Jack Tompson Looks To Ban Video-Games

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  • Yuf

    #136
    Originally posted by volkl
    Here's an interesting interview with Jack Thompson:


    After reading it, I believe the reply you received from him is real (hilarious IMO). I'm still not 100% convinced that you are really a parent. But if you are, I'm with Jack on this one. He may well be another amublance-chasing greedy lawyer but I agree entirely with all his interview responses. Battlefield 2 is a great game, albeit violent. I'd hate to see it banned. Nor should it be. But games like GTA are purely anti-social. Don't buy into that phony and dismissive "it's the parents' responsibility" argument. Yes it's true, parents have the responsibility to monitor their kids. But the fact is, many do not. And third parties should not suffer as a consequence.

    For those who are in denial of the effects of violent games, answer me this: after playing Battlefield 2 all night do you ever dream of running around the map as if still playing in your head? Obviously there's something interacting with your brain circuitry. Or how about going outside after playing Far Cry for several hours. What is your first impulse when you hear a chopper overhead? Ever think, need to grab my rocket launcher and shoot it before it takes me out?

    I only read about half the thread, but it seemed to need an opposing point of view. So there you have it. It'll be interesting to see if I am banned for not towing the party line (I fully expect to get flamed).
    I appreciate an opposing view, but after reading through that interview I still think he's grandstanding. I think anyone who can't make the distinction between fantasy and reality needs to seek psychiatric help. Ozzy went through the same scrutiny over the course of his career. Columbine was the result of what happens in every high school across the country - kids picking on other kids. Games may have been a source of escapism, but I seriously doubt that they read like an instructional manual.

    In that same vein, I recall a case against Midway where the parents of a child murdered in a shooting claimed that playing games allowed [the shooter] to fire off six head shots over the course of three seconds, which is higher than marksmanship quals in the military. I can learn that headshots are bad just by watching the opening sequence to Saving Private Ryan, and by citing that i'm probably helping along Thompson's cause in some small way, but I believe that if he were serious about change, then he'd look at the whole picture rather than just one facet.

    My first game was Street Fighter when it first game out on the Genesis, a game that my mom originally didn't want to buy because it had blood in it. A few years later when I enrolled in Karate she sat me down and made damn sure that I knew the difference between what I saw on the screen and what I could do in real life. This was an 8 to 7 mom, and my dad was in the military and still managed to call and make sure I knew. Afterwards, when I started going through some social problems (School. Suprise suprise.) she sat me down again, and when she was sure that I was still not saying all there was to say, she took me to a shrink. I sat in his office for an hour, and he said that I was completely fine. That was the only time I ever went to a shrink. When I was 14 I punched my brother hard enough to shatter the bone that supports the eyeball. Why? He hit me first. Why'd he hit me? It was a fight amongst siblings. It had nothing to do with a video game. I punched him in the face because i'd been hit in the face and knew it hurt.

    I'll be the first to admit that retailers don't play by the rules. M-rated games go to 17+ period, but when these changes are made and the parent has to purchase the game for their child (therefore taking on the responsibility), what then? I seriously doubt that the scraps that are allegedly attributed to video games are going to stop, and I doubt further at that point that responsibility will stop with the parent. We'll see more Old Woman cases saying how they were mislead, that they didn't know, never realizing that it's their job to know.

    Nope, never had fantasies about Battlefield 2. I have random points where I brainstorm movie ideas, but that's about it. Probably the only game that has any type of effect on me is the Sims 2, where I dreamt I could click an arrow and speed up time. Dunno how that counts anyway, making a distinction between two similiar situations is something we do all the time, whether it's "Hey, I was here yesterday" or "Sweet! A blackhawk! Those are in BF2!"

    I understand why people are pissed off. I personally don't like it that someone is telling me that I have no moral code because I play video games, or that by exposing it to children I have the makings of an abusive father. I'm of the belief that a good number of the folks that play this game are teens and are standing up and shouting "Look here! We're not all psychotic!" but the media in all it's whorey looks solely to the negative. Thompson is in it for the money. His movement will most likely overtake the US since every politician looking to get some spotlight is getting behind him. I can get behind him on some of the points that he's proposing, but overall I think he's a fanatic.

