Dispelling the myth of the "defensive" titan placement

[Zarious]

Ok I have to post here and rant for a second. I've seen this mentioned a few times, and ran into it last night in a server.

Please, PLEASE let me dispel the myth of the "defensive" Titan placement. Their is no such thing. No REALLY, all you do when you park a titan in the middle of no where is cripple your team's offense. I'm going to lay this out in such a way that hopefully ppl will understand it, and will at least consider my points, even if they don't think I'm right.


Why it's a bad idea

When you park the titan in the middle of nowhere, you put yourself and your team at several dis-advantages. First of all, you can't bring the titan guns to bear (ok that's not necessary a negative), but most importantly, you can't pod anywhere. Usually one silo max. While the enemy is capping every silo with ease because they can be back in seconds, your team is spawning on the deck of their titan (because all the silos are red) and waiting on transports, which some noob is going to jump in and either crash instantly, or fly off before anyone can enter it, then crash it.

Why ppl think it will work, and why it doesn't

In a perfect world, a defensive titan placement seems like a good idea. The strategy behind it usually goes like this. Make the enemy have to go out of it's way to get to you, so that it's easier for the gunships and titan guns to kill the APC's, and so that it's easier for the AA's to shoot down the transports.

Only here's the million dollar secret. It don't work that way. In a pub, you're not going to get that kind of coordination. It only takes one squad leader to get up one beacon, and it's all been for nothing. The enemy is pouring on your titan. You've given your offense a huge dis-advantage, and the only small advantage you gain is easily defeated.

Why you lose, even if it works

Lets just assume for one second (for the sake of argument) that a "defensive" placement actually worked. You're still setting your self up to lose. Think about it. You've allowed the enemy to have a huge offensive advantage during the first half of the game, and they have likely gotten your shields down first. By making it difficult or impossible (remember we're assuming it's working) for the enemy to board your titan, they'll just go back to the ground where they already have a huge advantage. They can still pod to pretty much any silo, and your guys are stuck trying to find a ride off the titan. You still lose, it just takes longer.

Lastly, who died and made this guy the god of strategy

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that a defensive titan placement is an automatic lose button, but your team will have to have a pretty high skill advantage to overcome this dis-advantage. What makes me qualified to say any of this, and why should you listen me at all?
WARNING, GRATUITOUS EGO/E-PEEN STROKING AHEAD
I helped develop the titan strategy for my competition team, Team Apotheosis. We held the #1 spot on the TWL 12 v 12 Titan ladder longer than anyone else has, retiring recently with a 18-1 record. I have over 700 hours in pubbing Titan alone, and have participated in over 40 titan matches and scrims, teh majority of which it was my job to develop and implement the strategy used. /end e-peen stroking

In other words, I don't think I'm the finial word on this (please don't take it as that), but I'm not just some nub shooting off about something he doesn't know about. Anyone care to rebut?

[Wizrdwarts]

:yay:

100% agreed. I had a cmdr who did this in Suez, really, it's all flat anyways. And it pretty much makes a titan game no fun when you have no silos and the pods are out of range of everything.

[tuco]

who was the team that played in a titan ladder that worked out if you put the titan in a certain place some silos missiles allways miss, and never attacked said silos so they werent as spread out. they allways won, then retired/got booted?

[Wizrdwarts]

I dunno, but not that I think of it, the cmdr was just trying to avoid the silo missiles by moving the titan back. They miss a lot on Suez apparently.

[Catziggy]

This is a thread on the Timeless forum I made about the same thing. It has some screenshots showing exactly what you have listed.

http://www.timelessgaming.com/forums/showthread.php?t=392

[MohicanGR]

I find it stupid too, especially when in dense-silos maps like Suez and Sidi. However, putting the Titan out of harm's way IS a strategy in some very specific conditions:

1. If the commander really commands, instead of flying around and collecting hours, placing the Titan above the base facilities means that he can usually defend those on his own, even drop down and repair occasionally. In this case, his team is 100% focusing on the silos and he has his resources 100% functional at all times.

2. In maps with narrow passages and strong defense points on the ground, like in Minsk, keeping the Titan at the end of a long "corridor" along these fortified positions can cut down enemy attacks very drastically. Of course, this is true only when you can have 1-2 SAAW or AA people around the Titan and you keep killing any APC parked near by. This may give a "speed" advantage in re-spawning for the defense team.

