Jet Jockeys are taking over

[Yezo]

Re: Jet Jockeys are taking over

You are missing my point. It's not that the jets are overpowered, it's that they are unable to be defended against (unless you have skilled pilots on your team). This is a rock/paper/scissors game, but in the case of the jets (lets call them a "rock"), then the only thing that can take them out is a bigger, badder rock (in other words a better pilot flying a jet on your side). All the other weapons you listed can be taken out by something as simple as an AT mine, a TOW, machine gun, etc. Read my original post again. The reason helos are OK in my book is that there is something a guy on the ground can do about it, but when it comes to jets, they are the only weapon system that can't be taken out unless you are using the same weapon system. It blows.

Ok but lets take a look closer at what you said.

You are missing my point. It's not that the jets are overpowered, it's that they are unable to be defended against (unless you have skilled pilots on your team).

Primarily the reason people complain in the first place. They dont want to take the time to learn how to use a Jet. Its completely possible with mouse and keyboard. You can even ace it.

This is a rock/paper/scissors game, but in the case of the jets (lets call them a "rock"), then the only thing that can take them out is a bigger, badder rock (in other words a better pilot flying a jet on your side).

Not always. Everyone complains about the way AA missle react and how they miss. Yet they dont understand that paper is more powerful then rock when used properly. As the jet pulls away fire 2 shots of your stinger or whatever your AA vehicle is (line-backer, etc) without a lock. The pilot will have a red alarm going off in his cockpit for sure.

Many people are too bent up complaining about the way a missle reacts when they can use it to their advantage.

All the other weapons you listed can be taken out by something as simple as an AT mine, a TOW, machine gun, etc.

Not neccessarily. People good at choppers know never to stay in an area for too long. People good with the T.V missle can totally take out any bigger vehicles. Keep in mind the pilot himself has 12-14 missles loaded in his banks which only 8 or so are needed to take out a vehicle, and 2 for a jet, and 2 or 1 for infrantry depending on how you place it.

You just need to be good at what you've got and an AT mine, TOW, or machine gun can be completely worthless. I've seen a guy who took out a jet with his TV guided missle.

The reason helos are OK in my book is that there is something a guy on the ground can do about it, but when it comes to jets, they are the only weapon system that can't be taken out unless you are using the same weapon system. It blows.

Wrong, AA can take them out if you can use them in a way that your thinking outside of the box. You guys complain about this and that, yet you dont ever think about using this and that to get you somewhere.

I dunno how many times I've seen a MEC or US pilot of Oman complain about me being able to see and lock onto them when I didn't appear as a green bombable box.

Remember this game takes place in 3 dimensions. Thinking linearly wont get you anywhere.

[zverj]

Re: Jet Jockeys are taking over

Play an engineer and place mines on runway. Works all the time.

[glcm1961]

Re: Jet Jockeys are taking over

I should have said that I'm speaking in general terms here. Yes, I understand that AA and stingers can and do take out jets, but it is the exception to the rule. Here's the typical scenario:

You hop in a vehicle to either defend a flag or take out another flag. Boom. SU 30 drops it's load on you. You respawn either at the same place or another place. You are sprinting to a position. Boom. Another death. Rinse and repeat. Since the pilots on your side either suck or aren't as good as the opfor, you have only one or two flags you can spawn at. You hop in a AAA vehicle to scan the sky. You pick up an SU 30, wait for him to drop flares, and fire off to quick missiles. Gee, they missed (once in a great while they hit). What is the point? It is that with any other weapon system, a guy on the ground has a probability of greater than 10% of taking out the other guy, except when the other guy is flying a jet, then you have to get lucky with a stinger or AAA. Its the dying with no or little chance of defending myself that bugs me. Yes, I can learn to fly and compete with other jets and become the king of the sky. Then I can fly around blowing up things on the ground with near impunity. I might get tagged by a stinger or AAA battery once in awhile, but my only real threat will be other jets. Sorry, but that's when I become part of the problem.