    If you're really interested in violence, read the Bible.

    Comment

    • [LG]Cataclysm

      #137
      Originally posted by SL4Y3R
      i think if we banned videogames there would be massive violent riots in protest to get them back.

      Does anyone agree?
      No, that would prove their "theory". The best we can do is be like Ghandi, peaceful resistance.

      Comment

      • Elohim

        #138
        Originally posted by [LG]Cataclysm
        No, that would prove their "theory". The best we can do is be like Ghandi, peaceful resistance.
        Ghandi was an avid racist and a pedophile, might be better to go with Martin Luther King, Jr.

        Comment

        • volkl

          #139
          Originally posted by Crashlander
          So it's video games fault. Funny, last year it was Marilyn Mansun's fault. It's never the fault of the person committing the act is it? I have played violent video games all my life, I watched the Hellraiser films when I was 10 and I'm now studying to be an electronic bookeeper. My Brother on the other hand, has never played games, and he's in prison for murder.
          Doesn't seem to make any sense does it? You know, when there's nothing else to blame?
          If I ever bought a gun, walked into a shopping centre and blew away some poor mother shopping with her kids, It wouldn't have been the fault of GTA. A damn video game can't pick up a gun. I can, so its my fault.
          Bloody do gooders.

          Right then, Our lass has just come in and we're off to see War of the Worlds. Soon after I'll be machine-gunning a town centre because you ARE ALL MARTIANS!! I have to save the world!! It's the FILM'S FAULT!!

          Sigh.
          No it's the fault of the person who commits the violent crime. I'm not sure who has said otherwise (other than grieving parents looking to cash in). But violent video games can, in the case of a few individuals, be the straw that breaks the camel's back. And when these games are illegally sold to minors, the retailers become accomplices as are the parents for not providing proper supervision. And when publishers seek to evade the content rating system, they too are accomplices.

          Let's make a few stipulations that everyone can agree on (hopefully):
          (1) Some violent criminals have never played video games
          (2) Some video game players have never committed a violent crime
          (3) Violent crime existed before video games
          (4) None of the above three points neither proves nor disproves a link between violent video games and crime

          If you had stats that showed 22% of youths in the general population play violent games and 22% of youths arrested for violent crimes play violent games that would suggest no link between the two. Or if 22% of the general population were gamers but 75% of those arrested were gamers then that would strongly suggest a link. The personal experiences of one or two people prove nothing.

          PS - Marilyn Manson is a degenerate and a freak (redundant?).

          Comment

          • volkl

            #140
            Originally posted by Elohim
            Games aren't going to be banned in the United States. Period. The only thing they can do is up the punishment for retailers selling mature games to underage kids.
            I agree they are unlikely to be banned and, more likely, restrictions in sales to minors will be more heavily enforced (yeah I would have been opposed to that too when I was under 18). Not that you raised the issue but, banning sales to minors is not a first amendment issue. No more than a ban on cigarettes, alcohol, or pornography is. As far as banning sales to adults, I could see constitutional grounds for doing so in the case of a few extreme titles that would pass the first amendment test. We all realize there are limits. Inciting violent overthrow of the government is not constitutionally protected speech. Britain has just recently clamped down on clerics who incite their followers to violence. Following the logic of some posters, the clerics cannot make these kids do anything they don't want to do and thus should be held harmless. Admittedly, the anology is not perfect but I think it illustrates the point.

            Originally posted by Elohim
            It's funny when you look at it, because the previous generation always finds something to ***** about and tries to censor it: Elvis dances too sexy. Rock and Roll is a tool of the devil. Everyone who plays Dungeons and Dragons is a witch. Beavis and Butthead and Southpark are degrading our nation's youth. I'm sorry, but the more I read interviews with Jack Thompson, the more I want to blame the parents. Yes, I agree that retailers should be restricted from selling games to those who are underage, but I think the parent commits the biggest crime by letting his or her child come home and play the game. I don't give a **** if that parent works 60 hours a week, if you're not involved with your child's development, you don't deserve to have kids. Parents who blame their kid's actions on video games, or kids who blame their actions on video games, are scum and are just looking to shrug off responsibility.



