How damage and bullet penetration works

[pickled pizza]

Re: How damage and bullet penetration works

According to the .tweak files, the following weapons have the solid and liquid penetration values set to 1... ...Yes, even two of the SMGs, but none of the shotguns. Yet the only AR that has it is the G3. I believe every gun can shoot through the linked fences, but I don't know about the aluminum fences.

If you fire up the BF2Editor, you'll see that the only guns that don't have solid/liquid penetration are the AT missles and grenades/launchers. The knife only has liquid penetration, for some weird reason. I think that just because something isn't in the tweak files doesn't mean it does not exist. I've shot people through fences with the L85 and pistols many times, yet in the tweak files it says nothing about the solid/liquid penetration.

About the minimum damage/range factor for shotguns, I'd guess you are right about the damage going down over distance. I think it's so you don't spray everywhere with the jackhammer and a bunch of people get hit for full damage. With the pistols, at the ranges the damage goes down you might as well whip out your primary because it's hard to hit moving targets 100+ meters away with a pistol.

What objects do bullets penetrate? I'm not really sure. A lot of the stuff in the material editor is confusingly labeled. A good rule is if you think it can be shot through, it probably can.

[imported_Psycho]

Re: How damage and bullet penetration works

Interesting, don't really care about the maths of it but it's interesting to know the advantages and disadvantages of weapons and when there is a point in using ammo or just running, what you wrote explains a few things like why the SAW support gun seems better than the others but really it can't penatrate as many materials therefore that would be its disadvantage.

[WolfAlmighty]

Re: How damage and bullet penetration works

Ah, so the .tweak files aren't really gospel, but an addendum to something else that's handled in an internal resource file most likely. A lot of the .tweak files do not contain a rate of fire for the weapons, but we know they all have one (well the full-autos anyway), so I was wondering if that wasn't the case. That would explain why only two of the three SMGs have that value, and none of the ARs except the G3. I guess those weapons were 'tweaked' to have those penetration values whereas all the other ones have them by default.

~Wolfgang

[CS-Evolution]

Re: How damage and bullet penetration works

This really needs to be stickied! A lot of people look at the damage chart and don't understand how those modifiers work. That's about the clearest explanation of them I've ever seen!

[Seal]

Re: How damage and bullet penetration works

Really good thread!

A must read!

[JustinMcg]

Re: How damage and bullet penetration works

Good lord this is an awesome thread! Very informative and very useful!

If this isn't a sticky it should be.

With that said I'd like to get onto the point of my post...

What I'm concerned with is other factors, such as running, being prone, or kneeling. Because if you're sprinting towards someone, then that puts more momentum on you and thus more force, and since a projectile, whether that be a bullet or something else, hits you, it should definetly increase the damage by a rather significant factor.

I mean, what would do more damage, me shooting you while you're walking or me shooting you while running? Obviously running would hurt more. But I don't think that game factores these variables in, which in my opinion is weird, because I honestly don't see how hard it would be to factor a few other variables into the game.

Also, what if I was crawling and you shot me, would that increase or decrease damage or just have a normal infliction? I think it would be a tad bit above normal, because while your body is more contracted is makes you more subceptable (sp?) to more parts being hit. For instance if I hit you while you were kneeling, you're body essentionlly becomes more at risk because a straight bullt will hit you arms, then your chest, then possibly your spine then possibly exit the body all together.

I'm just saying that certain positions should increase or decrease the damage factor by a noticable difference.

[Real_2St0n3d]

Re: How damage and bullet penetration works

positions DO decrease the damage factor by a noticable difference... when I go prone and let'r rip I'll be more accurate.. that's about as scientific as it has gotta be, I mean, what's next.. the effect of humidity on a barrel, or if you swam through water, make sloshing sounds?

hmm.. now I come to think of it the sloshy sounds sound kinda cool lol..

[CS-Evolution]

Re: How damage and bullet penetration works

I doubt whether you were walking or running would matter for your damage. For example, the muzzle velocity of an M16 is 2800 feet/second. The difference in speed between walking and running is only 2 or 3 feet per second, so you can imagine, it wouldn't have much affect on the speed at which the bullet hits you.

