Issues in the game

[Do0minator]

Ok, I'm in the mood to get flamed; I've played my share of shooters, and while BF2 has AMAZING graphics, it has quite a few problems, mostly stemming from play balance:

1) Point balance is messed up.

I kill an infantryman, I get two points. I kill a tank, I get two points (usually). A tank is MUCH harder to kill, why is the point cost the same? Same goes for alot of stuff...making vehicles worth more when you kill them would go a LONG way to making the game more balanced.

2) Too much asymmetrical combat.

80% or more of my kills are 'easy'...I'm in a tank or vehicle, and I'm blasting hopelessly outclassed infantry. 90% of my deaths are 'hopeless', where the situation is reversed, or I'm nuked by artillery.

I'd like to have a real chance every time I spawn, instead of "Oh, I spawned in front of a tank, and I'm in the open...I'm dead," or "Oh, I'm in a jeep, he's in a tank...I'm dead." I've never seen a game where so much of the 'combat' is simple slaughter. Spawn protection would be nice, as would more gun emplacements to at least give me a fighting chance sometimes.


3) Air power is messed up.

I can't count the number of times I've hit a chopper with the main gun on my tank twice...and the chopper just flies away to get fast repair. I can't count the number of times I've been one-shotted by a chopper/fighter, regardless of what vehicle I'm in...where's the balance here?

Anti-air weapons are ridiculous. Seldom to they hit, even with 'lock on' and no flares. They reload slowly. The best you can hope for is to damage the air unit, so that it flies off to get free repair. Meanwhile, you're dead, since its weapons oneshot anything no matter what you are.

Don't get me wrong, from a realism point of view, I understand that air power is supreme. But my tank targets like a WW2 vehicle (heck, not even that good), as does most everything else...this should be balanced, one way or the other.

Why does air power get awesome armor, ridiculously powerful weapons, great speed, AND free repair AND free weapon refit? Where's the drawback? The 20 minutes of practice it takes to learn how to fly one well?

Every map that has air power, becomes an air power map. Time and again, the highest scorer (except maybe the commander) is someone in the air. Time and again, the best kill/death ratio is by someone in the air.

Put some decent anti-air weapon emplacements in the game. If air power can oneshot anything, at least let the anti-air oneshot any air it hits.

Scale back the armor a bit on the choppers (50% or more), scale back the damage (30% off, at least) and let them get repaired by an engineer only, and similar for ammo refit.

How about an anti-air infantry kit? Yes, I know air can beat air, but I'd like another option, too.


4) C4 is messed up.

I'm so tired of C4 being used as a superpowerful hand grenade...it doesn't really work that way in the real world, and it screws up play balance (there are already 2 classes with significant anti-vehicle capability, and C4 is much better than anti-tank mines). Why is C4 so blasted hyperpowerful? I actually was in a chopper and C4 killed me while I was 30 feet in the air. We won't even discuss the suicide bomber lame-ness.

Since arty and the UAV trailer can only be killed by C4, make that what C4 is only good for (and, of course, they should get points for doing this). Alternatively, reduce the damage it does when placed out in the open. Alternatively, make it slow to place (5 seconds).

5) Engineer is screwed

I know, all classes have issues, but it really seems like the Engineer gets nailed too much. Yes, his weapon is really good at short range (but so is every other weapon).

His anti-tank mines are nice, but he loses TONS of points to idiots on his own team who run into them (and punish him as well)...as people get more experienced, almost nobody will ever hit them, either side. AT mines should be much harder to see (maybe a "5 second placement" to get the reduced visibility), and no TK point loss on mines that have been in play more than 10 seconds (to make griefing difficult).

He gets points for repair...but the commander gives a MUCH better repair kit, anywhere on the board. The support guy can get points very quickly, as anyone can run over his stuff; similarly, so can the medic. But the engineer has a much harder time getting repair points because he's just not as good or convenient as the commander.

