Competitive BC2

[Tampa]

Re: Competitive BC2

All about that KDR amirite? I really want to play against you to see how good you really are. Anyone can boost KDR in this game, it's simple. I can prove it by making a totally new account, camping spawns, sniping without regard for MCOMS or teamwork. Any time someone says "I don't mean to be that guy" usually is "that guy".

[Kylee!]

Re: Competitive BC2

All about that KDR amirite? I really want to play against you to see how good you really are. Anyone can boost KDR in this game, it's simple. I can prove it by making a totally new account, camping spawns, sniping without regard for MCOMS or teamwork. Any time someone says "I don't mean to be that guy" usually is "that guy".

Except I don't do any of that really, you don't have to believe it, but it was part of my point.

Not only that - but score also.

[UniSoL]

Re: Competitive BC2

Has anyone on this forum won a significant amount of money from a PC game tournament? :p

I lost 5 bucks at a CS:S tournament once....

[[Expletive Deleted]]

Re: Competitive BC2

I won the equivalent of ~$96 for playing Donkey Kong Country when I was a kid. It was 2 game rentals per month for a year. If I remember correctly, they were $3 each at the time. Considering that was in 1995, inflation would make that a little bit higher these days I think.

[Odedge]

Re: Competitive BC2

While I don't play in any organized,competitive video games, I do play the game with a competitive spirit as I most of us probably do. Though, I have also competed in various "amateur" sports (cross country/track, mountain biking, basketball, and bowling).

That being said, I welcome options to games to make it more competitive friendly, as long as it doesn't disrupt the play for the rest of us. While BF BC 2 is not BF 2, we still paid the "same money" for each game and expecting certain features that have been in past games is not unreasonable.

As for the whole "skill" debate, most type of video games require some skill to play decently and even more skill to play very well. Keep in mind that skill isn't just your hand-eye coordination. It also involves how fast you can think, how creative you are in your tactics, your knowledge of the game itself, and your game awareness. Does your hardware/software and how it's setup factor into the equation? Yes it does. But so does your equipment in all sports/games.

There are 3 main factors that will determine if competitive gaming will grow. Will there be people to play it? Will there be people to watch it? Will there be people to sponsor it? I guess you could add in... Will there be developers to support it?

It doesn't matter if it takes a lot of skill or what you call it. If people are willing to watch it (because it's entertaining), then more than likely, it's bound to be successful.

Lordsethonan stated that gaming is a past time and not a serious business. That is true for most of us who play. But that's also true of many sports/games out there. How many of us have played basketball/baseball/football/soccer at any point in our lives? How many of us will continue to play it for a living?

As for watching two guys knock the hell out of each other or listening to dueling guitars, those don't interest me, but they may interest you. I would be more interested in watching basketball, rally car racing, bmx freestyle, and yes... two guys trying to outfrag each other (assuming it was a good match).

It doesn't make me said or anyone else who find it entertaining to watch as it's an interest to us. Being a fellow gamer, it could interest you too?

[LunaTiK TunaLiK]

Re: Competitive BC2

I love the old hardware excuse! That's like saying you can't make a competition out of football because there are people that aren't the right size, fast enough, strong enough, or just don't got the balls to get smacked around.

If your computer doesn't have the muscle, speed, or the balls then waaaah.


I completely agree with Odedge.

[Kylee!]

Re: Competitive BC2

while i don't play in any organized,competitive video games, i do play the game with a competitive spirit as i most of us probably do. Though, i have also competed in various "amateur" sports (cross country/track, mountain biking, basketball, and bowling).

That being said, i welcome options to games to make it more competitive friendly, as long as it doesn't disrupt the play for the rest of us. While bf bc 2 is not bf 2, we still paid the "same money" for each game and expecting certain features that have been in past games is not unreasonable.

As for the whole "skill" debate, most type of video games require some skill to play decently and even more skill to play very well. Keep in mind that skill isn't just your hand-eye coordination. It also involves how fast you can think, how creative you are in your tactics, your knowledge of the game itself, and your game awareness. Does your hardware/software and how it's setup factor into the equation? Yes it does. But so does your equipment in all sports/games.

There are 3 main factors that will determine if competitive gaming will grow. Will there be people to play it? Will there be people to watch it? Will there be people to sponsor it? I guess you could add in... Will there be developers to support it?

It doesn't matter if it takes a lot of skill or what you call it. If people are willing to watch it (because it's entertaining), then more than likely, it's bound to be successful.

Lordsethonan stated that gaming is a past time and not a serious business. That is true for most of us who play. But that's also true of many sports/games out there. How many of us have played basketball/baseball/football/soccer at any point in our lives? How many of us will continue to play it for a living?

As for watching two guys knock the hell out of each other or listening to dueling guitars, those don't interest me, but they may interest you. I would be more interested in watching basketball, rally car racing, bmx freestyle, and yes... Two guys trying to outfrag each other (assuming it was a good match).

It doesn't make me said or anyone else who find it entertaining to watch as it's an interest to us. Being a fellow gamer, it could interest you too?

qft.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Competitive BC2

Anything which has people competing with one another can be made into a valid sport. People are competing in CURLING and rock-paper-scissors. And people pay hundreds of dollars to watch 6 guys run 100 metres. Discarding videogames as a valid sport and a valid source of income is shortsignted and ignorant. I dont think theres a place or time in the world which has the most competitive agression thrown in than a game server.

Lordsethonan, you were saying that fighting games and RTS games require more "skill" than FPS games, and this is not true. Obvious reasons, of course. Anyone who claims FPS is nothing but a "point and click" fest completely ignores that there are people who are better than others, and the difference in skill, talent can easily be observed.

