Do air vehicle movements need to be improved in BF3?

[CptainCrunch]

Do you guys think that air vehicles need to be adjusted with how they move? Do they really feel paper light or like bricks that many claim? Not just jets, but helicopters as well.

If you havent tried them yet on Caspian Border, try it first then vote. Trying to guess this by videos or by the QQ posts would be impossible. Also, try not to compare it to BF2 or BC2 style, but as its own game style. I know that will be difficult as its what we all know, but really think if it really needs to be adjusted.

Crunch

[Mtrooper]

Re: Do air vehicle movements need to be improved in BF3?

I think the Helis are fine (albeit extremely vulnerable) but the jets really feel unresponsive.

[Anarchy1]

Re: Do air vehicle movements need to be improved in BF3?

Definitely.

Jets need some work for movement. Very consoley, and you can tell that they were designed for the controller if you plug a 360 controller in and fly with it.

The helis have good physics in my opinion. Not quite like BF2, but definitely better BC2. The helis are agile and fly very well.

I don't think the movements need to be adjusted though. The problem I have with the air vehicles is just that they are weak. I said on the EA.uk forums that it felt like they flip-flopped everything from BF2, and they went from focusing on vehicle combat and having poor infantry combat to having poor vehicle combat and great infantry combat. BF3 just seems like an infantry game to me, and with the current state of the vehicles, they seem like an afterthought. You can tell this most obviously when you look at Caspian. I love the map, but I'd like someone to tell me that it is primarily a vehicle map with a straight face. Sure, there are tanks, AA vehicles, jeeps, jets, and helis, but the map is still designed for infantry (which is why the flags are close).

Basically, the only thing vehicles are good for at the moment are for fighting other vehicles. It takes an almost direct hit from a tank to die as an infantry soldier. It takes a couple strafing runs from a jet to kill an infantry or a light vehicle. The game was designed so that infantry would have an advantage. I understand where they are coming from, and a lot of people hated how some vehicles were overpowered in BF2, but they made too drastic of a change and now they are useless. The truth is that people in vehicles should dominate the infantry, and that is why there are only two jets per team.

[Quemical]

Re: Do air vehicle movements need to be improved in BF3?

The jets feel very light, stiff & a bit slow. In 2142 the transporters and the gunships felt perfect. Transporters felt heavy, but could still maneuver well. Gunships felt light & fast.

[Vreki]

Re: Do air vehicle movements need to be improved in BF3?

It takes an almost direct hit from a tank to die as an infantry soldier..

The canon may not be very good for anti infantry, but the CROWS system is murder.
And then there are unlocks like LMG, HMG and canister.

[Lordsethonan]

Re: Do air vehicle movements need to be improved in BF3?

Definitely.

Jets need some work for movement. Very consoley, and you can tell that they were designed for the controller if you plug a 360 controller in and fly with it.

The helis have good physics in my opinion. Not quite like BF2, but definitely better BC2. The helis are agile and fly very well.

I don't think the movements need to be adjusted though. The problem I have with the air vehicles is just that they are weak. I said on the EA.uk forums that it felt like they flip-flopped everything from BF2, and they went from focusing on vehicle combat and having poor infantry combat to having poor vehicle combat and great infantry combat. BF3 just seems like an infantry game to me, and with the current state of the vehicles, they seem like an afterthought. You can tell this most obviously when you look at Caspian. I love the map, but I'd like someone to tell me that it is primarily a vehicle map with a straight face. Sure, there are tanks, AA vehicles, jeeps, jets, and helis, but the map is still designed for infantry (which is why the flags are close).

Basically, the only thing vehicles are good for at the moment are for fighting other vehicles. It takes an almost direct hit from a tank to die as an infantry soldier. It takes a couple strafing runs from a jet to kill an infantry or a light vehicle. The game was designed so that infantry would have an advantage. I understand where they are coming from, and a lot of people hated how some vehicles were overpowered in BF2, but they made too drastic of a change and now they are useless. The truth is that people in vehicles should dominate the infantry, and that is why there are only two jets per team.

Vehicle combat is not poor; you just now need the guys on the ground to help you.

When the little funkers spot planes for me, I can do wonders; by default looking around is right mouse plus look so it's quicker. You need them guys on the ground to spot armor for you so you know where it is and plan accordingly, you need them to take out the DAMN LAV as it is the only thing keeping you from controlling the air.

Here:

[MrChris_CJ]

Re: Do air vehicle movements need to be improved in BF3?

the jets are fine tbh, I don't get the complaints about movement when its more like you are feeling the g forces than snapping everywhere at 1000mph like in BF2, personally I like the jets although the unlock system is a bit lol

the tanks I feel, they should be able to take more punishment before being disabled and the coaxial MG is not nearly as accurate as it should be

the helis, well they need more armour and the knockback from the jet cannon just needs to go, its not even funny; you literally only have to fart on a helicopter with your jet gun and it will either explode or flip upside down (think about being hit by the VADs in BC2 but only twice as harsh)

[sithdemon]

Re: Do air vehicle movements need to be improved in BF3?

Yeah Tank and AA are FINE. Me and a buddy managed to squad up one round, and we ended up with a k/d of 18-1 for me and 19-2 for him, me driving the tank him as my gunner. Tanks are still powerful, it's getting disabled that's risky, which is why you either need infantry to sweep in front of you, or you just fight from a distance and keep moving as much as possible. I like that. Plus with the final unlock of extra armour, you'll be able to take more hits, but you'll have to see if that's worth it in giving up something else. I also have been fine with the Coaxial MG.

