How things SHOULD have been nerfed

[SlakTSP]

Air vehicles (all of them)
The reuse time on flares should have been lengthened by a considerable margin. Theres no reason they should be back up and running in 5 seconds. This means that AA missile lock lasts longer and you need to TIME when you fire missiles

AA
Missile DMG should have been increased vs air so that they took off 75% of air vehicle down (important becuase then you just need to get a bit of machine gun on to finish off, or if it was already smoking its dead)

Jumping and shooting
Increase aiming penelty while jumping by 100%, c4, meds, supply, and grenades have a CoF of 0% so it wouldnt affect them.


Snipers- no buff was needed, i have gone 17-0 k/d w/ a sniper. Heres a hint, you shoot the targets who stop, not those running around randomly, this isnt AWPwhore CS

Support- No buff needed, its role is group not lonewolf (like a medic)

AT- Dmg increased vs air on AT weapon so better vs heli's

Meds- Shockpaddle fix needed and was fine

Blackhawk- Decrease time before weapon overheats (thats why it was REALLY overpowered, the amount of fire it had).

[saggyb]

Re: How things SHOULD have been nerfed

Air vehicles (all of them)
The reuse time on flares should have been lengthened by a considerable margin. Theres no reason they should be back up and running in 5 seconds. This means that AA missile lock lasts longer and you need to TIME when you fire missiles

Who the heck needed flares in 1.12, all you needed was to turn. This would not have been enough to stop the jets groundraping abilities which everyone was complaining about.

[Paas]

Re: How things SHOULD have been nerfed

Air vehicles (all of them)
The reuse time on flares should have been lengthened by a considerable margin. Theres no reason they should be back up and running in 5 seconds. This means that AA missile lock lasts longer and you need to TIME when you fire missiles

AA
Missile DMG should have been increased vs air so that they took off 75% of air vehicle down (important becuase then you just need to get a bit of machine gun on to finish off, or if it was already smoking its dead)

Jumping and shooting
Increase aiming penelty while jumping by 100%, c4, meds, supply, and grenades have a CoF of 0% so it wouldnt affect them.


Snipers- no buff was needed, i have gone 17-0 k/d w/ a sniper. Heres a hint, you shoot the targets who stop, not those running around randomly, this isnt AWPwhore CS

Support- No buff needed, its role is group not lonewolf (like a medic)

AT- Dmg increased vs air on AT weapon so better vs heli's

Meds- Shockpaddle fix needed and was fine

Blackhawk- Decrease time before weapon overheats (thats why it was REALLY overpowered, the amount of fire it had).

...anyone else wanna' tackle this? I'm kinda' tired...

No? Ok.. I'll handle it.

Have you lost your ever lovin' mind!? Did you even read this or did ya' just pop it... you know what? No! I'm going to be nice about this one. Don't wanna' get off on a bad leg.

Listen bud. Homey. Amigo. You're flat out wrong. Your changes basically wouldn't have done "anything".

First, Snipers should be able to engage all targets that expose themselves from reasonable range with reasonable accuracy. As it stood before, yes, you could hit stationary targets. Yet, a sniper who has to "only" hit stationary targets isn't worth a damn. You need to be able to down "Anyone!" who leaves themselves exposed.

Second, the problem with an A-T missile isn't it's damage vs. Helos. The problem is it's damage vs. everything but infantry. Infantry it can kill just fine. Tanks? You're looking at upwards of 5 rounds now (Two are bound to go through your target). The A-T rockets need more Speed and more Damage. Maybe two rockets two send a tank back to the graveyard. An APC can take one and a half (One Anti-Tank rocket, and 2 M203s).

Third, removing the ability to jump and shoot was really the only way to correctly tackle dolphin diving. Granted, it still occurs, but not at the level it once was. It's not and offensive tool. Gunfights aren't reduced to "Hop" fest anymore. It's the way it should have been from the get-go.

Forth, Ok. The A.A. is nutty now. Agreed. Yet, it works. It hasn't work correctly since BF2 dropped. It has been a joke, every reasonable pilot knows this. A.A. was "Nothing" to be feared. Simply turn and you win. That's it. All the fancy dive turns and twist people seem to recall weren't ever truely needed to avoid A.A. You just needed to turn.

Now, I agree. Making it a 100% fail-safe weapon is kinda' extreme. Yet, for the time being it's ok. At least until EA realises the true way to fix A.A. is to speed it up. It should fire at about 3 times the Max Speed of a jet. It should also strike a target at up to a 45 degree turn. That would be a nice balance. A pilot would still be all but dead if a lock was aquired, yet Helos' would have a better chance of staying in the Air vs. A.A.

Helos are about the only one who needs the change. As a fighter pilot myself (whenever I stumble into a jet), I still don't fear the A.A. I just simply avoid bombing runs now. Unless they are needed.

