Why the battle Recorder can't Rewind

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  • WarGimp

    #1

    Why the battle Recorder can't Rewind

    I've seen quite a few complaints about how there's no rewind feature on the battle recorder's playback. After finally being able to play with some .demo files, I figured out why and thought I would share my insight:

    It seems to me that unlike most recorders the BF2 BR doesn't simply record position, facing, and velosity. Rather, it stores all client commands and re-feeds them to a fully running local instance of the game. More simply stated: It remembers what everyone did by feeding the same information that it got from all players during the game and re-runs it.

    This means that it's no simple task to rewind. It would require a WHOLE LOT of number crunching to go back since inverting those commands would require some very complex and specialized math. I doubt it could be done in a way that would be rock solid either. If you know anything about degradation of computation, it's obvious that it would be next to impossible to be able to rewind without introducing variance.

    Again, to put it in more simple terms; The math involved in rewinding is so complex that you would find that the playback would be all messed up after rewinding. You'd get slight distortion in events that would build up to dramatic errors in playback. All it would take is one bullet missing when it originally hit and your demo would be futzed (someone didn't die when they should have, now he's still alive but getting information from a client that had respawned).

    However, after some thought, I think I've come up with a possible solution that would help the movie making crowed out (Are ya listening Dice? NM, I'll e-mail this ta ya later ).

    As an option in the playback, you could set "flash points". Basicly you would save all locations, states, facings, and volocities of everything in the game at the current point of the demo. You would also need to save exactly what point in the client information steam you are curently at. This would allow you to go back to that specific point by realoading the level and all the saved information.

    Yeah, it's a hack, but it could be made to work.

    Anyway, now that you know that the problems involved are, let's not hear anymore "Just make the battle recorder rewind" or "Dice suckes because they can't rewind a demo" complaining, a'ight?
  • Eddy01741

    #2
    Re: Why the battle Recorder can't Rewind

    Originally posted by Wargimp
    I've seen quite a few complaints about how there's no rewind feature on the battle recorder's playback. After finally being able to play with some .demo files, I figured out why and thought I would share my insight:

    It seems to me that unlike most recorders the BF2 BR doesn't simply record position, facing, and velosity. Rather, it stores all client commands and re-feeds them to a fully running local instance of the game. More simply stated: It remembers what everyone did by feeding the same information that it got from all players during the game and re-runs it.

    This means that it's no simple task to rewind. It would require a WHOLE LOT of number crunching to go back since inverting those commands would require some very complex and specialized math. I doubt it could be done in a way that would be rock solid either. If you know anything about degradation of computation, it's obvious that it would be next to impossible to be able to rewind without introducing variance.

    Again, to put it in more simple terms; The math involved in rewinding is so complex that you would find that the playback would be all messed up after rewinding. You'd get slight distortion in events that would build up to dramatic errors in playback. All it would take is one bullet missing when it originally hit and your demo would be futzed (someone didn't die when they should have, now he's still alive but getting information from a client that had respawned).

    However, after some thought, I think I've come up with a possible solution that would help the movie making crowed out (Are ya listening Dice? NM, I'll e-mail this ta ya later ).

    As an option in the playback, you could set "flash points". Basicly you would save all locations, states, facings, and volocities of everything in the game at the current point of the demo. You would also need to save exactly what point in the client information steam you are curently at. This would allow you to go back to that specific point by realoading the level and all the saved information.

    Yeah, it's a hack, but it could be made to work.

    Anyway, now that you know that the problems involved are, let's not hear anymore "Just make the battle recorder rewind" or "Dice suckes because they can't rewind a demo" complaining, a'ight?
    I agree, BFR has a lot of problems. The original BF: TV was way better, but they scrapped that, i dunno, though, havn't used BFR for ages, and probably never will.

    Comment

    • BurnTheWeed

      #3
      Re: Why the battle Recorder can't Rewind

      good post. Hopefully DICE gets the message.

      Comment

      • Wreck0

        #4
        Re: Why the battle Recorder can't Rewind

        Great, just make the flashpoints every 20 seconds.

        We still need far better camera view options though.

        Comment

        • WarGimp

          #5
          Re: Why the battle Recorder can't Rewind

          Originally posted by Wreck0
          Great, just make the flashpoints every 20 seconds.

          We still need far better camera view options though.
          Er... that prolly wouldn't be a great idea. I would recomend that if this was to be impemented, Flash Points would be made manually.

          Why?

          'Cause they'd likely be fairly big files.
          Saving the states of EVERY object in the game isn't a small thing. We're not just talking about players and vehicles. Ammo left in every clip, number of clips, destroyable objects, bullets/grenades/shells in flight, and command assets would also have to have all their information saved.

          I would expect the Flash Point files to be nearly as large as a map and take slighty longer to load.

          That's why I called this "solution" a hack. It's far from perfect.

          Comment

          • Drum

            #6
            Re: Why the battle Recorder can't Rewind

            awesome, your solution seems perfectly acceptable to me and would be quite handy, too bad our chances of dice or any1 important enough to actually read this is very low...=/

            Comment

            • WarGimp

              #7
              Re: Why the battle Recorder can't Rewind

              Well, I sent an e-mail off to Dice directly on the subject. I don't really expect them to implement this proposed solution, but it never hurts ta try helping.

              Who knows... they may have come up with a solid way to reverse the instruction flow and give us a real rewind. That would both ROCK and be a proof of code skill.

              Comment

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