[Yezo]

Re: Jet Jockeys are taking over

I should have said that I'm speaking in general terms here. Yes, I understand that AA and stingers can and do take out jets, but it is the exception to the rule. Here's the typical scenario:

You hop in a vehicle to either defend a flag or take out another flag. Boom. SU 30 drops it's load on you. You respawn either at the same place or another place. You are sprinting to a position. Boom. Another death. Rinse and repeat. Since the pilots on your side either suck or aren't as good as the opfor, you have only one or two flags you can spawn at. You hop in a AAA vehicle to scan the sky. You pick up an SU 30, wait for him to drop flares, and fire off to quick missiles. Gee, they missed (once in a great while they hit). What is the point? It is that with any other weapon system, a guy on the ground has a probability of greater than 10% of taking out the other guy, except when the other guy is flying a jet, then you have to get lucky with a stinger or AAA. Its the dying with no or little chance of defending myself that bugs me. Yes, I can learn to fly and compete with other jets and become the king of the sky. Then I can fly around blowing up things on the ground with near impunity. I might get tagged by a stinger or AAA battery once in awhile, but my only real threat will be other jets. Sorry, but that's when I become part of the problem.

See there you go off again thinking in linear terms, you dont fire with a lockon. It just alerts them to your presence and you stand a greater chance of missing with a lock on than without, if you remember the way AA missle react.

[Ghost-MOH-]

Re: Jet Jockeys are taking over

This graph explains all.
Black Arrows indicate what kills what
Red Arrows indicate what hates what
As you can see. The jet is at the top of the food chain. And everyone hates jets. I'm sure most people will agree with this chart

The commander's placement on the food chain depends on the skill of the commander.

[BLNKY]

Re: Jet Jockeys are taking over

I do enjoy bombing the %¤#¤% out of enemy team, but still I'm forced to agree with thread starter - the planes are overpowered (against ground targets) today. I think many possible solutions can be found in the mod Dice bought - Desert Combat (DC) - and apparently never tested:

1. There should be no heat-seeking missiles in this game at all. Bring back the DC unguided rockets. Pilots would actually dare to use them (unlike the current "teammate-seeking" missiles) and would probably enjoy having to aim at their target - not just somewhere in the vicinity of it...leave "autoaim" for console gamers). I enjoyed keeping the skies clear of Frogfoots in DC, protecting the ground forces on my side - in BF2 I....don't.

2. The rockets should be one hit - one kill. Dog fights in DC were usually over rather quickly thanks to that - in BF2 against a pilot with similar skill to your own the dog fight usually continues until the attacker grows tired (and the chased plane can usually continue bombing ground targets during the "fight").

3. Remove the target indicator on the HUD - it's too easy to fly high, spot a target, divebomb it and return to high altitude. This would force the planes to fly lower => easier for AA (which should now also use unguided rockets).

4. Put Stingers in a kit. In DC, infantry didn't run the other way, screaming at the top of their lungs when they saw a plane coming - they were to busy aiming their SMAWs/Stingers. Many of my best memories from DC are related to shooting down enemy aircraft from the ground (or from a parachute).


5. No plane should have more than 2 bombs.



I think implementing one or several of the suggestions above would be enough to rectify the current imbalance.

[hellguard]

Re: Jet Jockeys are taking over

Its not just good pilots, its buggy hitboxes (video proof):

http://files.filefront.com/BF_2_Anti.../fileinfo.html

This video is a good demonstration how the AA hitboxes should *NOT* be used. They should never fired towards the nose of an oncoming target because the missile wont catch the exhaust heat and lose its lock-on midair. In the video it is missing the enemy chopper and later locking on a friendly apache. Look where it is hitting the friendly chopper, right on the exhaust opening!!..

AA missiles must be fired towards the side or rear of air targets, but never towards the nose even if it signals a lock-on.

[HypnosisFX]

Re: Jet Jockeys are taking over

Nothing feels better than timing that 1 AT shot right at a incoming bomber so far im 4-6 on taking them down. Fun fun.

[imported_Psycho]

Re: Jet Jockeys are taking over

Meh....................you don't see me complaining but i would be the one in plane bombing the hell out of you.