            Of course video games have an effect on your sensory input. Humans are adaptive creatures, and we're going to react to stimuli. Does that mean there's something malignant behind it? No. If you play a game and you don't shoot the helicopter, you lose a life. It's the same thing as if you don't drive on the right side of the road, you get in an accident. There's a huge difference between thinking these things and then acting upon them. You know how many people think about killing their bosses? Look at the conversations today, a lot of people say "I'll kill you" in a joking matter. If you want to follow that line of logic, look to ban fictional literature next, because there are a lot of concepts that could be considered bad and because the author's thought these concepts up mean they fully intend on acting upon them, right?

            The point is, if you can't distinguish between reality and fiction, you have no business playing video games. If you're a parent, that means not buying your son or daughter an Xbox, or if you do, you need to take an active role in your child's life and actually pay attention. Maybe that's the problem, maybe parents don't pay enough attention to their kids and the kids in turn escape into video games. Parents that blame someone else for their kid getting ****ed up along the way need to be castrated.

            You should also consider the millions and millions of people who play video games without going apeshit, too.

            People get hostile when you "steal" their tank or chopper in game. Are you suggesting that all gamers are naturally uptight and rude? There should be no doubt that these games have, at a minimum, a short-term effect on personality. If you trust the APA, here's where they stand on the effects of violent games:



            For those who have accepted the effect, the second issue is an appropriate remedy. I disagree with an outright ban. Just like I disagree that we should all drive 5mph because it might save one life. Life involves risk and you cannot punish millions of people because a few of them have a vulnerability. However, those who dismiss any possible effects out of hand are just as guilty as those who call for an immediate outright ban of having an agenda.

            Comment

            • volkl

              #141
              Originally posted by Yuf
              I appreciate an opposing view, but after reading through that interview I still think he's grandstanding. I think anyone who can't make the distinction between fantasy and reality needs to seek psychiatric help. Ozzy went through the same scrutiny over the course of his career. Columbine was the result of what happens in every high school across the country - kids picking on other kids. Games may have been a source of escapism, but I seriously doubt that they read like an instructional manual.

              In that same vein, I recall a case against Midway where the parents of a child murdered in a shooting claimed that playing games allowed [the shooter] to fire off six head shots over the course of three seconds, which is higher than marksmanship quals in the military. I can learn that headshots are bad just by watching the opening sequence to Saving Private Ryan, and by citing that i'm probably helping along Thompson's cause in some small way, but I believe that if he were serious about change, then he'd look at the whole picture rather than just one facet.
              Well, Hillary is certainly grandstanding. Apparently sex with interns in the Oval Office is ok but not sex hidden on a video game. You may be right that this lawyer is out to make a name for himself (and millions of dollars). It's rare that lawyers are strictly concerned with ethics. As far as other violent mediums (Saving Private Ryan was a great production btw), they are passive not active. The APA has allegedly proven distinct differences in the effects. See link from prior post.

              Comment

              • volkl

                #142
                Originally posted by [LG]Cataclysm
                Oh, I hear a heli, I gotta go blow it up, BRB.
                Ok, that was kinda funny. But it tells me you've probably never played Far Cry all the way through. In which case you are missing the best FPS made to date. Yeah Half-Life 2 has slightly better physics and graphics but Far Cry has much better gameplay.

                Comment

                • TheInvisibleMan

                  #143
                  If Jackass Thompson believes so strongly that video games are the root of all evil, then maybe he should check with EA to see how many hours the Taliban logged into BF2...

                  I personally think I have seen more violence come out of kids from watching WWF wrestling or those incredibly violent action cartoons.

                  I grew up listening to bands like Slayer, Cannibal Corpse, Deicide, etc. I've been playing FPS games since before the original Wolfenstein. I love mobster movies and horror movies crack me up. www.ogrish.com was a frequently visited website.

                  I STILL listen to the same music (and a wide mix of everything else)... I still love to watch those kinds of movies and I will always play first person shooters.