{WP}Paas

[SlakTSP]

Re: How things SHOULD have been nerfed

First, Snipers should be able to engage all targets that expose themselves from reasonable range with reasonable accuracy. As it stood before, yes, you could hit stationary targets. Yet, a sniper who has to "only" hit stationary targets isn't worth a damn. You need to be able to down "Anyone!" who leaves themselves exposed.

So then riddle me this. Why oh why are sniper rifles not used by every singly person in an army? Oh ya thats right, THEYRE REALLY HARD TO USE WELL!!! If you didnt have the twitch /skill to kill people on the run b4 you shouldnt be given an AWP to do it.

YOU ARE A NOOB, admit it, if you werent you could use the weapon fine as was

I went a round 17-0 K/D ratio with the sniper. Hell I took a base by placing claymors at each end of a chokepoint and killed people with my pistol. You simply want it to be e-z mode insta kill. This shouldnt be CS, CS sucks.

Second, the problem with an A-T missile isn't it's damage vs. Helos. The problem is it's damage vs. everything but infantry. Infantry it can kill just fine. Tanks? You're looking at upwards of 5 rounds now (Two are bound to go through your target). The A-T rockets need more Speed and more Damage. Maybe two rockets two send a tank back to the graveyard. An APC can take one and a half (One Anti-Tank rocket, and 2 M203s).

Your kidding right?
Tanks before 1.2 (i dont care about after) were dead in 3 shots
APC 2
And their speed is made up by the fact that you can contol them while in flight.

Third, removing the ability to jump and shoot was really the only way to correctly tackle dolphin diving. Granted, it still occurs, but not at the level it once was. It's not and offensive tool. Gunfights aren't reduced to "Hop" fest anymore. It's the way it should have been from the get-go.

No, it was the only way to remove it without spending more than 30 seconds working on a real fix. Its half-assed.

PS Dolphin diving =/ hopping and falling to the ground IS an offensive tactic. Pls find me a military guy that will say you should fire standing up (um no) you drop to the groudn and shoot in less than a second.

The key? Aim at their feet...

Forth, Ok. The A.A. is nutty now. Agreed. Yet, it works. It hasn't work correctly since BF2 dropped. It has been a joke, every reasonable pilot knows this. A .A. was "Nothing" to be feared. Simply turn and you win. That's it. All the fancy dive turns and twist people seem to recall weren't ever truely needed to avoid A.A. You just needed to turn.

That explains why I've seen pilots NAIL me w/ AA while twisting and turning, and how Ive learned to NAIL people twisting and turning. The trick? It was waiting for them to pull out of a turn AND there were certain point in the turn where it would it. But noobs dont know how to do this becuase NOOBS NEVER WANT TO SPEND THE TIME TO LEARN HOW TO USE THINGS.

Oh, and AA was the SAME way. Wait until the BH pulled out a certain way and bam it was down. AND ALSO, if a BH is dodging missiles its not shooting you players, so its as good as fine. ALSO try WAITING to shoot and NOT GIVING AWAY YOUR POSITION to pilots.

Now, I agree. Making it a 100% fail-safe weapon is kinda' extreme. Yet, for the time being it's ok. At least until EA realises the true way to fix A.A. is to speed it up. It should fire at about 3 times the Max Speed of a jet. It should also strike a target at up to a 45 degree turn. That would be a nice balance. A pilot would still be all but dead if a lock was aquired, yet Helos' would have a better chance of staying in the Air vs. A.A.

I agree, but i think its more of a testament to a poor line of coding than anything. AA should kill planes, however it should not be fire and forget. If you need a LOCK to get an AA missile then you should have to maintain the said lock. Which would even make Dogfights better becuase then its not only getting behind your enemy but staying behind too.

Helos are about the only one who needs the change. As a fighter pilot myself (whenever I stumble into a jet), I still don't fear the A.A. I just simply avoid bombing runs now. Unless they are needed.

{WP}Paas[/quote]

[SlakTSP]

Re: How things SHOULD have been nerfed

Who the heck needed flares in 1.12, all you needed was to turn. This would not have been enough to stop the jets groundraping abilities which everyone was complaining about.

That must be why i shot down the bomber aircraft with my AA and shot down fighter aircraft with my gun

Might not want to believe it, but theres more to AA than getting in it and shooting at random.

[{wxc}panda]

Re: How things SHOULD have been nerfed

Third, removing the ability to jump and shoot was really the only way to correctly tackle dolphin diving. Granted, it still occurs, but not at the level it once was. It's not and offensive tool. Gunfights aren't reduced to "Hop" fest anymore. It's the way it should have been from the get-go.


{WP}Paas

DD= jump and prone, get the definition right.

