Stats and why they seemed somewhat Reversed.

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  • HowieMandel

    #1

    Stats and why they seemed somewhat Reversed.

    Lets face it, we all know, that 99% of the time your top 3 guys on any server, is the tanker, the helo and the airplane folks. Lets not try to pretend that isnt true. It is. Not aways. Just most of the time.
    Most pilots and armor folks, that have posted here, in these forums, have said, that they dont fly, or drive armor for the points, that they simply love using these vehicals, and that the points are just a bonus. Fine. Then if the stats were reworked to lower point counts by these vehicles, then the true armor guys and pilots would continue to still use these.
    I mean How many TK's do I gotta see from a stupid SU pilot droppin 5 clusters at a flag, to simply get 4 or more kills. Killing one team mate isnt even a problem with those odds.
    On the flip side of that coin, I have seen a squad that worked butt off, to cap and maintain a flag against attacks. Only to recieve very low scores at the end of the round. On paper, it looked as if this squad sucked. When in fact, they were key in the winning of the round.
    The focal point of BF2 is and are, flags and the controling of them. However, many pilots and armor guys are NOT intrested in this. They dont care where you are advancing or where you are in trouble. They do care where they can score the biggest amount of points though.
    SO many times i'll see an apc camping the Hotel on Karkland, for cheap easy kills, and high points. Meanwhile all his flags are falling all around him. He dont care. I mean why go kill one or 2 attackers, and get the 1 or 2 point flag cap or recap points. 6 or 8 points????? Screw that hang and camp and get 8 points every 10 seconds, or so.
    It just seems the emphasis is on vehicals. Yes BF2 and previous BF games are about vehicals. HOwever they are all in a supporting role of the ultimate goal. That of which are flags. If you arnt doing the flag thing, then you shouldnt be rewarded for simply spamming on a spawn point with zero incentive to cap or white out that flag.
    Perhaps if more points were awarded to flag captures rather then simply the kills, or at least kills made in spam machines, games could become a bit more chess like. Cuz right now, judging by this forum even, folks just wanna spam mains, annoy folks, and get lame.
    I know i'll be flamed for this post, but.. i mean i suck major d**k in a tank, and even I can get 80 points in one round in one. I mean its soooooo easy. Seriously. Its a joke. Versus the poor bastard keeping flags, with a simple shotgun.
  • rombaft

    #2
    Re: Stats and why they seemed somewhat Reversed.

    It would all be the same, the guys who play the most get most points, wich is actualy perfectly normal , also in a tank it's much easyer to cape flags, so they get the points also, and if flag caping would be awarded with so many points, the top ten would be filled with statpadders, they get server, don't kill eachother just driver around and cape flags, would be just to easy .

    and ideas like a vehicle can't cape a flag is totaly unbalanced, this because the enemey can defent the flag with vehicles but you can't cape them with vehicles, meaning you get unbalance .

    just leave the points system as it is, and don't care for the top whatever players

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    • MeNoPausE

      #3
      Re: Stats and why they seemed somewhat Reversed.

      I will not flame you, I totally agree with what you said. I hate it when I work my ass off with my squad to cap flags and hold them, possibly being the main reason we win the round and who reaps the score benefits and gets the gold medal? Oh yeah, it was some whore in a plane or tank who camped just like what you were talking about. The emphasis is on capping flags, and defending flags. Why aren't the rewards and respect going to those people????

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      • MouseNo4

        #4
        Re: Stats and why they seemed somewhat Reversed.

        Yes i agree. Its sad but true. But i just end my rant soon after i start and learn to live with the ****ers. They stand just outside of flag capture range with a vehicle so that they dont cap it and just spawn camp the poor buggers trying to spawn and defend the flag - even trying to kill the vehicle. The perfect example is an engineer in the hummer right next to the lav who are both outside of flag capture range in karkand.

