Impact of AA on wake island/dragon valley/dalian plant/gulf of oman (US specifically)

[chavr]

First, let me state that so far I enjoy the new changes to AA and what it means for the game as a whole. While I enjoy piloting choppers I know that AA was a joke and it needed upgrading.

That being said, lets look at what this means for the US when it comes to maps where the US is dependant upon a carrier as it's uncappable base and major vehicle depot. The US on the above mentioned maps is tailored specifically around transport choppers and the mobility they provide. This results in a lower amount of armored vehicles but more capability to shift troops around.
The problem that occurs after the patch is that transport choppers have a greatly reduced life span. Between vehicle mounted machine guns, fixed AA and jets, a blackhawk stands little to no chance of carrying it's crew to an area where it can be combat effective.

My solution to this issue does not revolve around adjusting AA as it currently stands. Rather I believe that a simple adjustment of removing the boats from the carrier and putting in 3 LAV25's and 1 boat would solve the problem. A squad that wants to risk a boat trip for more speed can still attempt such an approach, while the more conservative personnel can take the LAV's out and fight their way to a spawn point.

[D|sso]

Re: Impact of AA on wake island/dragon valley/dalian plant/gulf of oman (US specifically)

Good points, all arguably true.

I agree with the APCs. The carrier IS a marine carrier, and should be able to deploy martime armor such as the APC for an assault on the beach (which Oman is just perfect for) and room for passengers.

[kamandor]

Re: Impact of AA on wake island/dragon valley/dalian plant/gulf of oman (US specifically)

I have to agree here. I play Wake Island pretty well exclusively, and I've noticed that it's a lot harder for the USMC to get even a single flag after 1.2. I think it is because the transports can barely get close to a flag let alone have troops hop out since the AA has been improved. Now there's nothing wrong with having better AA, I'm all for it, but I honestly think the transport helicopters need to have a way higher top speed closer to real life so they can actually "fly" into hotspots, land and get the hell out of there.

As it is now the transport helicopters are floating coffins and travel way too slow - I estimate about 25mph which is ludicrous and horrible unrealistic. I'm not talking about bumping it to 100mph or anything, maybe just double the forward speed and see what happens. I've always thought they were too slow but now that AA has been improved to realistic levels you can clearly see the transports are way to slow for this game and are far too vulnerable to ground fire.

Especially since the jet's missiles have been improved too, I've seen way more Blackhawks go down before they can even get out over Artillery Island, which is ridiculous. This game is all about fun and balance, and I love 1.2, but I think the transport helicopters need to be re-balanced and sped up to make the game more enjoyable and semi-realistic.

[imported_-USN-Seadog]

Re: Impact of AA on wake island/dragon valley/dalian plant/gulf of oman (US specifically)

Agreed, yet on the flip side it is now alot easier to defend the carrier and get the choppers of the deck in the first place. USMC not getting a single flag on a carrier map just doesn't seem new. To me at least.

[poisonsoul]

Re: Impact of AA on wake island/dragon valley/dalian plant/gulf of oman (US specifica

I wasn't having any problems with getting to land in the boats on Wake.

However, it would be nice to have some APCs or some way of getting a strong foot hold on the island besides troops.

It's ridiculous how fast a chopper takes damage, before you can get to land it's time to bail or go KABOOM.

[Mahoro]

Re: Impact of AA on wake island/dragon valley/dalian plant/gulf of oman (US specifica

I wasn't having any problems with getting to land in the boats on Wake.

However, it would be nice to have some APCs or some way of getting a strong foot hold on the island besides troops.

It's ridiculous how fast a chopper takes damage, before you can get to land it's time to bail or go KABOOM.

I killed at least 7 people in wake just that they were travelling w/ boat from the carrier to the airfield....
It is funny to see how helpless they were against the jet :laugh: :laugh:

[[M_Metcalf]]

Re: Impact of AA on wake island/dragon valley/dalian plant/gulf of oman (US specifically)

The US on the above mentioned maps is tailored specifically around transport choppers and the mobility they provide. This results in a lower amount of armored vehicles but more capability to shift troops around.
The problem that occurs after the patch is that transport choppers have a greatly reduced life span. Between vehicle mounted machine guns, fixed AA and jets, a blackhawk stands little to no chance of carrying it's crew to an area where it can be combat effective.

What bogs my mind is that they not only reduced the hit points on the transport helos, but also apparently neutered the chainguns (either by reducing accuracy or reducing the damage inflicted by them). The whole point of the troop insertion becomes moot, because anyone on board these steel caskets always go out with a great fireball within 200 yards of takeoff regardless of the map.