[MrChris_CJ]

Re: Jet Jockeys are taking over

See there you go off again thinking in linear terms, you dont fire with a lockon. It just alerts them to your presence and you stand a greater chance of missing with a lock on than without, if you remember the way AA missle react.

in what other way are you going to shoot down a jet without a lockon...forgive me for saying but any mobile AA primary flak cannon does **** all to a plane tbh and a stinger??? shall we jus fire it in straight lines and pray that it hits a jet cos without getting a lock thats what itll do

[DimeBagWhore]

Re: Jet Jockeys are taking over

I feel the same way as you do. If the air power is relatively even, I'll play on those maps (except Clean Sweep -- I hate that farking map). Otherwise, if one side is getting dominated I'll usually leave.

LOL - I think Clean Sweep is my most hated map now. Flags are too far apart to walk, and if anyone is flying it's suicide to get into a vehicle.

[iewgnem]

Re: Jet Jockeys are taking over

Until they somehow balance air power, the only way to surivve air power is, dont get into any vehicle. See that mobile AA parked there just waiting for you to jump in to own that F15 thats killing your team? Dont. The moment you jump in, the F15 pilot immediately sees a huge circle/triangle/square on this hud saying "heres an idiot think the can take me down" and before you know it 5 bombs will be droped on your head.
Same goes with Carrier AA, its bit more useful than mobile AA because carrier maps usually dont have bombers, other than that they are death traps as well.
And those little stinger towers, maybe good against helis but suicide towers for jets, all they need to do is see a little square on hud, come at you, know all your missiles will miss and gun you down like a little bug.

So my adive, stay out of vehicles when you know the other side is bombing, or at least get out of vehicles when you hear the jet.

btw, that food chain map should make the jet-heli arrows both red. I fly the jet and hate choppers. Not that they are any threat, but they are annoying as hell. You can never kill them fast enough, there will always be that lonely cobra pilot managed to cap a flag before you guned him down. Lots of killed by shooting choppers but much more annyoing than that innocent boat or AA gun.

[[DC]M4guy624]

Re: Jet Jockeys are taking over

whats with this the only defence to a good pilot is another good pilot... thats crap, i can shake a good pilot for hours if i had to, my main fear as a pilot is the tunguska, just because of the mass of missiles they fire, anyways who cares if a GOOD pilot is owning you, he earned that ability, its no different then if someone keeps owning you with a M4... you guys are basically saying im not good enough to beat the jets so i want something that will basically automatically kill them for me, jets arent easy enough that any idiot could get in them and bomb you accurately, neither are tanks or apcs(lol i cant do crap to the enemy in them) the jets are fine the way they are, on the odd chance i am on the ground on kubra or sweep i RARELY get bombed, honestly most pilots can just fly the planes for hours but dont have any idea how to use the bombs

[glcm1961]

Re: Jet Jockeys are taking over

whats with this the only defence to a good pilot is another good pilot... thats crap, i can shake a good pilot for hours if i had to, my main fear as a pilot is the tunguska, just because of the mass of missiles they fire, anyways who cares if a GOOD pilot is owning you, he earned that ability, its no different then if someone keeps owning you with a M4... you guys are basically saying im not good enough to beat the jets so i want something that will basically automatically kill them for me, jets arent easy enough that any idiot could get in them and bomb you accurately, neither are tanks or apcs(lol i cant do crap to the enemy in them) the jets are fine the way they are, on the odd chance i am on the ground on kubra or sweep i RARELY get bombed, honestly most pilots can just fly the planes for hours but dont have any idea how to use the bombs

"on the odd chance i am on the ground on kubra or sweep i RARELY get bombed,"

LOL. Wish I was playing on your server.

[Varsol]

Re: Jet Jockeys are taking over

The key to not being bombed is simply evasion, and not being afraid of humping it out on the ground. You see alot of snipers trying to hide, but does anyone else? Quite often, not engageing something is better than fighting a losing battle. You don't HAVE to use vehicles, you don't HAVE to shood down the aircraft, and enemy aircraft doesn't HAVE to be allowed to take off (you figure that last one out yourself)