[JustinMcg]

Re: How damage and bullet penetration works

Postions do matter, swimming does matter, all factors matter. If it means you can kill easier or be killed easier then darn it it matters!

Whether I'm prone or whatever makes me more accurate does matter as well, but that has NOTHING to do with bullet impact. It only has to do with bullet placement. It doesn't do diddly jack as to how hard the bullet hits, only where the bullet hits.

Actually that's a good idea, humidity effecting the barrel and what not. Ifonly we could make games with ideas like these then that would be a dream. But unfortunetly the most advanced Physics Processing Unit (PPU) won't be out till like November or December. Oh well...

[CS-Evolution]

Re: How damage and bullet penetration works

Postions do matter, swimming does matter, all factors matter. If it means you can kill easier or be killed easier then darn it it matters!

Whether I'm prone or whatever makes me more accurate does matter as well, but that has NOTHING to do with bullet impact. It only has to do with bullet placement. It doesn't do diddly jack as to how hard the bullet hits, only where the bullet hits.

I understand that! I was rebutting this statement you made:

What I'm concerned with is other factors, such as running, being prone, or kneeling. Because if you're sprinting towards someone, then that puts more momentum on you and thus more force, and since a projectile, whether that be a bullet or something else, hits you, it should definetly increase the damage by a rather significant factor.

The speed at which the player is moving should have no affect on damage, since the change in the impact velocity of the bullet would be only like .0001 percent. When you're running, your probably traveling at about 6 feet/second. A change in the player's velocity of 6 feet/second won't have any significant bearing on how damaging a bullet is that's traveling @ 2800 feet/second.

But I agree that the position you're in makes a difference simply because of probability. If you're crouching, your head takes up a larger proportion of your target area than if your standing. And if you're prone, your head is basically the most prominent hit-zone on your body if someone is shooting at you from head on.

[JustinMcg]

Re: How damage and bullet penetration works

Just on a side note, I was posting to the guy before you! But oh well you made a good post as well!

Anywho...

Yes I do agree that positions should effect damage. Because if you're prone and I hit you in the back, the angle at which the bullet hits is consideribly different if I shot you in the back while you were walking. Although I doubt we'd ever see a game take position, speed, and humidity and other such factors into consideration when designing the game to deal with damage.

Anywho I'm wondering why this thread isn't a sticky. It's without a doubt one of the most informative threads I have ever seen in any forum I have ever been to. Plus it covers a topic that is quite useful in figuring out how many hits it takes to kill a player. Oh well I vote to move this to a sticky. Any one want to second that?

[pickled pizza]

Re: How damage and bullet penetration works

Yes I do agree that positions should effect damage. Because if you're prone and I hit you in the back, the angle at which the bullet hits is consideribly different if I shot you in the back while you were walking. Although I doubt we'd ever see a game take position, speed, and humidity and other such factors into consideration when designing the game to deal with damage.

In BF42 the damage was modified by the cosine of the angle the projectiles hit. I'm pretty sure that doesn't happen in Battlefield 2, but I may be wrong. The only way to know for sure (aside from straight up asking a BF2 dev team member) is to make a gun do 1 damage across the board and see if it takes 102 shots at a 20 degree angle to kill someone and 100 at a 90 degree angle to kill. In fact, I'll get around to testing this in a bit.

Edit: Tested it. I got the dummies down to 20 health with my pistol shots at a perfect 90 degree angle. Then I shot them with my 1 damage M4. Took 20 M4 shots no matter what angle I was at. I guess the damage system was simplified from BF42

Glad you guys like the thread. I edited it a bit to clarify some stuff and some grammatical mistakes.

[CS-Evolution]

Re: How damage and bullet penetration works

Just on a side note, I was posting to the guy before you! But oh well you made a good post as well!

Anywho...

Doh! At least my logic made sense.

[JustinMcg]

Re: How damage and bullet penetration works

haha Yeah that's always good!

[SK]

Re: How damage and bullet penetration works

On a side note ... How do you disable AI? Knowing how to do that might be very beneficial if I continue to do some bullet drop tests.