I was thinking about teamwork.

[WarGimp]

Re: I was thinking about teamwork.

If you do not attempt to take a flag during a round, you have not helped your team. The only way to win is to control the flags and if you’re sitting on your butt on top of a hill or hiding in the bushes, you’re not helping.

As it has been pointed out, cappin flags isn't the only way to win. Every death with no revive counts as a ticket gone.
Not only is killing the other team a way to help win the round, but so is helping your teammates to stay alive. Parkin yer arse in the bushes overlooking the field and activly spotting enemy units can be a BIG help, despite the fact that you don't get points for it.
Medics who keep people from having to respawn likewise help things out greatly.

I recall playing on a round of Kark where we'd been baddly beaten back to our last spawn point (32 player map, last point was the most northerly one). Since we were totally pinned (we couldn't get out the back route due to some smart enemies covering it), we blew the bridge and did our best to lay in a dug in defence. The USMC kept pushing and pushing... hordes of 'em throwing themselves into the river to advance. A vertable wall of fleshy assualt, but we managed to hold our last line until the bitter end.
We WON! I couldn't believe it. We had done so much damage to 'em while they were attacking that they lost purely because of the number of kills.

There's other ways ta win.

[parish]

Re: I was thinking about teamwork.

I think the biggest challenge for most players is figuring out how they can apply their talents and preferred activities to the team's goals.

We always say "teamwork" and "team player" but these are never conclusively defined to a level of detail that anyone could utilize. When is a given kill or action good for the team vs bad for the team vs inconsequential? How is it measured?

Good point. I don't know that I could define it any better than saying it is that teamwork is best served by trying to aid other players on the same side to the singular goal of controlling the flags in the game.

It's all subjective and I guess on a personal level I consider myself to be a team player because if I am not taking a flag, I am on the way to take one. I also repair and heal when I can as well as provide transport no matter what vehicle I am in.

It's a very grey area, but I think if your find yourself sitting somewhere for more than a minute in the heat of battle, and your not sniper or a commander, you may not be playing as part of the team. You have to keep moving in this game in my opinion. In the simplest of terms, if you're running around all by yourself, you may not be helping your team.

I will go as far as to say that if you intentionally TK and or hurt your teammates, you are NOT playing as part of a team.

[parish]

Re: I was thinking about teamwork.

As it has been pointed out, cappin flags isn't the only way to win. Every death with no revive counts as a ticket gone.
Not only is killing the other team a way to help win the round, but so is helping your teammates to stay alive. Parkin yer arse in the bushes overlooking the field and activly spotting enemy units can be a BIG help, despite the fact that you don't get points for it.
Medics who keep people from having to respawn likewise help things out greatly.

I recall playing on a round of Kark where we'd been baddly beaten back to our last spawn point (32 player map, last point was the most northerly one). Since we were totally pinned (we couldn't get out the back route due to some smart enemies covering it), we blew the bridge and did our best to lay in a dug in defence. The USMC kept pushing and pushing... hordes of 'em throwing themselves into the river to advance. A vertable wall of fleshy assualt, but we managed to hold our last line until the bitter end.
We WON! I couldn't believe it. We had done so much damage to 'em while they were attacking that they lost purely because of the number of kills.

There's other ways ta win.

Agreed.

[WarGimp]

Re: I was thinking about teamwork.

I think the biggest challenge for most players is figuring out how they can apply their talents and preferred activities to the team's goals.

We always say "teamwork" and "team player" but these are never conclusively defined to a level of detail that anyone could utilize. When is a given kill or action good for the team vs bad for the team vs inconsequential? How is it measured?

Interesting post!

I think the answer to your biggest challange is quite simple.
Communication!

When people talk to each other and know how to relay information well, it becomes MUCH easier to figure out what's gotta happen on the field.

I recall playing on MASH one night. I'd joined during the last phases of a battle on the MEC side that had just been OWNED by some skilled use of the Blackhawk. We lost, badly, but in the prosess of losing I discovered that I'd joined a "talky" squad. There was some good comunication going on, but we were too far gone to be able to turn things around.
Next round on the same map with the same teams, I barked out right away "We gotta keep that Hawk down this round. Let's make it a piority guys!"
The squad agreed. Enthusiasticly and we scattered off with Jeeps and AT looking for that bird to show up.
About a minute into the game:
Squad Mate 1: "Found it! At the Yard! Engading with .50 cal!".
Me: "I'm on the roof at the mosk. AT. I'll take the shot if I can."
Squad Mate 2: "Moving in with another jeep"
Squad Mate 3 [gunning in jeep2]: "Hold it! I got a shot from here!"
Squad Mate 2: "10-4"
Me: "I got a shot! Takin it!!"
BOOOM! Hawk does down about 10 seconds after showing up.
The rest of the map went very much the same way. Any time they managed to get a bird up, we'd swat it down. Since they refused to change tactics, we cleaned up.