3. Taking the Titan complete at the edge of the map is completely useless in all cases, since you don't protect any resources on the ground you give your team a hard time to travel into the main battlezone.

All and all, I think the possible advantages are too weak and hard to make use of in non-clan games. Also, a Titan parked over 2+ silos is so devastating for the enemy, they just focus on the other silos (in first half) or forget about silos completely (in the second half) and give the other team easy hitpoints on the enemy Titan. This is why at least half the games are finished by silo hits and not by console/core blast.

[=)BiT(=AutoFodder]

Until the shields are up I move the titan in a place near the other or near silos. Before the shields go down I move it to a place where the other team can't enter our titan easily. This only works if ur team is good and u are on the winning side.

I think that may be the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life.

EDIT: That was quoted from the timeless fourms

[Wizrdwarts]

Pre-patch 1.10?

[Biotech2142]

When I was aiming to achieve the WCR, I always moved the titan in a position where the guns could attack/defend the most important silo(s) while we could pod to at least 3 silos.

The best defense is to position the titan where you can deny and slow the enemy in taking the silos: because your shields will be around 50% most of the time when the enemy shields are down.

With this tactic, I had a w/l ratio of 3:1 back then.

[Catziggy]

I think that may be the dumbest thing I have ever read in my life.

EDIT: That was quoted from the timeless fourms

Well certainly not the way I would do it lol.

[kr1kit]

I couldn't agree more, i hate commanders who don't move the titan forward into battle. I usually end up being commander when i play titan because i love putting the titan right into the thick of the battle and being able to attack/defend at least 3 different silo's with the titan guns, at the same time keeping the skies clear of planes.

One thing that does bug the **** outta me though, is when my team is losing, and we have 5-6 guys sitting in the titan guns. All it takes is 1 guy(the commander usually) sitting in the titan to effectively defend the silo's with the titan guns. Having 6 guys sitting in the titan guns only hinders your team's offense, because theres 6 less guys out there capping silo's or infiltrating their titan!

[Zarious]

who was the team that played in a titan ladder that worked out if you put the titan in a certain place some silos missiles allways miss, and never attacked said silos so they werent as spread out. they allways won, then retired/got booted?

That would be us :) and we retired, we weren't kicked. Having silos miss was never against the TWL rules, and alot of teams used it, whether intentional or not. It's actually very difficult to find a spot on Sidi or Suez, anywhere near the center, so that all silos will hit.

Now that we're retired, I'm writing up a huge article on titan match/pub strategy. I'm going to go into intimate detail about how we structured our squads, picked which silos to hold, how we did titan D, ect. It's gonna be a long read, but a worthy read for ppl who like to play titan.

[dontsh000t]

very true.
in pub servers all that happens is:
1. some people try to get apcs/transports to the titan and fail
2. opponent gets bored and takes all the silos under cover of titan AA guns
3. team gets bored of defending an empty titan, everyone goes to the ground
4. 1 enterprising SL puts down a beacon after titan is desreted
5. no silos + people podding down = ftl.

unless BOTH titans were parked on opposite ends of the map. now that would be an interesting game... conquest with two big floating thingies in the sky =D

[TheDesert_Fox]

The best way to counter a defensive titan is to move your own titan over to it and pod on while your shields are most likely still intact.

That way when the enemy transports fly out to regain a silo you kill it with your titan AA before it reaches the silos.

Plus, your people pod on and own.

[Diamond621]

Please, PLEASE let me dispel the myth of the "defensive" Titan placement.

I don't necessarily fully agree with your analysis in all places, but our conclusions are ultimately the same in that the defensive placement is very frequently a poor strategy.

Ultimately, the tactical advantage of the Titan ground guns is simply too extreme from my perspective, and the Commander who willingly relieves his team of this incredibly powerful option deserves to lose the round. This fact trumps any potential advantage to be gained from a defensive placement and also dwarfs all the other reasons NOT to use defensive placement. It's simply an argument ender.

Refusal to use a weapon at your disposal is another weapon in the hands of your enemy.

Thanks for the post - it's about time more Commanders became more thoughtful about Titan placement.