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Should there be Fire Teams within the BF3 Squad?

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  • Should there be Fire Teams within the BF3 Squad?

    Quote from Robert-Peters77
    I like the fireteam leader idea. But how could it be implemented without encroaching on the abilities of the squad leader, or making each other unnecessary?
    Initially, I was very disappointed with the reduction from BF2/BF2142 6-man squad to the BFBC2 4-man squad. I, actually, like the concept of 4-man groups better, depending on how it would be implemented.

    Of course, the number of players in a squad will depend on the capacity of players on the server/map. For the PC, will it be 32, 64, or greater?

    In real-life, the squad composition numbers 8 to 13 soldiers. With 9 soldiers, a squad leader and two fire teams of four (fire team leader and three soldiers). The squad numbers in real-life generally do not exceed a 13-man squad which is two 6-man fire teams.

    I would like to see BF3 with two 4-man groups (fire teams) led by a squad leader.



    The commander should be able to talk to squad leaders and they should be able to talk to him. Just as important the squad leaders should be able to "cross talk" to each other on the same channel. Then you would have squad leaders working/supporting each other and coordinating their movements and actions. While the commander could monitor and guide activities.

    Then the squad leader would be talking to two fire team leaders and the commander instead of five squad members and a commander.

    On a Movement-to-Contact operation against an unknown enemy size and disposition, one fire team generally lays down a base of fire and the other fire team maneuvers. This, of course, depends of the size of the enemy force.

    What are the functions of a squad leader in Battlefield gaming? Answer: Make decisions for the squad, maneuver the squad, receive plan/orders from the commander, and coordinate support.

    The squad leader should not be the player out in front of his group. He should be laying back a bit to: assess the enemy disposition, provide guidance to squad members, request support from the commander, and act a mobile spawn point to keep the pressure on the opposition.

    I believe the squad leader himself should be a spawn point and the squad leader should be able to designate a spawn point that he can be easily re-designated. Similar to BF2142 "deployable spawn point" without flying in a "skypod" and similar to the earlier version of the Project Reality mod, but easily moved when the squad leader wants to shift the spawn point forward. If the deployable spawn point is destroyed by the enemy, there is a time penalty before the function again becomes available to the squad leader.

    Have the Squad Leader and Sniper with the ability to call in Fire Support/Indirect Fire and Commander controls/approves. This would reduce indirect fire frequency and increase teamwork. Fire Support could also include aviation Close Air Support (CAS) with a request approved by the commander and a temporary CAS communication channels opens up for the squad leader/sniper to talk directly with the jet/helio supporting the attack.

    I think this Fire Team concept is the type higher level operational complexity that is needed for BF3 without getting too complex like ArmA 2. Here is how I view the different military tactical FPS games:



    Understanding that everyone has their own opinion. The above chart is the author's "Desired BF3 Zone."

    The Fire Team Leaders would fight the close-in fighting and direct their Fire Team Members while the Squad Leader provide guidance to the Fire Team Leaders, coordinated his squads efforts with the other squad leaders, laid back to act as a mobile spawn point, coordinate Close Air Support (CAS), painted the picture of the enemy situation to the commander, and request commander asset support.
    below ........................ added ................................below
    "Yes" to the following squad features for BF3:

    - Integrated Squads
    - Squad Leaders (SL)
    - Name the Squad
    - Toggle VoIP encouraged within the squad
    - Toggle language used in squad (French, Russian, Spanish)
    - Toggle the function of the squad
    o.. Transport
    o.. Armor
    o.. Sniper
    o.. Aircraft
    - SL only spawn
    - SL deployable spawn
    - SL issue orders with Commo Rose & big map interface
    - SL has ability to view the orders of other squads
    - SL ability to request support
    - SL & Sniper request Fire Support (Arty & CAS) with Commander approval
    - Two channel VoIP with squad internal and channel to communicate with commander and other squad leaders
    - Ability to mute other players
    - Ability to kick from squad
    - Ability to lock squad
    - Status management (Health, Ammo, Repair) depicted
    o.. Individual player
    o.. Individual vehicle
    o.. Overall squad

  • #2
    Re: Should there be Fire Teams within the BF3 Squad?

    Short answer: It'd be too complicated.

    Something like this would never work with the targeted audience of BF3. Some people just prefer doing their own thing, don't take orders well, etc. Then some others would want to stick to it 100%. Then some people want some squad play, but don't care for something so strategic. Etc etc...

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Should there be Fire Teams within the BF3 Squad?

      ^^

      Spot on.

      At the end of the day, if you want integrated teamwork, join a clan. Dont go looking for it on a public server.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Should there be Fire Teams within the BF3 Squad?