        Comment

        • IntensivCareBear

          #5
          Re: Stats and why they seemed somewhat Reversed.

          i NEVER play to get flags. 4 lousy points and a 100 percent chance of getting shot while hovering around there?

          i take em if nobodys near em, but i prefer to camp neutral and friendly flags. that is, when enemies show up to take em bam.

          obviously i dont just wait around all day, but really, im not going to advance just to be cut down by 3 pkm whores who spawn behind me.

          i see plenty of the medic/ padder types who drive all over the map, making BF2 into flag whack a mole.

          they should have a flag order, you cant just sneak around and steal one, you need to have firefights, because thats the fun part of BF2, not finding out all but one of your flags have been stolen.

          Comment

          • baggygreen

            #6
            Re: Stats and why they seemed somewhat Reversed.

            I reckon maybe if they jack up the flag cap points to 3 or 4, its enough for that little extra incentive for those who would go out and cap the flags, but not enough to make a huge difference to the overall points-scoring system..

            Comment

            • HowieMandel

              #7
              Re: Stats and why they seemed somewhat Reversed.

              Originally posted by baggygreen
              I reckon maybe if they jack up the flag cap points to 3 or 4, its enough for that little extra incentive for those who would go out and cap the flags, but not enough to make a huge difference to the overall points-scoring system..
              I would beg to differ.
              The number one person in BF2 now has 10,000 total points regarding flag status.
              The number 10 person.... 24,000 total flag points.
              If more points were awarded towards the ultimate goal, the flag, you would see a very big shakeup in positions from the number one guy, all the way down to the last placed guy.

              Comment

              • Jim345

                #8
                Re: Stats and why they seemed somewhat Reversed.

                You were all right until your final statement, that you wanted all this change to make BF2 into a more strategic game, BF2 is not supposed to be a strategic game. Games like Rainbow 6 and Splinter Cell are strategic. This game is fun when you just run around killing and getin killed. The only point to making the whole game system fair to me is that it makes so nobody whores one thing or another. And this is actually done pretty good... Sure theres some vehicles whores but there can only be so many vehicles at a time.
                So actually I don't think I agree with you at all, but you sounded right at first.

                Comment

                • MouseNo4

                  #9
                  Re: Stats and why they seemed somewhat Reversed.

                  Meh nothing will be changed. We are talking about EA/Dice here.

                  Comment

                  • LoganX

                    #10
                    Re: Stats and why they seemed somewhat Reversed.

                    Originally posted by HowieMandel
                    I would beg to differ.
                    The number one person in BF2 now has 10,000 total points regarding flag status.
                    The number 10 person.... 24,000 total flag points.
                    It's because it's easier to Whore some weapon or vehicle for points.
                    Since all the people on the "leaderboard" only care about points, they will use the easiest 'tactics' to get them. And Flags is not it.
                    It's one of the reasons I hate the global stats system and what it's done to BF gameplay.

                    Comment

                    • HowieMandel

                      #11
                      Re: Stats and why they seemed somewhat Reversed.

                      But if it were more strategic it would be more fun. I mean, to say bf2 isnt built for this type of play is, nonsense.
                      Commander. UAV. Arty. Ability to direct squads. VOIP, Certain vehicle placements on certain maps........i mean all this stuff spells out strategic. The minute you talk on VOIP in game and tell a fellow squader to "Lets go this way and try to take the tower, oh, and spawn medic ok, cuz we need on in the squad". I mean, thats what strategy is, in a nutshell. As soon as you join a squad, your hoping for some sort of organization. Which......again, results in strategy. Either by purpose or accident.