[Cap`N Hagen]

Re: How things SHOULD have been nerfed

Snipers- no buff was needed, i have gone 17-0 k/d w/ a sniper. Heres a hint, you shoot the targets who stop, not those running around randomly, this isnt AWPwhore CS

Exactly.
I was accused of cheating the other day on Warlord, while using the m24. The accuser made a statement that I always get headshots never miss.
What they didnt realise is I only took the shots I knew I could get first try.
Why waste ammo on a moving target when his buddies are lying prone all around him.

[FlyingEgg]

Re: How things SHOULD have been nerfed

*sighs* All these opinionated people scampering around argueing.
Well, here we go...

/startrant
Personally I think that the nerf to the air has turned out to be a good thing. As of 1.2, chopper pilots and aviators require true skill to suceed. What people seem to fail to understand is that you can't charge around blindly, guns blazing and knowing that you can't be touched. Now, pilots need to think about making use of cover from ground based threats, such as AA, mobile AA and the 50. calibre machineguns on the tanks, humvees, vodniks, jeeps, etc. Pilots can still thrive, it just takes a whole lot more patience, intellect, and overall skill, which is why the average noob complains when he got shot down trying to make a strafing-rocket run into the barrel of a tank.

AA is now more accurate, and therefore, more effective. For helicopter pilots, AA batteries are now a prime concern, rather than a risk. And for planes, a definate threat, rather than the cause of an annoying buzzing sound.
The overall effects of the changes suggested by you have basically been accomplished by the patch, so I can't really see what's your problem with this is.

As for jumping and shooting, it's not being missed. Very rarely would I see a person jumping and shooting (with bullets) with the intention of killing an opponent. Jumping and shooting/throwing was mainly used by noob tubists, C4 tossers and dolphin divers, neither of which contributed positively to the game. Sure, you could realistically jump and shoot, but in terms of gameplay, it's been a positive move.

So snipers recieved a boost. I have absolutely no idea why, and personally I havn't even noticed the difference, save for the fact that there are about three times as many snipers around the place, which is probably due to the vast amount trying out their shiny new L96's. As a long time (and what I consider to be a successful) sniper, I would agree that this was unnecessary. Personally I don't think it's actually done much, except for encourage more people to use the class. And just for the record, it's not CS. The majority of snipers are complete noobs, and will sit still and try to shoot you. fairly easy to take out, even if you only use your pistol.

As for LMG's, I think some improvement would have been enough, rather than the massive upper hand that they've now been granted. I frequently find myself being sniped by LMG users (especially PKM's). Surely not the intention of the class overall, as is suggested by the 'support' title.

At is fine. Again, your suggestion, to the effect of decreasing the capabilities of air targets (obviously mostly helicopters) has already been accomplished by the decrease in health. Increasing AT's damage against them wouldn't have solved much at all. By the way, if you think that the AT rocket isn't effective against choppers, try aiming for the pilot. It'll knock them out just as fast as any M95.

Shockpaddles, yep, sweet. Cool new function, pat on the back for Dice doing something the community can unanimously agree was good.

And the blackhawk? If they wanted to nerf is, they should have increased it's accuracy. That thing would be damned hard to use while flying without the capacity to spray quite so wildly. Rather than sacrifice realism for the sake of gameplay (which has been done with the decrease in damage of the miniguns) an increase in accuracy would be an ideal way to nerf.

As for things that should have been nerfed?
The 50. calibre machineguns mounted on jeeps, buggies, tanks, etc. Why those things were ever made to have perfect accuracy, I'll never know. That's one for the "what was Dice smoking" catagory. But those things are too accurate, to such a point that they can be used to camp hotzones from long range. A small amount of innacuracy would help realism and gameplay.

Also, the G36E is too accurate in my opinion. Leave the accurate shooting to the snipers and the special ops. The accuracy of the G36E transforms the medic into a special ops with healing.

Something to make artillery less aggrevating? Being struck by artillery during heat of battle is bad enough, especially if you're having a good gun fight. Having it hit you when you're hanging around your main, uncapturable base is worse, especially as it adds undeserved deaths to your score, a point over which many players obsess.

Players of the specific kits being able to pick up claymores and C4 would have been a nice touch, and I'm unsure as to why they didn't include it.

/endrant

oh, and a PS to Slak... insulting, berating and sarcastically answering people offering their opinions and sharing their wisdom doesn't really support your case. Instead, it makes them think less of you, in turn making them less inclined to consider what you're saying. Try discussing politely, it seems to work.

[Cornbread Mafia]

Re: How things SHOULD have been nerfed

I think more people should be playing instead of sitting in here and critiquing the 1.2 patch.. I have been playing with all the weapons and they are great. There is a definite balance, and when you shoot at people they die...

THe sniper rifle and LMG's are excellent, but not over powered...