An alternative to the PTK system.

[imported_John-Paul]

As with so many others, I really don't like the current PTK system. As a perfect example of why:

Last night I was playing Strike At Karkand and, right at the corner of a building, I came across two of the enemy, so I began blasting away with my trusty shotgun. In addition to killing them both, I inadvertently delivered a shotgun blast to the face of a team-mate who had rounded the corner and put himself directly behind the two I was in the process of killing. All this happened within the space of a second.

Sure enough, the so-called teammate punished me before his body had even hit the ground; neither giving me the opportunity to apologise, nor accepting any personal responsibility for what happened. In my view, it was at least partly his fault and it sure as hell wasn't a deliberate teamkill on my part.

I think therein lies the problem with the current system: unthinking idiots who punish without ever giving others the benefit of the doubt, along with those who refuse to accept any personal responsibility, even in situations where clearly they should.

Rather than address the number of negative points involved, I'd actually prefer to see a completely different system.

Instead of being given the option to "Punish" or "Forgive" the teamkiller via points, I think I'd prefer the option of either giving them a vote or not.

Page Up = Forgive (No Vote)
Page Down = Punish (One Vote)

Once you accrue a certain number of votes, you're simply booted from the server.

For various reasons, I suspect that would be more effective, and it may overcome the problem of NEVER having enough votes to kick even the most committed teamkillers. I don't like losing hard-earned points because of those who punish by default; it diminishes my enjoyment of the game. I'd prefer to see a system in place that punishes deliberate and reckless teamkilling and, at the same time, spares the players who are making a genuine effort to avoid harming their teammates.

Anyway. Just a thought. I'm interested to know what others think.

[Arqentus]

I know the feeling

To many times i get a TK & punish, yet, i dident even do anything wrong. In all the several thousant people who have died by my hand, only 1 was a true TK, and it was my darn fault for mistaking that person as a enemy.

Every other TK come's from AA's missing target & going after friendly's ( or not even missing target, just switching target widout any reason in the middle of there flight *arf* ). People who run into a A-Strike. People who jump in front or behind my tank/apc when i'm in the middle of a fight with a tank/apc/anti tank guys. Or the even fun, the TK's you dont even do. Like flying your heli in a strait line, only to have a teammate with a plain ram you from behind, and i end up with the TK *arf*.

I also noticed that many people dont seem to notice the Punish/Forgive option. Somebody dies, they dont check there screen, and auto punish ... wieeee Your dead dude, you have nothing to do then wait 5 to 10 second at a minimum, you can atleased press the forgive button for something that was your own daim fault. Grrrrr ... it pisses me off. And cost me the nr1 spot several times already becouse of there mistakes, or becouse of things out of my controll ( like AA's ).

[Odinpalen]

My solution

Give a set number of PTK's per rank. If you dish out more than your limit, you cannot get your next rank. That way you will only hand out your precious PTK's to those who really deserve it.

I can see it now, some a$$hole goes to get promoted and it says sorry you used to many punish team kills, you have dishonoured your team and cannot be promoted. Sorry you now have to open a new account and start over to achieve a higher rank.


Now that would be sweet.

[PBAsydney]

Bring the -2 back!! You get -4 if you are forgiven! It sucks!

[Coderedpl]

good idea and bad idea.

SHouldnt be booted. If you get 3-4 tks then u should be booted

:)

[imported_John-Paul]

Yes, that's what I'm advocating. I assume the current system was put in place to dissuade deliberate teamkilling and it was good in theory, not so good in practice.

I'm not convinced you should lose points for teamkills because it seems to me that those deliberately killing their teammates are not dissuaded by the loss of points. A system that effectively works to boot those players - and, at the same time, works to protect those guilty of accidental teamkills - would be preferable.

In other words, I want a system that:

1) Does a better job of discerning between those who do it accidentally and those who are in there to cause grief to others.
2) Protects legitimate team-players from the unthinking fools who punish without any consideration of the circumstances.

Where those matters are concerned, I don't think the current system succeeds. Hence the desire for change.

[Wheelcipher]

good idea and bad idea.

