Battlefield 1.2 and AA missiles, there is a problem.

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  • saggyb

    #1

    Battlefield 1.2 and AA missiles, there is a problem.

    Yes I know there are a million threads like this, but most are full of people calling others jetwhores or people posting "1.2 SUCKS EA RUINED EVERYTHING".

    I was hoping to start a sensible discussion on the issue, focused on a very specific part of gameplay, Air to Air dogfighting in BF2.

    So it seems like EA can't make anyone happy, before the patch, complaining, after, even more complaining. It is true, many of the people complaining about the new patch do so for very stupid reasons, the game allowed an advantage what they liked to do, and now it doesn't, in the interest of balance.

    Such is the case with those complaining about surface to air missiles in BF2, they defintely needed a boost and now do a good job of stopping rampant groundraping. Jets could maybe use a bit of a flare reloading time decrease, but overall it has made the game more balanced. What DIDN'T need to change was air-to-air combat. Jet vs Jet in 1.12 was like most vehicle vs vehicle combat, not overly tactical, but still involved enough thinking and strategy that skill made a big difference. Shooting down another plane took alot of careful maneuvering and getting often getting some gunhits in too, while AA missiles were a bit underpowered, it was still not too hard to shoot down a jet if caught unsuspecting, but it took a good effort to do so.

    Now it is whoever ends up behind the other wins, even the most inexperienced player can keep another jet in sight long enough to launch off a few missiles, and seeing as half the time your flares have already been used to evade S2A, its a sure kill.

    This really takes all the fun out of dog fighting, yes there is tatical skill required in ending up on his tail before he gets on yours, but the fun of BF2 is its just not that tactical a game, take tanks for example, which in a tactical game would be first shot first kill, they are definitely not in this game.

    The people complaining got what they wanted, protection from the ground againts jets, why do A2A missiles need to be made so rediculously powerful too, it effects only other jets, it has no substantial effect on the ground forces. By changing the nature of the jet EA has made it much less approachable to beginners, and has seriously decreased the advantages being a more skilled pilot gives you.

    Air to air missiles need to be changed back to levels similar to in the 1.12 patch, with only a slight increase in missile turning ability, not these magic rockets we have now. This makes everyone (who is reasonable) happy, jet fighters still get their good dogfights, and the ground boys have S2A to make sure jets can't just rape them.

    Please don't reply to this thread if you are going to add some stupid comment about "planewhores" or just bitch meaninglessly about the patch.
  • TheGhost

    #2
    Re: Battlefield 1.2 and AA missiles, there is a problem.

    I agree 100%. I would also like it if they could create the same balance between ground and air that that there is right now, but do it without resorting to "finger of God" missles that cheat all rules of flight and motion. Be prepared for everyone to call you a plane whore though despite your completely reasonable take on things.

    This was my take on it: http://www.totalbf2.com/forums/showt...97133#poststop

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    • imported_El_m_ent

      #3
      Re: Battlefield 1.2 and AA missiles, there is a problem.

      My guess is that they are probably inseparable from the ground based AA, code wise, so what you are suggesting might not be possible. If this is the case, then tough tookies for you guys. I think it is a small price to pay - if you want good dogfights then go buy combat flight simulator. I personally am happy now that four guys can't control the game for the other 60 guys on the map. I have had much better quality and fun games in the past two nights than in the past two months. Ground pounders RULE again (and thats the way it should be)

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      • DogFish

        #4
        Re: Battlefield 1.2 and AA missiles, there is a problem.

        How theyve made it to where a guy who just purchased the game can down a top fighter of four years of thousands of hours Coral Sea,Battle of Britain,Flaming Dart is an absolute insult...All the true good pilots agree,
        The improved ground AA was plenty adjusted enough to where dogfights would have been difficult enough without these new missles,so if youlose altitude your in SAM city and dead.

        Ground AA has handled the baserapers,Im fine with that...but the AIR2AIR combat needs to be changed back or seriously adjusted to where skill can at least have a chance.

