Desert Conflict Mod Update - GLTD Demo

[Pennybags]

Re: Desert Conflict Mod Update - GLTD Demo

Well the article you pointed to is 404 and it's an article...not the 10 commandments.

He didn't link it right...

http://www.planethalflife.com/featur...dfocus/02.shtm

[Ahk-Med]

Re: Desert Conflict Mod Update - GLTD Demo

Yes, dismiss my arguments without any insight or rebuttal of your own. My take stands - better to have had people try your mod and "crap" on it, than to never have them see it at all. As always, good luck on your mods guys, I look forward to playing them when you're ready.

[=DNC=SYSEX73]

Re: Desert Conflict Mod Update - GLTD Demo

No more rebutals or arguements please. I dont know why people enjoy doing this to our threads more than others, lol.

[Ahk-Med]

Re: Desert Conflict Mod Update - GLTD Demo

Your thread? I'm sorry to hear thats your attitude.

[=DNC=SYSEX73]

Re: Desert Conflict Mod Update - GLTD Demo

I said "our" thread, as in it came from the developers of this mod. Thats not an attitude, its a simple fact.

I was being light hearted, and just dont see the point in discussing your views on the time release of MODs that arent out yet. This is an update on a laser guidance system, no reason to jump the tracks.

[jimbob]

Re: Desert Conflict Mod Update - GLTD Demo

I've had this discussion before, so I'll just copy and paste my comments from then. It's your mod, if you don't agree thats fine. I'll wait to play it, hopefully there will be someone to play with....

I'm not, nor have I ever been on a mod team. However, I've been playing mods and TCs since Wolfensten 3D. I think that gives me just as much right to comment on the mod scene as the guy who paints textures for mod XYZ.

Mod teams are better off to release early and often. I'm not trying to trick or convince any team to release now, that's their decision. In the long run, if their mod is ever worth playing it will show in a rough release and you'll get the early player support you need. An imperfect model, skin, or map isn't going to be a deal breaker. Don't agree with me? How about Valve Software, you know, the company that has taken in several mods and turned them into sucessful commerical products.

http://www.planethalflife.com/featur...dfocus/02.shtm

We've summarized this MOD development philosophy with the phrase, "Release soon, Release often." Commercial developers work for 2-3 years, release their game, and hope to god people like it. You don't have to make that leap of faith. You can design your whole MOD, write 25% of it and polish it to a playable state, then release it and begin getting feedback immediately.

Not only are you working on a mod for an engine w/ zero developer support, that same developer is doing their very best to ensure the game your modding is tossed in the trash and replaced with a new revenue stream 18 months after release.

The notion that you're bulding a mod for the tiny hardcore community seems foolish. Why do most work on a mod? To show their skills and land a job in development. Wouldn't it be best if your mod was exposed to the largest fan base possible? Every day a release is not made results in less people who will play and/or even hear about your mod.

I think the biggest problem is the mod teams are too ambitious. An example: rather than develop desert and sea warfare maps for your first release, why not stick to a couple desert type maps only and spend your time polishing that? When thats proven succesful you can direct your attention to sea warefare maps. If the polished desert map don't attract and maintain a playerbase, do you really think a sea warefare map with a couple of new models would have saved the mod?

Commercial developers have a hard enough time releasing polished bug free games, what makes mod makers think they can? Again, if your mod is worth playing, people will accept the bugs of earlier releases. AT rockets pass through vehicles and the red teammate bug are still in vanilla, but despite the bitching, people are still playing.

TotalBF2 displays the progress of all kinds of mods on the front page. I'd wager that more than half the mods that have made the front page are never released.

Mod teams can do whatever they want. They don't owe me anything. I simply believe that an overly ambitious long development is the wrong approach. Release early, release often.

Lol - ignorance is bliss...

WE DO WORK ON MOD TEAMS - YOU DONT.
the fact that you are comparing halflife modding (candy modding) to BF2 (infinitely more complex modding) stands to make this quite obvious.

GROW UP. If there is anything more pathetic than the absolute nonsense you have posted it is the fact that you sit there and actually think your opinion is valid when you have ZERO, ZIP, NADA experience in this industry. Its way past your bedtime - let the big boys get back to work...

