The Claymore Workshop: New Ideas Required

[vbl]

Here are the ground rules for this thread:

1. You are not allowed to criticize an idea without offering a suggestion to improve it or otherwise address the issue. No Devil's Advocates allowed.
2. If a suggestion has been discussed and reasonably proven/disproven, do not bring it up again. You are expected to read all posts before you add any new thoughts.

Now that I've outlined some rules that most people won't follow, let's move onto the subject at hand.

Claymores
I don't really understand why people still think they're unbalanced, but I understand that some folks have had rough times dealing with the new claymores - so some tweaks might not hurt.

There are two Old Ideas (i.e. not welcome here) that folks keep suggesting to "balance" claymores, but they're simply not acceptable. Let's talk about why:

1. Claymores killing (or being detonated by) teammates is not a reasonable way to balance claymores. It's patently ridiculous to make the lifespan and effectiveness of any item reliant on the intelligence and discretion of the rest of the team. No other item functions like that (except landmines, but that's a given) and implementing this function is guaranteed to reduce claymores to inconsequence.
2. Claymores being destroyable by other explosions is not a reasonable way to balance claymores. It's also ridiculous that my claymores can be destroyed in a second by (often accidental) artillery, bombs, jet cannons, helicopter cannons, nearby grenades, or any other explosive projectile. These incidental explosions used to set off claymores through walls, around corners, and in other completely silly ways. I don't expect changes to the basic collision engine, so we're stuck with this limitation.

Making something useless is not "balance". Don't suggest either of these solutions or you will be ridiculed.

New Ideas: Requirements
I want new ideas. We need new ideas. So let's establish some basic rules that we can (hopefully) all agree upon for the sake of suggestions.

• Poorly placed claymores should be avoidable and/or removeable
• Well-placed claymores should be difficult, but not impossible, to evade or remove
• Promoting teamwork is always a good thing
• Good teamwork on one team should not be easily unraveled by a single person on the other team

Feel free to suggest amendments to these basic requirements.

New Ideas: Um, Ideas
My first suggestion to balance claymores is pretty straightforward. It goes something like this:

• Claymores do not detonate as long as enemy players are prone and crawling when they're within the trigger area. Engineers can still disarm claymores as usual.
  
  This adds a tactical element, providing all players with a means to deal with claymores (as long as they're cautious), and promotes the rock/paper/scissors model of one element countering another element (wrench vs claymore).
  
  I'd like to hear your thoughts. Please don't be stupid. :)

[rombaft]

Re: The Claymore Workshop: New Ideas Required

Claymores do not detonate as long as enemy players are prone and crawling when they're within the trigger area. Engineers can still disarm claymores as usual.

this is actualy one very good idea , when you spot a claymore , wich is blocking an alley and there is no way around, you should be able to crawl along them without triggering them .


Or , clauymores are actualy triggered by whire, if you spot a claymore , you should kinda see a wire, and be able to jump over it .

[Hu.Z_of_PLA]

Re: The Claymore Workshop: New Ideas Required

1. If the user of claymore dies his claymore disappears right the way (solves the claymore block on great wall, very annoying).

2. claymore should be able to be disarmed by well placed shots, and I mean well placed (splash damage doesn't count)

[ACE4U]

Re: The Claymore Workshop: New Ideas Required

When a humvee runs over it, the darn thing should blow up, not just smoke. I've seen the power of c-4 and the claymore in my military experience and a claymore would smoke a humvee and tank.:evil: .

[$kelet0r]

Re: The Claymore Workshop: New Ideas Required

hello again
right so constructive comments

I do believe that grenades should detonate claymores - simply because
1. tactical dimension - clearing claymores with grenades will mean that you cannot clear the room or flag ahead with them unless you have a support class beside you
2. claymores are simple explosive devices - they would explode normally

A way of making the claymores less susceptible to instant destruction is to give them health or hit points so that you would need a near direct proximity detonation to take it out

Having friendlies not detonate claymores makes no sense to me - only idiots kept rushing when the mine detection symbol appeared
Like with artillery all mines (anti vehicle and claymore) should not have a points reduction for a team kill

[vbl]

Re: The Claymore Workshop: New Ideas Required

1. If the user of claymore dies his claymore disappears right the way (solves the claymore block on great wall, very annoying).