The magic wrench is amazing, but it's not that hard to steal a vehicle from an engineer while he's doing that; the risk/reward ratio seems about right for that, at least.

6) Artillery too brutal

Yes, it's good stuff, but I'm tired of spawning and dying in under 2 seconds to it. Maybe some real warning that it's about to hit? Maybe it shouldn't devastate vehicles so much?

Ok, putting on the asbestos suit.

Take care,

Rick

[ArmyOfOne*]

Actualy, you don't deserve to be flamed, some of your points are legitimate. I agree on #5,#2, and #1, and sort of on #3(i think the c4 was ony your chopper when you hovered, then it blew you up once airbourne. This is actually one of the best rants ever formed i give it an 9/10 and it is the second arguement backed up by knowledge ever on the forums, not just screaming, "OMG t3h BH killed my it must be nerfed and cant be allowed to cap". I salute you.

[Versus3k]

I agree with you on several of your points, especially the spawning issue and the AA placements.

I've lost count the number of times I've spawned at a CP to find myself staring down the barrel (is it a barrel?) of an enemy tank. I do feel that when you spawn with your squad leader that you should continue to run the risk of getting killed straight away. If the SL is in a jeep and facing a tank then it's just bad luck.

The AA placements are ineffective against planes and seem to have a less than often chance of hitting a helo, but the mobile AA seems ok at taking out planes. At least the few times I've managed to get in to one that was free, I've managed to take down several planes.

[DinaDani]

Hell yes. Though some points are missing (will add some below), I agree with almost everything here except the arty and the engineer point. Actually, I only disagree with arty because of lack of knowledge about the engineer.

Especially #3 is so valid. Multiple times I've shot the heli with 2 stinger/IGLA/etc and it just keeps on flying. I don't want a certain death, but the heli wasn't even smoking. After a ridicously long reload time, i can try again, but most helipilots have memorized all the stationary AA turrets by now, and I'm dead because of that rocket-pod spam. Which brings me to another point, that those rockets are too powerful. Countless numbers of times, I've been in a AA-tank, blasting away at the heli. Now with the damage of the AA is nothing wrong. 4 AA missiles can bring a heli down, but one of the 14 (i think the rocket pod das that much before reloading) can take down a AA-tank. It would not be the first time that I would go from one full hp tank to burning metal in miliseconds. And the spam makes it impossible to leave your tank, since the splash-damage will get you.

What's more, in clanwars, locking a base with a vehicle with a heli is immensely easy too. The TV-missile, with some training, can devestate almost any vehicle. I've seen wars where (take dalian plant for example) the heli-spawn is the most valuable of all, solely because of the power of the heli.


What has been bugging me more and more is the imbalance of some of the weapons which you get at the start (which will be used in clanwars, no unlockables there). Being primary a Anti-tank guy, I'm stuck with a mp5. The damage output on that gun is a joke, as well as the accuracy. It would be so much better if BF2 used a cone, so that ironsighted single shots would actually hit a guy on the long distance. Instead, the mp5 is being graced with some rediculous random number which decides if it a hit or not. Not that it matters, since I would need about 5 or 6 hits before he goes down. Hell, it's better to snipe with my pistol than it is with my mp5. You can snipe fairly well with the AT-missile as well, but moving targets are still pretty hard since you need to hit spot on with that thing, having hardly no splash-damage at all. All the other classes (except the engineer) get some kickass automatic which deals a fair amount of damage and is usable at short and long distances alike. Instead, i get to risk running to an opponent up close and spamming him to death. Most times i would just get spammed back in a quick reaction by him, dropping to his awesome damage per bullet, or, even worse, get naded by that nadelauncher on the assault class (by judging from clanwars, is the primary gun used in infantry fights and seems a tad overpowered). I'd love to see the engi and AT class get some love with their primary guns, since it's below par up short, and total crap at long distances.

Oh and why is it that the AT class gets no handgrenades?

