Origin ToS

[5t3v0]

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news...ion-of-Privacy

Yeah, if you have been following my recent ranting about the escapist you know I think they are a bunch of sensationalists and douchebags (the latter is the forum posters) who happen to have some pretty funny or insightful videos (they lost the insightful part a couple of weeks ago) and according to this link it sounds like that EA have just brought INGSOC to us all with origin.

Now, I know it is bad how EA can probe around our PCs now with this apparant "resource hog" we call a game distro service, but should I be worried that this doesnt worry me? I know steam basically has the same policy, but that argument often gets handwaved with "yeah, but valve are open about it" (which I find annoying, which I find odd about me because sometimes I sound like the biggest STEAM/Valve fanboy this side of the hemisphere). but I just don't see the fuss in it. As someone who declares themself a "computing libertarian" from time to time (I have my moments of weakness...) I know I should be up and arms about this... but thanks to BF3... I have no passion about it. I mean as in I don't care about origin, I just really wan't battlefield 3...

TL; DR

In short, I'm such a big BF fanboy that Origins system probe doesn't worry me, but I am slightly worried by that fact. Who else feels this way/similar/totally different/like they are a different species

[Vreki]

Re: Origin ToS

There was a huge uproar about this on the official forums. It lasted a couple of days, and then everybody went back to discussing scope glint.

[TrooperJac]

Re: Origin ToS

It pisses me off the EA seem to feel they have the right to enforce this crap on me and then collect my private information.

"well don't install it then", I hear people say. Yeah, but then you cannot play BF3. Who knows which other games will come along in the future that enforce the same or similar crapware. Trouble is most people want to play new games and so are just resigned that this is the way it has to be.

Where will it end? Your OS constantly connected to an internet server to offer you 'specially selected' messages fekkin 24/7 - I can see this becoming a reality with Windows 8. Your OS tracking your internet browing. Pop-ups in games offering the latest DLC or asking you if you want fast food delivered to your address whilst playing.

I may yet have to vote with my money and NOT buy BF3 afterall, despite having looked forward to the game for years.

[Vreki]

Re: Origin ToS

Relax, the TOS in itself is nasty, but I doubt they dare actually do they stuff you fear.
For one thing, there are several nations where I suspect it would be illegal, TOS or no TOS.

I expect EA to come out in a few days and say that it is inteded to allow them to run anti-cheat software like punkbuster etc.

[TrooperJac]

Re: Origin ToS

There PR people might try and pull that, that's the sort of dishonest crap you would expect from PR companies but anyone with any experience at all in gaming will know it's bullshit. There is no reason for Origin to be required for BF3 other than the fact EA want to collect information about you and pipe adverts onto your machine.

[eradicator8]

Re: Origin ToS

Isn´t this just another debate about Big Brother and how noboby wants them to invade ones privacy?
I know this debate has been going on for a long time and once I was very much against the government invading my privacy with survailance cameras. But once you have been attacked on the streets and the police were able to identify your attacker using the video of the incident and arrest the perb then you turn around.
If you have nothing to hide why be against it. The only ones crying about it must be the ones having elligal material on their PC´s.

[TrooperJac]

Re: Origin ToS

So if the government want to implant a chip in your ass so they could monitor you wherever you go you'd be fine with that would you. Afterall, you have nothing to hide. What about if they wanted to put a camera in your house so you could be recorded at all times - a problem, why do you have something to hide?

Privacy is a basic human right. It's only the ever encroaching creep of surveillance that has brought us to the position we are in now. Where people don't even register it.

Besides, for me this has nothing to do with privacy issues. I am interested in BF3, I am not interested in Origin bloatware or EA piping useless crap down my broadband connection at will. The thing is there is a lot of apathy about things like this, most people will just resent it and then get used to it and on it goes until you get to a point where it's so entrenched it cannot be removed.

I remember watching this play back in the 80s that was set in the near future. It was a satire and commercialisation had spread to such a degree that every available surface in the world had an advert on it. It seemed un-imagineable back then.

[Vreki]

Re: Origin ToS

Isn´t this just another debate about Big Brother and how noboby wants them to invade ones privacy?
I know this debate has been going on for a long time and once I was very much against the government invading my privacy with survailance cameras. But once you have been attacked on the streets and the police were able to identify your attacker using the video of the incident and arrest the perb then you turn around.
If you have nothing to hide why be against it. The only ones crying about it must be the ones having elligal material on their PC´s.

In Denmark there has been a lot of scare about the so called "Home Invasion" robberies where random people are assaulted in their home.
Would you be happy to let the police monitor you 24/7 in your own home, to protect you against such an incident?

I do not expect EA to do anything different from a virusscanner, and I have no problem with that.
But they will be in load of troubles the moment they start to collect personal data. I cant imagine someone with as many lawyers as EA can be unaware of that.

[TrooperJac]

Re: Origin ToS

In Denmark there has been a lot of scare about the so called "Home Invasion" robberies where random people are assaulted in their home.
Would you be happy to let the police monitor you 24/7 in your own home, to protect you against such an incident?
.