How about disappearing after 5-10 seconds? Reasonable enough for someone to wait, but without totally removing the ability for the sniper to nab an overzealous enemy post-mortem.

2. claymore should be able to be disarmed by well placed shots, and I mean well placed (splash damage doesn't count)

Please explain. Claymores are destroyable by all small arms?

[Hu.Z_of_PLA]

Re: The Claymore Workshop: New Ideas Required

When a humvee runs over it, the darn thing should blow up, not just smoke. I've seen the power of c-4 and the claymore in my military experience and a claymore would smoke a humvee and tank.:evil: .

claymore smokes a modern main battle tank? were you in the north korean army where they used T34?

[Bluecow003]

Re: The Claymore Workshop: New Ideas Required

I guess one thing that I would like is to be able to more easily see what way the claymore is facing, unless it's already like that and I just can't tell. That way if you do spot one you can go to the back side of it to disarm it more easily. I use claymores quite a bit so I like them, but I think some changes would be good.

Another thing that I would like to see changed is it's blast radius. I was in Warlord one evening and trying to take the TV Station (the one with the flag on the balcony) and I went in the back way. Right away I saw a claymore near the bottom of the stairs so I stayed back against the wall of the back entrance within view of the claymore near the staircase. It had to be at least 20 feet away and it didn't go off right away. Well I guess my powerful vision must have been too much for it because it just went off and killed me even though I was well away from it in the hallway across from the staircase room. To me that's rediculous.

Another thing is that it would be nice to be able to pick them up after you place one in case it didn't go in quite the spot you wanted it. It just seems stupid to not be able to pick it up after you lay it down. I mean you can pick up the grappling hook if it doesn't go where you want it, so want not a claymore?

[$kelet0r]

Re: The Claymore Workshop: New Ideas Required

Another thing is that it would be nice to be able to pick them up after you place one in case it didn't go in quite the spot you wanted it. It just seems stupid to not be able to pick it up after you lay it down. I mean you can pick up the grappling hook if it doesn't go where you want it, so want not a claymore?

the next patch should include this - it wasnt ready for implemetation in 1.2

claymores should be immune to small arms fire - it is a game after all
but well aimed high explosive grenades whould give infantry a chance against them

[vbl]

Re: The Claymore Workshop: New Ideas Required

claymores should be immune to small arms fire - it is a game after all but well aimed high explosive grenades whould give infantry a chance against them

I just don't see this working. Claymores wouldn't be able to distinguish between damage from a nearby grenade vs artillery, bombs, cannon fire, etc.

The only option might be to make the "hitpoints" on the claymore so high that they'd survive a good number of explosions - but they'd also likely require more than one grenade to destroy.

[$kelet0r]

Re: The Claymore Workshop: New Ideas Required

high hitpoints is something i can get on board with - especially seeing as a sniper can only drop 2 claymores at a time, having 2 grenade detonations minimum to blow it up sounds good to me
and by the same logic artillery, bombs, cannon fire would all detonate them as well assuming that they are close enough to do enough damage

[[2bit]Modmaven]

Re: The Claymore Workshop: New Ideas Required

You can only use 2 claymores per death now right (i.e. you CANT be resupplied)? I haven't really found it to be a huge problem. They should explode like anything else if you throw a grenade at it, though. I saw someone clearing out claymore with a buddy that was a medic. He would run ahead setting them off, while medic buddy came along behind and revived him......Pretty darn effective if you ask me.

[vbl]

Re: The Claymore Workshop: New Ideas Required

They should explode like anything else if you throw a grenade at it

No, they shouldn't. I've covered this. Since you didn't read the rules, you get berated:



You are, however, welcome to add onto $kelet0r's comments regarding a compromise.

[Xanthias]

Re: The Claymore Workshop: New Ideas Required

I guess one thing that I would like is to be able to more easily see what way the claymore is facing, unless it's already like that and I just can't tell. That way if you do spot one you can go to the back side of it to disarm it more easily. I use claymores quite a bit so I like them, but I think some changes would be good.

This is the case. The claymores are curved. The Convex side faces the danger zone. The Concave side faces the safe zone.

EX: DANGER!! ( safe

[imported_SpungE]

Re: The Claymore Workshop: New Ideas Required

Hmm... A couple of ideas.

Make claymores destroayble by 50 cal weapons.

Or.

Make Claymores a spotable obejects which can also show up on UAV scans.