[/rant]

[shadow_wolf]

Why is C4 so blasted hyperpowerful?

if anything its very underpowered compared to real life. In real life you could probably take out a building with that much C4. Also, like said above, someone probably stuck C4 to your chopper while you were low. I know ive done it to unsuspecting pilots who landed to cap a base (too bad it wasnt a full blackhawk...I would have been on the floor laughing :laugh: )

[Do0minator]

if anything its very underpowered compared to real life. In real life you could probably take out a building with that much C4. Also, like said above, someone probably stuck C4 to your chopper while you were low. I know ive done it to unsuspecting pilots who landed to cap a base (too bad it wasnt a full blackhawk...I would have been on the floor laughing :laugh: )

I just don't think so...took off, flew to another base. He'd mined the opening in the gate, and set it off as we flew through/over the gate opening. As my corpse floated to the ground, we saw him there.

And that much c4, properly placed, would take out a building, if all 5 packs were placed at critical junctures, maybe. Out in the open, randomly tossed packs just won't do much to armor. Might make a crater, mind you, will certainly make a big dust cloud, probably do damage to a modern tank 20 feet away...but not obliterate it.

Again, it's as much a play balance issue as anything else. The other two classes that can take out a tank have a relatively weak medium/long range gun (and being strong at short range is not particularly relevant with the damage model the game uses...twice as dead as dead is still dead, after all). I just don't see why this class needs a superior gun AND superior AT ability.

And good comment about the AT kit not having grenades, sure seems like it should.

Take care,

Rick

[rombaft]

game balance is just fine .

Killing a tank is 2 points, so ? taking down tanks isn't this hard, with C4 it's done in a sec. And if you would make tank blowing up like 4 points, everyone would want to be in the tank because with a tank you take other tanks out. you need more practice.


Fact that you die and you couldn't do anything about it is because you don't look around and don't play good, start sneaking around, look around, run only when crossing streets, .....

AIR power, two tank hits and the chopper stil fly's around ? you can't shoot man, I take a chopper down in one tank shot (window) or max two and it blows to pieces. it's part of the gamebalance that you won't take a chopper down always in one shot.

Stinger misile could be better, only thing I agree on, not against chopper because they are like to easy to take down, but planes are very hard to get down.

An airplane is powerfull, but your team has them to, and you team planes can take airplanes down.

If C4 would take 5 sec to place down and/or power down of it, tanks will dominate the whole map and nothing to do about it, C4 is perfect the way it is, and with the next patch the destroying of artilery and stuff will bring up points.

the engineer, well get the jackhamer as unlock then, this one rocks everything down at close range. place mines good and you won't get teamkills, and repair only on a good place, I never got ripped my tank or APC away while repairing, never.


artilery is just fine, for my it may be even more powerfull so tanks would be taken out to, it should clear an area.

I think or you need more practice or you should look for another game, when you think you get killed and you couldn't do anything about it, well, then there is something wrong

[Roderick]

My only beef with C4 use is how easy it is activated. Players drop it from Blackhawks and use it like a falling Atomic Bomb. They run up to tanks and vehicles and don't have to prepare it in any time fashion what so ever and blow up tanks easier than any AT could. They actually take away the AT's role in the game.

What I find funny is when you shoot a tank shell at the commications terminal or an artillery battery, you see an X hit registering a hit was made, but of course you cannot destroy it with ease yet with C4, it is as easy as pie.

Personally with 2 kits already suited for Anti Vehicle purposes, I would like to see C4 nullified or severely weakened when used on a tank or have a delay added to force the player to have to actually set the charge and give an opportunity for the driver to counter attack in some fashion. Right now there is just too many suicide attacks on armor to the point where the player does not care if they lose points for the act.

Or, they should add a penalty for intentional suiciding which is exactly what a lot of C4 users do more now than anything when a big tank rolls in. That should be AT or an Engies job to handle, but with C4, it defeats both of their roles entirely.