Same with AA, I haven't gotten tons of kills, but I stay alive the same way. And with unlocks it'll be easier on both ends.

As for Air craft, I've only flow the chopper a bit, no time flying a jet. Does everyone remember when Bad company 2 first came out? And how the chopper controls were worse on PC then on console? If you do, be aware it was some console control scheme that got patched in to make it alot better for us mouse and keyboard crowd. I know for my self being able to switch the mouse axis in retail will help alot. However yesteday I was gunning for a chopper pilot who was flying through the trees like a champ. I should have asked him how he did that.

Hell in the forums people are saying on PC they are using Xbox controllers to pilot jets is the way to go for now, a bit harder to aim, but manuverability is way better. I belive it too, I saw one pilot in a game a while ago, who was on the enemy team just flying circles around our planes, and flying low to the ground. And for battlefield I would buy a xbox controller just for that if they don't put in proper Flight joystick support, but I hope they do.

In summary, for Land vehicles, comming from a armour whore from Tribes 2, Planet side, BF2,2142 and Bad company 2, it's FINE. Maybe we will need disability damage lower, but not by much. I mean there are no tracer darts, or guideable rockets for Engies. As long as you have smoke, and don't run into a flag alone, you actually have it EASIER.

For air craft, first we need access to the mouse controls which should happen in retail, and support for flight joysticks. Then we can assess what really needs to be tweaked.

[*FMJ*Power]

Re: Do air vehicle movements need to be improved in BF3?

I have yet to do any real flying because of the lack of any proper joystick support or mapping ability (I sure as hell hope they fix it, they never fixed it properly in BFBC2 and it would be a crying shame not to have the ability to properly map a joystick in BF3 and honestly don't think we are going to be-able to with the goofy HID device setup they are using to cater to the xbox360 controller, looks like it's mouse and keyboard pilots from now on) but I have been concentrating specifically on the anti air vehicles, I figure it's the next best place to put a pilot...hehehe.

The first thing i noticed is how clumsy and awkward their movements in the air look, almost like they are lagging out when they aren't because of the tail drifting widely on banks and turns. After seeing the jets once they get some unlocks I must say......they are absolutely unstoppable......even in the Anti air with everything unlocked I don't stand a chance at shooting down a jet.......flares with every single lock and even leading targets properly rarely gives a hit indicator, I believe they are limiting the distance of bullet effects, after a certain distance they just don't do anything regardless if your hitting the enemy or not. Sure if a noob flys over you low you can gun him, disable him then missile him but I'm telling you, only 2 days into this map and that's becoming a very rare instance, pilots have already learned. Once they unlock air to ground and the sped up lock on indicator....look out....I'm now seeing BF2 reminiscent rounds, pilots going 40-0 like it's an everyday thing.

There's definitely some glaring balance issues with the aircraft that i don't think will become obvious until people start unlocking everything on them, infact I'd say it's J10 esc..... My biggest gripe it the way they catered to a HID xbox360 controller emulation for the game and decided to screw the PC joystick owners....yet again. pushing a game as the true successor to BF2 then having totally inferior console rooted mapping abilities is beyond me.....

[The_Eliminator]

Re: Do air vehicle movements need to be improved in BF3?

Sethonan that video sums up exactly what im talking about. I only watched the first 2 minutes but i saw you get plenty of vehicle disables but zero kills whatsoever. Im not saying you are at fault or a bad pilot, im saying that the current game design means getting a kill in a jet or using AA is nigh on impossible because people either suicide due to the lack of control, or bail out to avoid being killed.

[Lordsethonan]

Re: Do air vehicle movements need to be improved in BF3?

I've gotten kills and you can check on battlelog; it's not automatic tough, you have to soften them up with the gun a bit, then let them have a missile to the tail, then full burst their sorry asses before they know what happenned.

It's INTENSE.

Before you get the missiles tough, you have to start getting good with the cannon wether you like it or not; it's not top dog for himself anymore, they give you a wingman and you have to have a reliable one that either functions as bait or is better than you and can get the other funkers off your tail quick.

After a while it's more common that you get chased off a kill before you can get it. Vs choppers it's ALWAYS a kill; on the chopper it's 50-50 but you will get at least one kill every time.

[Cantina_Fly]

Re: Do air vehicle movements need to be improved in BF3?

I've had a bit of jet time and I found it very easy to roll the plane, but actually trying to bank/turn felt like I was stuck in the mud.

[The_Eliminator]

Re: Do air vehicle movements need to be improved in BF3?

Also what the hell is with the erratic shaking in the cockpit?

[CptainCrunch]

Re: Do air vehicle movements need to be improved in BF3?

After FINALLY playing with the jets I can say that they just take getting used to. They are not BF2 style in the least, but they are far better than if they were imported into bad company. So my vote is that people need to get used to them.

Oh, and I didnt kill anyone or anything, the invert controls are hosed for me so just flying is amazing and a miracle in and of itself.

Crunch

[CptainCrunch]

Re: Do air vehicle movements need to be improved in BF3?

Also, what are the controls for thrusters and secondary stuff? Is it still shift and right mouse button?

Crunch