                      Originally posted by LoganX
                      It's because it's easier to Whore some weapon or vehicle for points.
                      Since all the people on the "leaderboard" only care about points, they will use the easiest 'tactics' to get them. And Flags is not it.
                      It's one of the reasons I hate the global stats system and what it's done to BF gameplay.
                      Exactly. Thats my point.
                      The number one guy has 10,000 points regarding flag captures/assists/defense.
                      The number 10 guy has 24,000 points regarding flag captures/assists/defense. The seperation in points from these two guys is 100,000 points. Thats HUGE.
                      I mean if flag points were worth more, then simply sitting in a tank and spamming for 1 hour, the shake up in the leaderboards from the top spot all the way to the bottom spot would be pretty unreal. I mean i have 5X less points then the number one guy, yet i have more flag points. I mean if that doesnt scream unbalanced within the stats system, then nothing will.
                      Hey im not all that serious about this guys, not really, i could care. Its just something i thought of, as i was washing the dishes for my lovely, wife, while she was taking care of our beautiful 4 month old daughter. :)

                      Comment

                      • LoganX

                        #12
                        Re: Stats and why they seemed somewhat Reversed.

                        That's why I've always been saying that EA/DICE totally missed the boat when trying to encourage good 'teamplay' with BF2.
                        They've put too much stress (whether they meant to or not) on just points. Not the actual team elements of the game like flag capping and flag defense.

                        Comment

                        • HowieMandel

                          #13
                          Re: Stats and why they seemed somewhat Reversed.

                          Im with you on that one for sure. Points are fine. Its the distribution system they have that kinda ruin it.
                          Another way I just thought of, would be in the way the points are distributed. In a way that too is rather odd.
                          Tank Whore. Kills 30 people in a round. Gets 60 points.
                          Shotgun Guy. Kills 30 people in a round. Gets 60 points.
                          If you really look at this, its kinda absurd, dont you think?
                          I mean shotgun guy deserves more points.
                          Perhaps using this scenerio, shotgun guy gets 3 points per kill with shotgun. Tank Guy gets 1 point per each person killed. However if he actually fights another tank, and wins, he gets his 3 points for that. Mono e Mono.
                          Same with air. Drop 5 cluster bombs and take out 1infanty, 1 point. you kill a piece of armor, 3 points.
                          Perhaps a detailed scoring system based on kit chosen and vehicle chose although lengthly would be better.
                          Like..... AT mine....hummer drives over it, you get 1 point per kill in it. Tank drives over it, you get 3 points per kill. (tanker/gunner) Apc, 2 points per kill in it.
                          hehe it would be a big task but that would be a rockin system.

                          Comment

                          • MeNoPausE

                            #14
                            Re: Stats and why they seemed somewhat Reversed.

                            Originally posted by HowieMandel
                            Im with you on that one for sure. Points are fine. Its the distribution system they have that kinda ruin it.
                            Another way I just thought of, would be in the way the points are distributed. In a way that too is rather odd.
                            Tank Whore. Kills 30 people in a round. Gets 60 points.
                            Shotgun Guy. Kills 30 people in a round. Gets 60 points.
                            If you really look at this, its kinda absurd, dont you think?
                            I mean shotgun guy deserves more points.
                            Perhaps using this scenerio, shotgun guy gets 3 points per kill with shotgun. Tank Guy gets 1 point per each person killed. However if he actually fights another tank, and wins, he gets his 3 points for that. Mono e Mono.
                            Same with air. Drop 5 cluster bombs and take out 1infanty, 1 point. you kill a piece of armor, 3 points.
                            Perhaps a detailed scoring system based on kit chosen and vehicle chose although lengthly would be better.
                            Like..... AT mine....hummer drives over it, you get 1 point per kill in it. Tank drives over it, you get 3 points per kill. (tanker/gunner) Apc, 2 points per kill in it.
                            hehe it would be a big task but that would be a rockin system.
                            That sounds like a good start. Something needs to be done cause camping and whoring, point hungry fools gets tiresome in any game, with less or more bells and whistles. I think EA/Dice were on the right track but the sytem definitaly needs tweaking.

                            Comment

                            • LoganX

                              #15
                              Re: Stats and why they seemed somewhat Reversed.

                              Wow Howie, that is a good start.
                              Even if the point whores stayed they would at least be encouraged to go after the right kinds of targets based on what they were playing.

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