        I dont appreciate there was no warning of this,so we could have at least discussed it.....!

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        • |AFF|Soupyblister

          #5
          Re: Battlefield 1.2 and AA missiles, there is a problem.

          I don't see a problem with this. I get locked on from another plane, I evade, lose him, find him get behind and kill him. Now its a lot easier, and its great that I can shot a damn missile and it hit him, instead of wondering off and TK someone. You just need practice to learn to evade someone else and get behind him. Its not all about who is behind who first wins. I like what they done.

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          • Light_Wolf

            #6
            Re: Battlefield 1.2 and AA missiles, there is a problem.

            I think that you make some good points.
            I'm not in the air much, but some decent dogfights is always enoyable, and you aren't as focused on ground targets while you fight. If they were to release a hotpatch with these points pluss (of.topic, I know) Ability to destroy claymores with grenades, I would be very happy:P

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            • DogFish

              #7
              Re: Battlefield 1.2 and AA missiles, there is a problem.

              Originally posted by SoupyBlister
              I don't see a problem with this. I get locked on from another plane, I evade, lose him, find him get behind and kill him. Now its a lot easier, and its great that I can shot a damn missile and it hit him, instead of wondering off and TK someone. You just need practice to learn to evade someone else and get behind him. Its not all about who is behind who first wins. I like what they done.

              Ive been getting air2air kills and plenty of them...You would have had to engage and not be able to run the map low flying like they used to...The ground AA wil tear you up so dogfighting was changed already by that alone,its forced actions or die.

              Comment

              • imported_RingMasTeR
                Member
                • Jun 2006
                • 353

                #8
                Re: Battlefield 1.2 and AA missiles, there is a problem.

                Originally posted by TheBullShark
                How theyve made it to where a guy who just purchased the game can down a top fighter of four years of thousands of hours Coral Sea,Battle of Britain,Flaming Dart is an absolute insult...All the true good pilots agree,then theres a handful of these "Dogfights are more challenging" morons who dont have a clue but all the ACE's are in full agreement.

                The improved ground AA was plenty adjusted enough to where dogfights would have been difficult enough without these new noob missles,so if youlose altitude your in SAM city and dead.

                Ground AA has handled the baserapers,Im fine with that...but the AIR2AIR combat needs to be changed back or seriously adjusted to where skill can at least have a chance.

                I dont appreciate there was no warning of this,so we could have at least discussed it.....There are no more ACE's or dogfighting,so dont claim "Its better" because thats BS!
                Good points. I'm really glad they got the the S2A done the way it should be, but if A2A missiles are to be this deadly, then how about a little more airspace to play with? Limiting these dogfights to 800 ft in already close quarter maps is more frustrating to me than the new missiles themselves.

                Comment

                • DogFish

                  #9
                  Re: Battlefield 1.2 and AA missiles, there is a problem.

                  You can still rack up the kills dont be fooled . ..Thats not the point,nor do I care about dying,honestly stats is whats got its all FU to begin with....Im happy with every change almost,not sure on some will have to see but mines and claymores/snipers are EVERYWHERE.

                  Im fine with StA but AtA is way messed up...if its the only way for the missles to work(like they cant change one or the other) then they should have either given more countermeasures,infantry only maps,air only maps,less missles for planes or options to make maps with planes to not have planes etc...

                  Theyve let me down huge on this and without ANY warning and I was never one to complain,I play all roles in BF series and been at it since the Wake demo of 42.I play all roles so its not over for me but I see no point in putting anymore money in this series if its heading for the likes of a console game

                  Comment

                  • Teaves

                    #10
                    Re: Battlefield 1.2 and AA missiles, there is a problem.

                    Well i would of posted my opinions as the OP has a well thought out post that deserves discussion, HOWEVER "TheBullShark" has turned it into a trolling abuse thread by throwing random insults at people he dosent agree with so i think we can all see where this thread is heading ......