SHouldnt be booted. If you get 3-4 tks then u should be booted

:)

This is a good idea ... 99% of TK's are accidents. The only time they are on purpose is when you have a 13 year old kid who comes from a broken home and doesn't have an avenue to vent his anger, he must take it out on somebody. Maybe you are taking his seat on the chopper or something. Who knows. Certainly a mental disorder or lack of team play here. I think 3-4 TK's should automatically cause you to be kicked. The person killed should not have the option. I like the idea. Furthermore, once you reach 3-4 TK's, you should be banned from getting on the account server (logging in) for a hour. There are ways to fix these things. I hope the 1.03 patch addresses them correctly.

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[=HzC=Heinz]

John-Paul has attacked the problem with logic and clarity. what's the excuse for the rest of you slackers?

nice ideas Johnner.

[Cuttooth]

I think people should be persuaded to FTK more and PTK deliberate TKers and complete idiots.

One idea would be to reward FTKers with maybe every three FTKs gets you a point (or something similar), or maybe even a PgUp Badge

[StlouisSniper]

This is the way I look at the teamkill system. Everytime I accidentally teamkill someone, I accept the fact that I should be losing 4 points. And the seldom times they dont punish, Im happy about it. It makes for a much less agrivating experence.

[rombaft]

I think the only alternatieve system would be some inteleigent system who know if someone got teamkilles by his own down fault and he punish he should loose 10 points

[Odinpalen]

The tk system is to install a sense of value to life. I see alot of people who say you should be kicked after 4 tk's. Obviously you are noob. Have you ever flown a black hawk fully loaded and been shot. The black hawk crashes and you get punished tk for each rider. Now you think the pilot should get booted?

Like I have posted earlier, a set amount of punnish tks per rank, and if you hand out too many you cannot get promoted with that account ever again. So everytime try to be a total loser peice of $hit and punnish everybody for nothing you risk your account. Its simple and easy. So easy to fix its pathetic.

The team killers are not the problem, its the low lifes who punish becuase mommy and daddy don't love them anymore. Now they spend all their time avoiding reality playing bf2 and ruining everybodies gameplay experience.

[imported_John-Paul]

Re: An alternative to the PTK system.

I've had the Black Hawk experience, too. I was first to the Black Hawk at the very beginning of a round on Operation Clean Sweep. I patiently awaited the team members rushing over to occupy the vacant positions, then I took to the sky. Less than twenty metres up into the air, we were taken out by a MEC pilot who must have crashed into us. Immediately, I was met with the sight of five teamkills attributed to my name and I don't know how many in the Black Hawk punished me because I was kicked from the server after the first three rushed to blame me for their deaths.

Again, it was a classic example of unthinking fools rushing to punish and not allowing themselves even a moment to consider the circumstances. I was the pilot and had only just taken to the sky ... not a SpecOps on the ground who had booby-trapped the helicopter. How was it a deliberate act on my part? I could have overlooked the situation if only one had punished but at least three had issued an instant PTK and I think that's indicative of the mentality of far too many players. "Oh, I died! Someone has pay."

I would never argue in favour of "4 Teamkills" and you're gone. Well, unless they patch the issue of pilots being attributed teamkills when they've merely been taken out by a kamikaze pilot for the opposition ... I just want a system that takes away the ability of the PTK-obsessives to punish team-oriented players.

Quite often I see arguments within the game, all starting with, "Why the f**k did you punish me?" So, it would appear to be a common problem; one that frustrates many players who would otherwise be having an enjoyable experience.

[kornkob]

Re: An alternative to the PTK system.

See now, I don't think the TK system is JUST for those people causing grief to others. It's also for punishiung gross incompetence and negligence.

[imported_John-Paul]

Re: An alternative to the PTK system.

I agree that it's also for punishing gross incompetence and / or negligence. The problem, however, is that those judgements are subjective and in my experience, too often a legitimate accident is still deemed gross incompetence or negligence by the victim.

This is why I'd like to see some of that power removed from their hands.

Given the option to cast a vote (rather than deduct points), they can still punish but not to the extent that their actions are unreasonable and liable to frustrate other players.

A deliberate teamkiller would ultimately get booted, as would someone consistently guilty of incompetence. Both, I hope, would thus be dissuaded from their actions. Obviously if your teamkills are accidental, you're very unlikely to rack up enough "punish votes" to be kicked ... nor will you be frustrated by those who consistently PTK without even thinking.

Again, though ... it's just an idea. I've really appreciated reading everyone's thoughts so far.