Core issue: "Toughies" vs. "Whiners"

[vbl]

These forums have a fundamental split between two groups:

Whiners
Those who think they have legitimate suggestions to change the game dynamics and balance

Toughies
Those who think that players should just play the game they were given

These two groups clash in a few ways.

When the Whiners make a post with a suggestion for game changes, the Toughies are quick to jump on the thread and call the poster names, tell them that they obviously suck, say that they should use the same tactics to win, assume that the suggestion is made only to compensate for the Whiner's personal weaknesses, and tell them that they should just shut up and play and stop being owned.

The Whiners think that Toughies are useless, making non-constructive posts that don't discuss the issues at hand, but instead flame unnecessarily. Sometimes the Toughies are called exploiters, or "cheap", for advocating the use of certain controversial game features (even though they're neither of those things). Sometimes the Whiners will take these criticisms to the Toughies' "I'm so sick of people whining" threads.

Here's my suggestion: Stop posting in each other's threads.

If you're a Toughie and you see a thread suggesting a game change, go wash your car, watch TV or make a sandwich. You're not going to accomplish anything or change anyone's mind.

If you're a Whiner and you see a Toughie's thread telling you to suck it up, just walk away. Go practice, walk your dog, or nap. You're not going to change anyone's mind, either.

[imported_Toxic]

Re: Core issue: "Toughies" vs. "Whiners"

Third Class: Forum Whiner. Someone who decides what a good post is, and how other should behave in a forum.


:)

[Harmor]

Re: Core issue: "Toughies" vs. "Whiners"

So this is a "Toughie" thread?

[vbl]

Re: Core issue: "Toughies" vs. "Whiners"

Third Class: Forum Whiner. Someone who decides what a good post is, and how other should behave in a forum.


:)

I'm sorry, do you like the useless circles that most of these threads end up becoming?

[tjr1973]

Re: Core issue: "Toughies" vs. "Whiners"

I do understand what your saying variable and I don't entirely disagree with you. I just think a game like BF2 should be played like it was designed. It just get's old to see eight million posts on what "needs" to be changed in this game because somebody got owned. Not all suggestive posts are because a player got killed, but you got to admit a lot of them are.

If EA/DICE changed everything in game that this forum and others for that matter, told them to it wouldn't even be BF2 anymore. If people want ultra realism, go play Ghost Recon. This is an arcade style FPS game that has been around in one form or another since 2001. A lot of us like it the way it is and get offended over these repeated MMORPG style change suggestions. I never thought I'd hear the word "nerf" in a FPS.

Not trying to be offensive, just trying to let you know how a lot of us feel on the other side.

[imported_HorrorBusiness]

Re: Core issue: "Toughies" vs. "Whiners"

So this is a "Toughie" thread?

No it's a whiner thread, suck it up Harmor!!!!

[vbl]

Re: Core issue: "Toughies" vs. "Whiners"

I do understand what your saying variable and I don't entirely disagree with you. I just think a game like BF2 should be played like it was designed. It just get's old to see eight million posts on what "needs" to be changed in this game because somebody got owned. Not all suggestive posts are because a player got killed, but you got to admit a lot of them are.

If EA/DICE changed everything in game that this forum and others for that matter, told them to it wouldn't even be BF2 anymore. If people want ultra realism, go play Ghost Recon. This is an arcade style FPS game that has been around in one form or another since 2001. A lot of us like it the way it is and get offended over these repeated MMORPG style change suggestions. I never thought I'd hear the word "nerf" in a FPS.

Not trying to be offensive, just trying to let you know how a lot of us feel on the other side.

Thanks for the intelligent reply.

I will concede, sometimes people DO post because they get worked in a game and then come here to complain. I realize that. Other times people generate viable suggestions.

Either way, I would posit, coming into a thread and telling that person that they suck (or whatever) isn't helpful to anyone. Threads have topics for a reason, and I've never seen anyone title a thread "Please come in here and insult me a lot".

I see both sides, I do. I have to believe that my gameplay has driven at least one person to a forum somewhere to complain, too.

My point is that we're going to have to agree to disagree, and for the sake of a little civility (and community solidarity), just reduce the number of situations where we end up butting heads over basic differences that we're never going to resolve.

[rombaft]

Re: Core issue: "Toughies" vs. "Whiners"

I am one of the figheters against whiners !! Yeeha, I should start my own CLAN , the

TGIGAIIN Clan

meaning
The Game Is Good As It Is Now Clan

or the
KTW clan
Kill The Whiners clan

[DU_is_good_4U]

Re: Core issue: "Toughies" vs. "Whiners"

These forums have a fundamental split between two groups:

Whiners
Those who think they have legitimate suggestions to change the game dynamics and balance

Toughies
Those who think that players should just play the game they were given

These two groups clash in a few ways.