Absolutely not - I can't believe you are seriously asking that question!

[Vreki]

Re: Origin ToS

Absolutely not - I can't believe you are seriously asking that question!

Sorry, that was for eradicator8 which does not seem to share your concerns.
I added his quote to make it more clear

[CptainCrunch]

Re: Origin ToS

LOL, what do you think your cell phone does? We all march around touting privacy this and privacy that as we go onto our cell phone using twitter and facebook with our google browser harvesting happily away. What do you think Steam is doing? You think its coincidence certain ads pop up with things that match what you have been looking for? Hell, this site reads cookies to match ads. A few months back I was looking for some shoes and every site I went on was an ad for shoes for the next week.

I understand the concerns, but if you really want to be concerned about it, you need to look deeper than the crust. Everything you do online or with a phone is monitored to a certain point.

Good article and discussion.

Crunch

[Mtrooper]

Re: Origin ToS

Interesting that they would do this, but I am not really surprised at all. What Vreki said about a virus scanner or punkbuster application built in could be true, we must look at a wonderful field called marketing. Really, that's all this is about. The more data, the more the marketers at EA know who to target with what kind of ads. Even if you never downloaded Origin, and if somehow you could play BF3 without it, they have ways of figuring out whats going on. Every time you go onto an EA website logged on to your EA account, they can trace that, and they can analyze what kind of people are visiting that page. This allows a more cohesive ad campaign that could be more effective.

Essentially, while Origin may be a tool for marketing, considering how everything we do everywhere (even in supermarkets) we are being watched and our behavior analyzed to make a better marketing campaign. Vetoing BF3/Origin will only eliminate one of the myriad ways that marketers study us, and thus isn't really a good reason to pass up BF3.

[TrooperJac]

Re: Origin ToS

That's exactly my point - privacy has been eradicated step by step until you get to the point where people say what difference does it make, every single action you take is monitored already so why bother trying to retain your rights. I don't know how many times I have to say this before it sinks in for you Crunchy but I do not use steam. Don't need it or want it. I'm not here trumpeting the benefits of Steam over Origin. All these other things you mention are irrelevant. You choose wether or not to use Facebook (I don't). You choose when to make a cellphone call and you know that it isn't secure. My whole point is EA are enforcing the right to advertise on my PC. My PC in my own fucking home - well I say No, Hell No.

Remember that scene in Minority Report where the character is walking through the mall and everywhere he goes banners and holograms pop up offering him products and services. Hey, we notice you haven't washed your hair today - have you tried new Pantene V12 with lemon extracts. Specially formulated for dry/split edges like yours Tom. Never be embarassed about having dull lifeless hair again when in public. Buy now to receive 25% extra free. Have a Nice Day! Doesn't anyone else think that will be just hellish!

If you just wanna bend over and lube up for EA that's you!

[BlueAngel7]

Re: Origin ToS

Been updated according to this thread:

Origin's EULA has been updated...

2.Consent to Collection and Use of Data.

EA knows that you care how information about you is collected, used and
shared, and we appreciate your trust that we will do so carefully and sensibly.
Information about our customers is an important part of our business, and EA
would never sell your personally identifiable information to anyone, nor would it
ever use spyware or install spyware on users’ machines. We and agents acting
37683v1
on our behalf do not share information that personally identifies you without your
consent, except in rare instances where disclosure is required by law or to
enforce EA’s legal rights.

In addition to information that you give EA directly, EA collects nonpersonally
identifiable (or anonymous) information for purposes of improving our
products and services, providing services to you, facilitating the provision of
software updates, dynamically served content and product support as well as
communicating with you. The non-personally identifiable information that EA
collects includes technical and related information that identifies your computer
(including the Internet Protocol Address) and operating system, as well as
information about your Application usage (including but not limited to successful
installation and/or removal), software, software usage and peripheral hardware.
As noted above, this information is gathered periodically for purposes such as
improving our products and services, troubleshooting bugs, and otherwise
enhancing your user experience.
This and all other data provided to EA and/or collected by EA in
connection with your installation and use of this Application is collected, used,
stored and transmitted in accordance with EA’s Privacy Policy located at
www.ea.com. To the extent that anything in this section conflicts or is
inconsistent with the terms of EA’s Privacy Policy, the terms of the Privacy Policy
shall control.

[jake_]

Re: Origin ToS

LOL, what do you think your cell phone does? We all march around touting privacy this and privacy that as we go onto our cell phone using twitter and facebook with our google browser harvesting happily away. What do you think Steam is doing? You think its coincidence certain ads pop up with things that match what you have been looking for? Hell, this site reads cookies to match ads. A few months back I was looking for some shoes and every site I went on was an ad for shoes for the next week.

I understand the concerns, but if you really want to be concerned about it, you need to look deeper than the crust. Everything you do online or with a phone is monitored to a certain point.

Good article and discussion.

Crunch

Excellent point (and well put). If we're really upset about this invasion of privacy sort of thing, why are we drawing the line at BF3?

I cannot wrap my mind around how this is so much worse or different than Facebook or a cellphone either. It's still your choice to install the game or to even buy it.