        Then DICE should put the tools in the game. If folks want to ignore the "higher complexity" features, they can. But if DICE does not include them, then they are gone.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Should there be Fire Teams within the BF3 Squad?

          Not to be a negative nancy, but that does seem too complicated. Battlefield isnt a war sim Like ArmA, its an arcade game at its core, with some realistic-ish features.

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Should there be Fire Teams within the BF3 Squad?

            What are the differences of this proposal with that of BF2?

            - Cuts the squads in half
            - Less squads
            - Less people talking to the commander
            - Squad leaders can talk to each other
            - Add a deployable spawn point similar to BF2142
            - Squad Leader can temporarily talk to a plane or helicopter
            - Less indirect fire (Artillery/Mortars)
            - Only Squad Leaders/Snipers can request Arty which in turn is approved by the commander

            Each team in BF2 has the framework for 9 different squads with each squad having the potential of 6 personnel. If we maxed out each squad, that would be 55 players (+1 slot for the commander) for each team for a total of 110 slots. The server, on the other hand, has a limit of 64 total gamers which enforces a 32 slot limit on each side.

            One possibility could be to have 6 squads of 9 players each.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Should there be Fire Teams within the BF3 Squad?

              I don't see how this would benefit the game at all. You'd only have additional node in the chain of command where orders/request could be ignored.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Should there be Fire Teams within the BF3 Squad?

                Originally posted by L-iNC
                I don't see how this would benefit the game at all. You'd only have additional node in the chain of command where orders/request could be ignored.
                :nod:

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Should there be Fire Teams within the BF3 Squad?

                  "Yes" to the following squad desired features for BF3:

                  - Integrated Squads
                  - Squad Leaders (SL)
                  - Name the Squad
                  - Toggle VoIP encouraged within the squad
                  - Toggle language used in squad (French, Russian, Spanish)
                  - Toggle the function of the squad
                  o.. Transport
                  o.. Armor
                  o.. Sniper
                  o.. Aircraft
                  - SL only spawn
                  - SL deployable spawn
                  - SL issue orders with Commo Rose & big map interface
                  - SL has ability to view the orders of other squads
                  - SL ability to request support
                  - SL & Sniper request Fire Support (Arty & CAS) with Commander approval
                  - Two channel VoIP with squad internal and channel to communicate with commander and other squad leaders
                  - Ability to mute other players
                  - Ability to kick from squad
                  - Ability to lock squad
                  - Status management (Health, Ammo, Repair) depicted
                  o.. Individual player
                  o.. Individual vehicle
                  o.. Overall squad

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Should there be Fire Teams within the BF3 Squad?

                    Seems a bit complicated... And thats coming from someone who just started Playing ARMA 2... While I love ArmA 2 I think the beauty of Battlefield 3 will be its simplistic complication. Its hard to explain that last one for me though...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Should there be Fire Teams within the BF3 Squad?

                      I did like the whole squad setup of BF2. A commander gave an overall objective to the SL and they "forwarded" that to their squad. BC2 was nothing like that simply because it was to fast paced. You would never have time to apply any of these things on the battlefield.
                      When BF3 opens up in map scale I do believe that there should be more emphasis on squads and as in BF2. You would only be able to spawn on the SL and the SL was the only one able to call in arty. Simply to encourage players to squad up and work together.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Should there be Fire Teams within the BF3 Squad?

                        It seems too complicated for the average gamer.
                        I will be happy with the old BF2 or even better the BF2142 squad play, If it ends up the same as BC2 this will hurt BF3 dramatically.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Should there be Fire Teams within the BF3 Squad?

                          BF2142 was even better, you got a bonus for fighting near a target designated by your SL.
                          I don't like SL-only arty unless he first must earn some squad-points, preferably through a system similar to BF2142.
                          Otherwise we will just get a bunch of one-man squads.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Should there be Fire Teams within the BF3 Squad?

                            We already got that with the snipers raining down mortars like there was no tomorrow.
                            Then maybe they should look into the same style as with BF Play4free with an oldfashioned tech tree and points you can allocate as you are being promoted.
                            The problem with that is if you stack up points on the SL tree you are left behind on the "grunt" tree. And since the SL role is automatically assigned the highest rank a grunt with no SL skills will be choosen above the one with all the SL-skills. Am I making sence at all?!?!
                            So should it again be up for a vote as the commander in BF2. Once again we fall back to the complexity of things. No one wants to spend 10 min. setting up a squad where people jump in and out and you then have to vote all over.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Should there be Fire Teams within the BF3 Squad?

                              SW, its not a bad idea but do you play on pub servers at all? people don't like to follow orders.

                              Comment

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