                    Comment

                    • DogFish

                      #11
                      Re: Battlefield 1.2 and AA missiles, there is a problem.

                      Originally posted by Teaves
                      Well i would of posted my opinions as the OP has a well thought out post that deserves discussion, HOWEVER "TheBullShark" has turned it into a trolling abuse thread by throwing random insults at people he dosent agree with so i think we can all see where this thread is heading ......

                      Look Sry as I said I normally dont complain,I guess Im coming off in the wrong light,and maybe should cool off a bit its let me and many others dedicated fans down pretty good.

                      Ive edited the posts so please discuss

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                      • Digital-Boy

                        #12
                        Re: Battlefield 1.2 and AA missiles, there is a problem.

                        I agree completely. Air-to-air combat was pretty good before 1.2. What the jets couldn't hit with missiles they could still eat alive with the vulcan cannons. Now air-to-air combat seems like mindlessly spamming missiles. lolwtf?

                        Comment

                        • Solodon

                          #13
                          Re: Battlefield 1.2 and AA missiles, there is a problem.

                          AA missiles work much better now. Granted they might be overpowered slightly, but this does help to overcome a previously largely untouchable Jet problem. Other thoughts to consider in this military sim game.... Should your friendly bomber loaders really load the enemy with bombs and missiles, just by them stopping by.... ah no.... Should the aircraft be insta loaded and ready to bomb again, by merely flying a spot on a map, when it should take a few minutes to reload bombs on an aircraft in reality. Hm...

                          Comment

                          • Hu.Z_of_PLA

                            #14
                            Re: Battlefield 1.2 and AA missiles, there is a problem.

                            Originally posted by TheBullShark
                            How theyve made it to where a guy who just purchased the game can down a top fighter of four years of thousands of hours Coral Sea,Battle of Britain,Flaming Dart is an absolute insult...
                            hmm, How theyve made it to where a guy who just purchased the game can kill a top assualt of five years of thousands hours of quake 3, CS, battlefield1942, desert combat? This is an ABSOLUTE insult!

                            solution: make user immune to gunfire after certain rank

                            Comment

                            • whoosh

                              #15
                              Re: Battlefield 1.2 and AA missiles, there is a problem.

                              There isn't a problem.

                              Yes, if you aren't paying attention you are going to get shot down.

                              Well, pay attention, wheres the guy at? how soon does he spawn, how many airplanes are in the air right now. What is the other aircraft doing?
                              Is your team spotting enemy aircraft for you? Do they spot enemy armor?

                              Its all relative. BTW I played a game yesterday and went 29-0, not a great game, but the other team never held a single flag where they could get armor. Most of the kills where air-to-air missles and or cannon fire, because the other team couldn't get across the water to get any armor.
                              In that game I got shot at with aa from thier base and got locked numerous times. I repeat I went 29 and ZERO. Did NOT get shot down. Had to do a couple of quick repair passes a few times and some pilot **** a few times to avoid being shot down. But went 29 and ZERO

                              The other pilots probably thought they weren't dogfighting and guess what???
                              They were right and dead.


                              Played that same game again, but didn't get the figher and we got our asses stomped. I tried flying the bomber and had some kills but the other team dominated because our fighter pilot couldn't control the air space corridor from thier base to ours.

                              Nor could he shoot down even thier bomber which was bombing at will.


                              My advice is. If your fighter pilot or you cannot control the air space. Then you or they should get out of the airplane because with the new patch. POOR PILOTS --W-I-L-L- LOOSE THE GAME FOR A TEAM.
                              Its that simple.



                              I like the new patch. I just wish they could put an anti noob feature in it.
                              If you have been flying for half the game and don't get a kill the idiot dies and ups comes to pickup his joystick.

                              This is all about team work and unfortunatly there are still a ton of idiots out there who don't play like a team

                              They couldn't fly before the patch and they can't fly now.

                              Funny part is they still haven't figured it out and cry about it.

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