When the Whiners make a post with a suggestion for game changes, the Toughies are quick to jump on the thread and call the poster names, tell them that they obviously suck, say that they should use the same tactics to win, assume that the suggestion is made only to compensate for the Whiner's personal weaknesses, and tell them that they should just shut up and play and stop being owned.

The Whiners think that Toughies are useless, making non-constructive posts that don't discuss the issues at hand, but instead flame unnecessarily. Sometimes the Toughies are called exploiters, or "cheap", for advocating the use of certain controversial game features (even though they're neither of those things). Sometimes the Whiners will take these criticisms to the Toughies' "I'm so sick of people whining" threads.

Here's my suggestion: Stop posting in each other's threads.

If you're a Toughie and you see a thread suggesting a game change, go wash your car, watch TV or make a sandwich. You're not going to accomplish anything or change anyone's mind.

If you're a Whiner and you see a Toughie's thread telling you to suck it up, just walk away. Go practice, walk your dog, or nap. You're not going to change anyone's mind, either.

Where would the fun be then??

[rombaft]

Re: Core issue: "Toughies" vs. "Whiners"

forgot,

There is only one sort of whining what's alowed and perfectly normal, and that is about bugs.

All the rest is just from guys who are getting killed to much, getting frustrated, want to change many things including the point system because they find it to hard to make some rank and want more points, actualy players who are playing the wrong game.

[ChopperKill]

Re: Core issue: "Toughies" vs. "Whiners"

I think it breaks down more into people who have spent money on something and can see flaws in it and the rest are... well immature. The game has flaws and bugs without a doubt. It cannot be argued with because it's a fact. When you spend money and you get a flawed item you either exchange it or want it fixed. This is going to lead to constructive criticism. That's how I see your "whiner" group.

The rest, the "toughies" well maybe they didn't have to earn the money to buy the game. Maybe they got it bought for them by their parents so they don't appreciate or understand the concept of getting value for money. So without a single drop of insight, rationalisation or forethought their fingers spew the stinking, unfiltered garbage in their brains straight onto the forum.

Maybe I'm completely wrong in both cases and I'm an ignorant, patronising moron. Maybe.

[vbl]

Re: Core issue: "Toughies" vs. "Whiners"

I think it breaks down more into people who have spent money on something and can see flaws in it and the rest are... well immature. The game has flaws and bugs without a doubt. It cannot be argued with because it's a fact. When you spend money and you get a flawed item you either exchange it or want it fixed. This is going to lead to constructive criticism. That's how I see your "whiner" group.

The rest, the "toughies" well maybe they didn't have to earn the money to buy the game. Maybe they got it bought for them by their parents so they don't appreciate or understand the concept of getting value for money. So without a single drop of insight, rationalisation or forethought their fingers spew the stinking, unfiltered garbage in their brains straight onto the forum.

Now now, as rombaft stated, sometimes people DO abuse the "I have a legitimate suggestion" flag by flying it when they simply got outskilled.

The problem is that the Toughies often can't tell the difference between a well-thought-out suggestion and a reactionary suggestion. And just the same, the Whiners can't discern when it's appropriate to concede that they, indeed, did get worked and that the game is fine as is.

[[UT]MajorHavoc]

Re: Core issue: "Toughies" vs. "Whiners"

forgot,

There is only one sort of whining what's alowed and perfectly normal, and that is about bugs.

All the rest is just from guys who are getting killed to much, getting frustrated, want to change many things including the point system because they find it to hard to make some rank and want more points, actualy players who are playing the wrong game.

i agree 100%, i couldn't have said it better.

[A_Dirty_Hippie]

Re: Core issue: "Toughies" vs. "Whiners"

I do understand what your saying variable and I don't entirely disagree with you. I just think a game like BF2 should be played like it was designed. It just get's old to see eight million posts on what "needs" to be changed in this game because somebody got owned. Not all suggestive posts are because a player got killed, but you got to admit a lot of them are.

If EA/DICE changed everything in game that this forum and others for that matter, told them to it wouldn't even be BF2 anymore. If people want ultra realism, go play Ghost Recon. This is an arcade style FPS game that has been around in one form or another since 2001. A lot of us like it the way it is and get offended over these repeated MMORPG style change suggestions. I never thought I'd hear the word "nerf" in a FPS.

Not trying to be offensive, just trying to let you know how a lot of us feel on the other side.

Im with you. The wonderful thing about BF is that you can mod it however you want. All the things people want can be placed in mods. Alot of the already are, DC2, PR. If
1). Everyone, regaurdless of stance, would discuss things without resorting to insults and declarations of whose a noob and who isnt.
2) Before anyone starts a topic they do an honest search to see if it has been discussed thouroughly. Then post in that topic.
I think we can continue to post in eachothers threads. Opposing opinions are not a bad thing. Flaming somone whose is different is.

[usiel]

Re: Core issue: "Toughies" vs. "Whiners"

yeah bug whining, bad hardware optimization, etc., is totally acceptable.

The other type I just dont' get. I so wanna make a flip comment about skill level but I'll stop there, heh.