RELEASING MODS EARLY IS BOTH FOOLISH AND IRRESPONSIBLE - Those of us with ACTUAL EXPERIENCE only have to look to the past to see everything you just said is tripe. If you really had been playing mods as long as you say you have ( as if that means anything) then this would be blatantly apparent to you. But it isn't because you haven't.

END OF DEBATE.

If you wanna b@tch about somone else's mods release date go get some friggin credentials before you start telling us "how it is" (in your little world)

big ups to you DCON - dont let these noobs sway ya...

[Ahk-Med]

Re: Desert Conflict Mod Update - GLTD Demo

Thank you for your insight. I appreciate an inside view of mod development. The heavy handed ******* delivery of said insight is also very informative.

[Sonic Valley]

Re: Desert Conflict Mod Update - GLTD Demo

From that little article you posted...

I agree with the advice about mod design, but it should be emphasized further that the mod's first release has to be good. "Release soon" if you must, but please, please, PLEASE, make that first release a good one. That means that all the NECESSARY features that make the game playable are in place and working properly. It's like meeting people in that the first impression is really important. I can think of a mod or two that ended up with virtually no players or servers due to the first release being too alpha-ish. By the time a better, more reliable version was up, most people had it in their minds that the mod was buggy and not worth playing.

http://www.planethalflife.com/featur...dfocus/05.shtm

I've had this discussion before, so I'll just copy and paste my comments from then. It's your mod, if you don't agree thats fine. I'll wait to play it, hopefully there will be someone to play with....

I'm not, nor have I ever been on a mod team. However, I've been playing mods and TCs since Wolfensten 3D. I think that gives me just as much right to comment on the mod scene as the guy who paints textures for mod XYZ.

Mod teams are better off to release early and often. I'm not trying to trick or convince any team to release now, that's their decision. In the long run, if their mod is ever worth playing it will show in a rough release and you'll get the early player support you need. An imperfect model, skin, or map isn't going to be a deal breaker. Don't agree with me? How about Valve Software, you know, the company that has taken in several mods and turned them into sucessful commerical products.

http://www.planethalflife.com/featur...dfocus/02.shtm

We've summarized this MOD development philosophy with the phrase, "Release soon, Release often." Commercial developers work for 2-3 years, release their game, and hope to god people like it. You don't have to make that leap of faith. You can design your whole MOD, write 25% of it and polish it to a playable state, then release it and begin getting feedback immediately.

Not only are you working on a mod for an engine w/ zero developer support, that same developer is doing their very best to ensure the game your modding is tossed in the trash and replaced with a new revenue stream 18 months after release.

The notion that you're bulding a mod for the tiny hardcore community seems foolish. Why do most work on a mod? To show their skills and land a job in development. Wouldn't it be best if your mod was exposed to the largest fan base possible? Every day a release is not made results in less people who will play and/or even hear about your mod.

I think the biggest problem is the mod teams are too ambitious. An example: rather than develop desert and sea warfare maps for your first release, why not stick to a couple desert type maps only and spend your time polishing that? When thats proven succesful you can direct your attention to sea warefare maps. If the polished desert map don't attract and maintain a playerbase, do you really think a sea warefare map with a couple of new models would have saved the mod?

Commercial developers have a hard enough time releasing polished bug free games, what makes mod makers think they can? Again, if your mod is worth playing, people will accept the bugs of earlier releases. AT rockets pass through vehicles and the red teammate bug are still in vanilla, but despite the bitching, people are still playing.

TotalBF2 displays the progress of all kinds of mods on the front page. I'd wager that more than half the mods that have made the front page are never released.

Mod teams can do whatever they want. They don't owe me anything. I simply believe that an overly ambitious long development is the wrong approach. Release early, release often.

[=DNC=SYSEX73]

Re: Desert Conflict Mod Update - GLTD Demo

Wow, I would like this to get back on topic, but that part of the article really explains it Vance.

[CATIA]

Re: Desert Conflict Mod Update - GLTD Demo

as always, great job DCon. you guys are putting out great looking models, i can't wait to get my hands on the arty vehicles.
if the Devs and testers feel the mod isn't ready to releae, then we must trust and respect their call. STOP WHINING
much <3 to DCon ppl

[jimbob]

Re: Desert Conflict Mod Update - GLTD Demo

^^^ rofl Ahk-Med gets shot down by his own sources.