[rombaft]

What I find funny is when you shoot a tank shell at the commications terminal or an artillery battery, you see an X hit registering a hit was made, but of course you cannot destroy it with ease yet with C4, it is as easy as pie.

shooting a tank with AT is so easy my grandma could even do it, you can hit him from like the other side of the map.

Placing C4 on it you have to get next to it and run away so you don't kil yourself.

Strange thing is, My tank or apc almost never got C4 on it, I look around and do not place my tank just next to a corner/ building/ ..... , an on the other hand I take lots of tanks out with C4 because most of them aren't looking around enough and place there tank so dam easy to run next to it

[no_reply]

I'm sure the Stingers make Aircraft stronger!

[Roderick]

shooting a tank with AT is so easy my grandma could even do it, you can hit him from like the other side of the map.

Placing C4 on it you have to get next to it and run away so you don't kil yourself.

Strange thing is, My tank or apc almost never got C4 on it, I look around and do not place my tank just next to a corner/ building/ ..... , an on the other hand I take lots of tanks out with C4 because most of them aren't looking around enough and place there tank so dam easy to run next to it

Yes, I play AT or used to before my recent change to Support to learn something new. So mastering AT rockets I can say I have, but placing C4 on the side of a Tank is just as easy. I have done it quite a few times and I don't even play Special Ops with any liking of the kit. I just use it when I need to rid myself of the pest tank faster than using AT.

It is so simple to run into a tank. Any pro SO can tell you this. The trend now is the C4 user not caring if they die with the tank, you get a penalty for the suicide which is -2 and then an award for the tank kill and 2 points for the tank kill, so the result is as nothing happened to you except you just added a death to your stats.

If the SO wants to run away from the tank, then by all means that is a challenge, but most don't now. They run in and blow up with the tank just to get rid of the tank entirely. This is more commonplace and too easy to do in my opinion.

[imported_Tumbler]

Ok, I'm in the mood to get flamed; I've played my share of shooters, and while BF2 has AMAZING graphics, it has quite a few problems, mostly stemming from play balance:

1) Point balance is messed up.

I kill an infantryman, I get two points. I kill a tank, I get two points (usually). A tank is MUCH harder to kill, why is the point cost the same? Same goes for alot of stuff...making vehicles worth more when you kill them would go a LONG way to making the game more balanced.

2) Too much asymmetrical combat.

80% or more of my kills are 'easy'...I'm in a tank or vehicle, and I'm blasting hopelessly outclassed infantry. 90% of my deaths are 'hopeless', where the situation is reversed, or I'm nuked by artillery.

Great post. I have to say the 2 things that are most wrong with this game is 1 and 2. You are correct that points currently do not reflect the effort put into the game.

I've played AT class a lot and I always feel like using AT missles on tanks is a waste because at most you stand to gain 2 points if you manage to hit the tank 3 times and the driver doesn't just jump out and run off. There should definitely be bonus pts involved for certain situations and less points for others.

Killing infantry with a tank should be 1 point. Killing a tank with infantry should be 3 pts. Killing infantry with a 203 should be 1 point, killing them with a rifle should be 2. AT mine kills should be like 5. They are so absurdly hard currently and take so much effort even getting 5 pts each kill may not make this class competitive.

I'd love to see pts per kill adjusted to how difficult it is to kill targets with certain weapons. Living long enough to kill a tank with 3 AT shots hard enough but only getting 2 pts for all that when you could use those 3 rockets to take out 3 infantry and get 6 pts just doesn't make sense.

[Do0minator]

>>game balance is just fine . <<

Nope. If that were the case, there'd be balance in how people die. It's a simple matter to check stats and see this is not the case. Air power completely dominates, with armor a respectable second. Depends on the map, of course.

Pretty graphics, though.

>>Killing a tank is 2 points, so ? taking down tanks isn't this hard, with C4 it's done in a sec. And if you would make tank blowing up like 4 points, everyone would want to be in the tank because with a tank you take other tanks out. you need more practice.<<

Except that c4 is messed up, not sure if you read the whole thing. Perhaps you need more practice reading.

