Depending on how well a product meets those needs will determine how we feel about your product.

Businesses that want to continue to create successful products have to listen to their customers comments both good and bad. Blaming the ability to make a innovative product due to comments from a segment of the customer base is just asinine. Innovation and creativity don't guarantee a products success. You have to hit your target market with the right product at the right mix.

Forums are feedback areas for gaming companies. If you don't want the feedback then don't have the forum. But then again customers will voice their opinions regardless of what you do. And gamers are still customers. And PC games are still a product. Buyer meets Seller that's the name of the game...pun intended.

Although I'm a little late to this particular thread, these are excellent points! I would add to them, that creativity and innovation thrives better in an open environment. And as more people with the variety of different viewpoints and ideas, a greater chance of more creativity and innovation can be found. Opensource used to be a great buzzword, but looking at how Activision is trying to commoditize every possible item with CoD (like the other half of the house, Blizzard, is doing with WoW and StarCraft), the game is becoming a locked down/closed environment. The loss of modding tools and dedicated servers has resulted in that closed gaming environment.

If creativity and innovation was a lit candle to shine bright, sticking it in a closed box will inevitably extinguish the flame, and only end up in the trash.