[Ahk-Med]

Re: Desert Conflict Mod Update - GLTD Demo

I don't know why I bother, but I'll bite.

jimbob,

It's obvious that you don't want to have a reasonable discussion. Your rebuttle is nothing more than "STFU noob, we know better". Why? Because I don't paint textures or I'm "not in the industry"? I've delivered my fair share of development projects, on time and on budget. Two things you wouldn't know about when your development project is just a hobby.

The real problem is you, along with the Sonic Valley/DCON guys automatically assume that if it's not praise, its an attack. Shooting down the poster with a smug, heavy handed admonisment. I understand you guys get alot of **** from ungrateful people, but why don't you point out exactly when you got that from me? My comments regarding the in discussion topic of an accelerated release schedule never mentioned you, DCON, or FH2 directly, but you insist on making it personal and acidic.

Now, like these forums are some kind of elementary school classroom you come up with this gem.

^^^ rofl Ahk-Med gets shot down by his own sources.

You're not gloating like some school yard bully right? You're simply pointing out what a fool I am just in case the rest of the fourm readers missed it. Good thing your here to shine the light for them. Oh, wait, that very same link also says:

One thing in particular which I would like to make a mention of is the comment on "Quality over Quantity". This is by far the biggest problem that I see with most new mods in the community. You need to start small, or you're never going to get anywhere. Don't try to juggle both a single player campaign and a large-scale multiplayer aspect with 50 weapons and 20 player classes at once, because you're going to fail. You can have the most talented, most dedicated team in the world, but everyone only has so much time to devote to your project. With a scale like that, it's literally going to take years to complete, and the chances are high that by the time you're done, very few people will be playing the game you're developing for.

Sounds very similar to the point I was making. I know I'm waisting bandwidth posting that much here, but I'm certain you didn't read the artcle before assuming it destroys my argument. You know the dumbest part is both the quote just above, and the qoute that you believe "shot me down" both come from staff writers at PlanetHalflife, hardly authorities. The quote I used to support my original argument actually came from a sucessful industry player, Valve Software. But hey, what do those noob idiots know, right? They only support some kind of "candy modding" scene...

The worst thing is when you deliver your insulting little rant you drive me to make snide comments like "Will it support bots...". Thats not the atttitude I want to have torwards you or your mod, but your attitude unfotunately wrings that out of me. Thats not why I registered here. So, you win, you're the king of the message board. It's time for you to beat your chest because I'm done here. Good luck with your mod, I'm looking forward to playing it.

[jimbob]

Re: Desert Conflict Mod Update - GLTD Demo

I don't know why I bother.

honestly, after skimming through that nonsense, neither do I

It's time for you to beat your chest because I'm done here.

*thump thump thump* cool! does this mean you'll #### off now?

seriously dude - you waltzed in here, tried to tell an experienced mod team what to do, and you got utterly burned. Accept it, grow up and move on.


oh - and in regards to your "will it have bot support" remark, this is what you REALLY said.

"Will it work with bots? I'm starting to worry there won't be anyone to play with..."

And if you have no idea of what that is implying after all the BS you have been posting, then you sir, are an idiot. :shakehead Go troll elsewhere - your not wanted here.

[=DNC=SYSEX73]

Re: Desert Conflict Mod Update - GLTD Demo

The real problem is you, along with the Sonic Valley/DCON guys automatically assume that if it's not praise, its an attack.

We never took it as an attack, theres no need to praise anyone unless you feel like it, and an opinion or comment is always welcome. Wanting the MOD teams to release as soon as possible is understandable, considering we feel the same way on the development side.

Its just very stated at this point, no need to pull references to prove your theory. Then it becomes more grandstanding, and less like an opinion.

Come over to our site if your interested, were always looking for new friends to our forums. Lets just try and keep to the topics at hand. A debate over this would be better in the general MOD area at the bottom of the forums. Attaching it to updates will get these responses, especially from troopers like Jimbob. You cant really blame him, especially since he speaks out of experience.