                  What I also do is donate to charities; use my home to foster dogs; I raise two kids whom I love VERY VERY MUCH; I am Vegan; I am against REAL violence; I pay my taxes; I hold a great job; I give people a helping hand and I'm good to my wife.

                  The entire gaming world shouldn't have to suffer because of parents that are too blind to see that their kids have problems... Or this clown lawyer...

                  Comment

                  • Ryoshima

                    #144
                    Reading some stuff about him and I came across this, something he accuses EA and Maxis about,

                    "added an accusation that EA and Maxis were cooperating with the mod community to peddle vile to minors"

                    Can tell you right now thats not entirely true, when did EA help the mod community? = P

                    Comment

                    • glasseye

                      #145
                      Originally posted by volkl
                      You may be right that this lawyer is out to make a name for himself (and millions of dollars). It's rare that lawyers are strictly concerned with ethics. As far as other violent mediums (Saving Private Ryan was a great production btw), they are passive not active. The APA has allegedly proven distinct differences in the effects. See link from prior post.
                      of course he is. its the same guy that had 'cop killer' pulled off the shelves.

                      its a good plan though, you see i sue game companies for millions/billions of dollars and if i win i get like 10-40%. if i lose it doesnt matter, because w/ the amount of violent crime in the world, i can just pick another case to use and sue them for, i also dont have to worry about my finances because they get payed by the families i am using.

                      its also hard to take somebody seriously that allegedly sends very strange emails

                      about the apa link, you are talking about the link to thompsons interview on gamespeak? i read those awhile ago and thompson never actually gave any proof. he just said things as if they were facts but gave nothing to verify them.
                      did you read the Q&A sessions coming after? claude errera, from halo.bungie.org had this link to study on US school safety issues in response to thompsons claims of a video game related rise in school violence.

                      Comment

                      • Megaraptor

                        #146
                        This guy's been emailed by a lot of gamers and always responds with insults.

                        Comment

                        • imported_Andy

                          #147
                          sent the guy an email giving him my 2 cent still hasnt replied this was a few weeks ago

                          Comment

                          • Yuf

                            #148
                            Originally posted by volkl
                            Well, Hillary is certainly grandstanding. Apparently sex with interns in the Oval Office is ok but not sex hidden on a video game. You may be right that this lawyer is out to make a name for himself (and millions of dollars). It's rare that lawyers are strictly concerned with ethics. As far as other violent mediums (Saving Private Ryan was a great production btw), they are passive not active. The APA has allegedly proven distinct differences in the effects. See link from prior post.
                            Yeah, i've read a few of those studies (Mostly because they were shoved under my nose by a super-conservative instructor), and in a majority of those cases the info seems stretched IMO. The biggest bone I will give is that slaving over a controller and/or keyboard increases hand/eye coordination. I probably wouldn't be able to type half as well as I do iff'n I hadn't spent my earlier years behind a Genesis controller, but overall I feel that those changes are neither good or bad. In my own experience playing shooters didn't help my aim behind a real gun at all. I thought it would (I wanted to be a cop) and spent a few hours every night on Duckhunt honing my skillz. It never helped. I have no doubt that there are kids out there who can score perfect in marksmanship, but i'm willing to bet that 85% of them will have shot a gun before. I feel that there are no definitive studies either way, and until there are, the finger is always going to be planted firmly in gaming's direction - partly because it hasn't "chosen a side yet".

                            Saving Private Ryan was an excellent movie, and I effing love Spiehlburg for trying to ditch the Hollywood as much as possible.

                            Hillary I just find offensive. I'm all for a woman as President, but i'd rather she have her own ideas instead of being reminscient of a Stepford Wife. Granted, if she were a free thinker she'd never get support on either side of the sex line.

                            Comment

                            • numerobofis

                              #149
                              someone should threaten to sue him. of course dont do it, but find a good excuse and scare him.

                              Comment

                              • [R-Mod]Scoggs

                                #150
                                well i tried to email him but his email address is no longer availible... it appears he canceld his account... I think we won that battle!

                                oh and ur sig is dead

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