The only difference in the two rounds was that our squad was talking and had a purpose.

Too bad the Battle Recorder file got creamed by 1.12.

[Warbird_7]

Re: I was thinking about teamwork.

I will go as far as to say that if you intentionally TK and or hurt your teammates, you are NOT playing as part of a team.

Amen, brother. Amen.

[Bkelso8]

Re: I was thinking about teamwork.

Execellent posts.

Let me just add, there is a very selfish reason for using a mic, communicating, and playing as a part of a real team: IT IS FUN!!!!!!

I don't know about everyone else, but simply going for points is getting really old for me. I had the best time playing last week on Moongamers because - like someone's post above - I got into a talky, team-oriented squad, and did what my commander / squad leader told me to. Did we win every round? No. Were we always the best players and the best squad? No. Did we have a blast? Absolutely.

If you haven't had that experience lately, I highly recommend it.

[imported_The_Revrend]

Re: I was thinking about teamwork.

If that offer was for me, then no thank you. I am quite happy with the clan I am in and get plenty of teamwork from my own guys. My guys understand what is expected and play that way when they are there.

We try. . . I will be on later tonight, and as luck would have it don't have to work until tomorrow after noon. . . should be some fun times. .

Rev

[vbl]

Re: I was thinking about teamwork.

Interesting post!

I think the answer to your biggest challange is quite simple.
Communication!

When people talk to each other and know how to relay information well, it becomes MUCH easier to figure out what's gotta happen on the field.

I recall playing on MASH one night. I'd joined during the last phases of a battle on the MEC side that had just been OWNED by some skilled use of the Blackhawk. We lost, badly, but in the prosess of losing I discovered that I'd joined a "talky" squad. There was some good comunication going on, but we were too far gone to be able to turn things around.
Next round on the same map with the same teams, I barked out right away "We gotta keep that Hawk down this round. Let's make it a piority guys!"
The squad agreed. Enthusiasticly and we scattered off with Jeeps and AT looking for that bird to show up.
About a minute into the game:
Squad Mate 1: "Found it! At the Yard! Engading with .50 cal!".
Me: "I'm on the roof at the mosk. AT. I'll take the shot if I can."
Squad Mate 2: "Moving in with another jeep"
Squad Mate 3 [gunning in jeep2]: "Hold it! I got a shot from here!"
Squad Mate 2: "10-4"
Me: "I got a shot! Takin it!!"
BOOOM! Hawk does down about 10 seconds after showing up.
The rest of the map went very much the same way. Any time they managed to get a bird up, we'd swat it down. Since they refused to change tactics, we cleaned up.

The only difference in the two rounds was that our squad was talking and had a purpose.

Too bad the Battle Recorder file got creamed by 1.12.

Sounds like some very cinematic radio chatter, and although immersive, was it necessary? Someone could have spotted the BH and the squad could have worked to the same end result. I don't doubt that it was fun, but I also don't want someone to think that VoIP usage is a guaranteed path to teamwork and victory.

That aside, your example does hold a few principles that I think play into the collective but unstated definition of teamwork:

1) Recognizing a threat/objective that could have substantial effect on your team, even though it might not be immediately relevant to you, the individual
2) Where appropriate, prioritizing that threat/objective ahead of other threats, even ones that might be imminently dangerous to you as an individual
3) Responding to the threat/objective in a useful way (i.e. shooting a BH with a .50 cal and not a pistol) that either addresses the threat/objective, or supports those who are addressing it
4) Combining resources with other players to achieve faster/better results
5) Always having a purpose (target/objective) on the battlefield that directly/indirectly empowers the team's victory, either by saving your tickets or taking the enemy's tickets
6) Sharing information

These are just the ones I saw in your story, and it's not a bad start. Perhaps the path to creating a guidebook or checklist for defining or creating the team player is as straightforward as reverse engineering principles out of experiences.

----

OT: It occurred to me while writing this that I'd love, as an individual player (SL, SM, or Lone Wolf), to be able to see the targets and objectives of other squads. That is, when an SL sets an objective ("Attack here") I'd love to be able to see the waypoint and line on MY minimap. That way, I know what everyone is doing, where the holes are, who needs support, and where I can fill in.

I realize the the commander is supposed to coordinate those things, but sometimes it helps for the individual to see that info too - who is nearby, what they're doing, etc.

Just another idea that'd give more power to the SLs, which is where discretion and decision really need to be.