Moreover, air power dominates (probably because it's mostly immune to c4), and AT mines and the AT kit are quite capable of taking out a tank.

Still point balancing would make things more interesting; it takes a great deal of effort to kill an air unit, but the reward is much less than baseraping. Gee, which tactic do most players focus on?


>>
Fact that you die and you couldn't do anything about it is because you don't look around and don't play good, start sneaking around, look around, run only when crossing streets, .....<<

You don't think well, and might have been worthwhile to read the post before responding.

The issue isn't about my dying; I score a great many kills against helpless infantry...doesn't really matter, many times, what they do.

>>AIR power, two tank hits and the chopper stil fly's around ? you can't shoot man, I take a chopper down in one tank shot (window) or max two and it blows to pieces. it's part of the gamebalance that you won't take a chopper down always in one shot.<<

Maybe you're playing a different game? I can shoot a cobra in the face and it doesn't go down. The pilot just sits there and calmly launches the missiles; sometimes I get a second shot off into his face before he takes me out.

But I get the feeling that you are playing a different game, and perhaps are responding to a different post.


>>
Stinger misile could be better, only thing I agree on, not against chopper because they are like to easy to take down, but planes are very hard to get down.<<

Ok, the game you're playing has something in common with the one I'm talking about, probably where the confusion is coming from.

>>
An airplane is powerfull, but your team has them to, and you team planes can take airplanes down.<<

Not always; you might note in my post that you didn't quite read, I mentioned how air power can take out air power...but other options are needed.

If I go onto a pub server, and the opposing team has 2 pilots, and my team has none...my team loses. It's that simple, and the reverse is true as well. I'd like games to be decided by more than just who has the better pilots.

>>If C4 would take 5 sec to place down and/or power down of it, tanks will dominate the whole map and nothing to do about it, C4 is perfect the way it is, and with the next patch the destroying of artilery and stuff will bring up points.<<


In the game I play, there's an 'anti-tank' kit, and it's not that hard at all for an anti-tank player to kill a tank. There's also an engineer kit, that has an unlikely but decent chance of doing so as well. There are also gun emplacements that can one-shot a tank.

C4 is just wrong the way it is, as many, many, posts on this forum testify.

>>
the engineer, well get the jackhamer as unlock then, this one rocks everything down at close range. place mines good and you won't get teamkills, and repair only on a good place, I never got ripped my tank or APC away while repairing, never.<<

Odd, guess I've never played against you (no surprise since it seems like we're playing different games); I've stolen quite a few tanks that way. And, in the game I play, I can't control the stupidity of my teammates, it doesn't much matter where I place mines, they'll run over them.

And yes, the jackhammer is good in the game I play as well; but it's not so effective at medium/long range, and the ammo supply is a bit small, making it very difficult to fight 2 guys. But this is a minor issue, and quite possibly a personal one, so I didn't mention it in my post.


>>
artilery is just fine, for my it may be even more powerfull so tanks would be taken out to, it should clear an area.<<

I'm afraid the syntax here is too garbled to respond to adequately. Artillery is a bit too strong, in my opinion; more hits should be damaging instead of fatal, and vehicles, especially closed ones, should be less vulnerable.

>>
I think or you need more practice or you should look for another game, when you think you get killed and you couldn't do anything about it, well, then there is something wrong
<<

I think you didn't read my post, and it's quite possible that we're not playing the same game.

It's not a matter of practice, it's a matter of issues in the game. I've scored suicide bombs and massive kills with randomly chucked C4; c4 is broken...took all of one try to get my basic badge. I've seen way too many air units take way too much damage and get way too high ratios...no amouint of practice on my part could change that. No amount of practice on my part can prevent teammates from stupidly running into my mines. No amount of practice on my part can allow me to survive when I spawn in the open and there's a tank barrel pointing right at me, or when artillery is raining down.

But again, I think you didn't quite read my post, and may very well be playing a different, but related game...Call of Duty, maybe?

Take care,

Rick