Am I correct about the chainguns? I didn't find any mention of that in the 1.2 patch readme...

[Flares]

Re: Impact of AA on wake island/dragon valley/dalian plant/gulf of oman (US specifically)

I concur. The carrier rape has been reduced significantly, but now those helos are flying coffins. I played Chinese a fair bit yesterday and actually felt sorry for the US players.. I'd like nothing more than seeing a troop of LAVs hitting the beaches, good idea.

Metcalf, the chainguns do seem to have had their lethality reduced significantly. I was sniping on a rooftop in Mashtuur yesterday, the BH crew couldn't hit me and I managed to drop a couple of people sitting in the door before it flew off.

[MonkMachine]

Re: Impact of AA on wake island/dragon valley/dalian plant/gulf of oman (US specifically)

The AA on the game has gone the other way now, last night I was 16-0 on Gulf of oman through AA. As soon as a plane or chopper flew by jump on the AA aslong as they don't deploy flares they're down. Agree?

[DrMcleod]

Re: Impact of AA on wake island/dragon valley/dalian plant/gulf of oman (US specifically)

How to get from the Carrier to Wake:

1) Have a sniper on the artillery island to kill the AA users on the northern isthmus.

2) Keep the two AA weapons on the Carrier manned for the first couple of minutes,

3) Make sure the BH flies very, very high.

[MackTheKnifeAU]

Re: Impact of AA on wake island/dragon valley/dalian plant/gulf of oman (US specifically)

Wake Island : Now the worst map in the game. AA (and improved Jet A2A) makes it alot harder for blackhawks to get to the island, and J10 can usually rape the carrier a bit. Enemy helo and jets have free roam over the island to stop boats and helos.

Dalian : I did'nt see alot of difference, just stay away from the carrier, and stay higher and you should be okay, jet combat should be more frequent, due to it's small size.

Gulf Of Oman : Bomber is a deathtrap. Stay away from the carrier, alot of Ground based AA to hurt you.

Oilfields : "ambushes" from the mobile AA can be deadly, bomber is less of a deathtrap than on oman, but you still still need to pick your targets. Maybe have a gunner pointing out enemy planes could let you get behind, but still risky.

[[FM]Master_Chief]

Re: Impact of AA on wake island/dragon valley/dalian plant/gulf of oman (US specifically)

Re BH chainguns, I think it said in patch notes that it's damage was reduced (near the bottom of the list). It seems to me they took out "area damage" that the chaingun had so right now you pretty much have to hit the target to kill it like with MEC or PLA choppers. And obviously that's not gonna happen if you're flying.

[evilzucchini]

Re: Impact of AA on wake island/dragon valley/dalian plant/gulf of oman (US specifically)

To be honest, I RARELY saw a successful BH assault on wake island.

Usually, my squad would be the first squad to cap a point. It would be the beach and we would take a boat there. Even with a three man squad you can get in, grab the point and get into a defensive position (or run from possible arty) before anyone could do anything.

The BH were always getting shot down by the attack chopper or the plane before they even got into AA range.

[chavr]

Re: Impact of AA on wake island/dragon valley/dalian plant/gulf of oman (US specifically)

I am all for taking a blackhawk about 300ft up and flying to the airfield to cap it. Problem I run into alot is that that people in the helo won't jump out. They wait for the gunners to jump so they can gun. Don't even get me started on the retarded gunners that spray rounds as your trying to sneak in and make the nice tracer lines for everyone to see.

If you play a public server then you can't rely on coordination more involved then people jumping into a transport. That's why I think there needs to be some LAV's for the US. It gives you a chance to fight your way off the carrier.

[Bungalow_Bill]

Re: Impact of AA on wake island/dragon valley/dalian plant/gulf of oman (US specifica

All I can do when I read some of the responses in this thread is laugh. I knew it would only be a matter of time before soldiers complaining about having to be in an airborne vehicle for less than a minute complain about how the AA effects them. Now try imagine spending the entire round in the air and dealing with this AA for the entire game. Even after all that these same soldiers will come on these forums and laugh at the pilots for being frustrated or dissapointed with the latest poorly thought out changes DICE has made.

Few infantry really understand the pain suffered and downtime after getting shot down while in a plane or helicopter. I'm not whining, but untill you've had to wait 10 minutes, rather than 10 seconds to get re-equipped with your preferred method of combat, you will not understand.

The problems with AA are global problems that are the result of poorly redesigned AA missiles. They effect the pilots, and the infantry who have to spend 30 seconds in a BH to get on shore, and as this thread has pointed out, the overwhemling nature of the new AA negatively effects the entire balance of the game.