Starcraft in Korea is nothing but "clicking and dragging", yet its one of the most fierce competitive grounds in the videogame industry. Professional gamers in Korea make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, have huge fanbase, both male and female, and are recognized as stars everywhere they go.

Professional gaming is basically an industry with thousands of jobs and millions of dollars just waiting to happen. In West, it just needs *that* game, which meets all requirements and is hyped up enough to drag in the casual gamer. COD4 almost had it, but it lacked the hype (funny, right?) and certain critical features. I was personally looking for MW2 to do what COD4 just barely couldnt. And of course we all know how much DICE knows about these issues (or cares). All in all, *that* game...

Kyle, CS is not the only competitively good FPS on the market. By far not the only one.

[jake_]

Re: Competitive BC2

Professional gaming is basically an industry with thousands of jobs and millions of dollars just waiting to happen. In West, it just needs *that* game, which meets all requirements and is hyped up enough to drag in the casual gamer. COD4 almost had it, but it lacked the hype (funny, right?) and certain critical features. I was personally looking for MW2 to do what COD4 just barely couldnt. And of course we all know how much DICE knows about these issues (or cares). All in all, *that* game...

QFT. This is what I was trying to point out, although in a little less positive of a tone. :p

Competitive professionally gaming could easily bloom over night, but there just isn't the right game, or style of game out there yet. I love the games we currently have out, but they just aren't the right caliber for turning it into something professional on a large scale like many sports are.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Competitive BC2

QFT. This is what I was trying to point out, although in a little less positive of a tone. :p

Competitive professionally gaming could easily bloom over night, but there just isn't the right game, or style of game out there yet. I love the games we currently have out, but they just aren't the right caliber for turning it into something professional on a large scale like many sports are.

Requirements are-
1. The game has to be ridiculously fun
1A. The game has to come from a developer, in a franchise which has a significant following both competitively aswell as casually
1B. Game has to be well balanced, in every aspect, to tiniest of details
2. The game has to support a wide range of tweakability to suit server/game settings for competitive needs
3. Spectator view + demo recording (first person demo recording)
4. SourceTV kind of function to broadcast games to a wide audience with minimum hassle

If a game meets each and every one of these requirements, its going to be a success in pubs aswell as in competition. Success in both creates a spectator sport.

Sadly this is not where the game development is moving these days.

[Lordsethonan]

Re: Competitive BC2

That whole arguement is seriously flawed... So you're saying someones skill is subjectively based off their hardware? Thats your problem if you can't run the game smoothly... If you play football and you've got a broken leg you're obviously not gonna do well.

I don't mean to be "that guy" and bring up your stats, but my rank is the same as yours, yet I've played almost half the amount of time you have. Not only that but K/D.. etc. etc. Meaning you probably don't have much experience or understanding on the topic. Not calling you out on that, simply observing the fact that... if you have been on a competitive level before, then it would show. It almost always does.

And what does my stat say about the way I play? I don't ask sarcastically; I want a honest opinion of what you think my playstyle is based on my stats alone.

Cos one thing I'm certain is I don't play these games to show off my stats; I don't have a practice account where I try the new stuff, I do it all on my main; so it accurately reflects all the decitions I take during gameplay. Yet I will never pad it in any way, my goal is winning the round even if my team of randoms is bad, stats be damned.

Now on to the other thing: yes, we can even start a league about booger throwing, it would be competitive and it might be successful. the real question is should we start one?

What I meant with my posts, and if I wasn't clear I'm sorry; is that in the current state of affairs; FPS gaming is nowhere near being remotely interesting to a mainstream audience. Us gamers can appreciate the subtle nuances of a well placed headshot, but even on slow motion using battlerecorders it isn't interesting or awesome in the least from a mainstream audience point of view.

Regarding sport equipment: in most sports, gear is standarized and regulated; it just depends on budget. But go ahead and tell me every team in basketball has different height loops, different materials for the ball's rubber, so on and so forth. F1 racing recently started cutting down on the team's freedom to spend wildly on technology; in order to close the gap between Ferrari and all the other teams; what you would call a "nerf" on their cars.
This is where I got the idea of a regulated PC configuration hardware FOR LEAGUES. Same hardware, OS and clock speeds for everybody competing in any given event, not for pubbing.

PC gaming is more king to street soccer, where all the goals are different size, with rules changing depending on the day; than with an organized sport.

For ME, imo, completely open to debate and I welcome criticism; we'd have to not only get one game, but a set of rules. Deathmatch is boring to watch, there is no clear indicator as to who is doing well until the end when you tally points; conquest would be a bit like it, and rush is curiously a game mode that would lend well to a spectator show; since you can clearly tell if attack is advancing or defense is going strong; kind of like each stage is one quarter of a game like basketball or football. Deatmatch and conquest are more like soccer matches with no halftime.

I'll agree the infrastructure is there; but you'd have to change the general population's perception of games being for kids before attempting to get any recognition. This won't happen no matter how many kickass options you include in a game; much less overnight. In one hand, you'd have to let go a lot of customization freedom in games; like removing mod support entirely. There'd have to be a regulating organism that rated a game to be league worthy; and developers would have to change their aim from releasing a game every two years, to every year; or every 5 years with a graphical overhaul and optimization every odd year; without changing the game itself. Games should have to be standarized in a way that would be very restrictive in order to people in the general audience to be able to identify what constitutes "skill" in a given game.
and a lot of other things too; but that would be the very basic stuff to get done before even thinking of making money as a gamester. But you are free to disagree. AndI don't mean specifically Kylee, I mean you the readers.

[Chris_Redfield]

Re: Competitive BC2

Regarding sport equipment: in most sports, gear is standarized and regulated; it just depends on budget. But go ahead and tell me every team in basketball has different height loops, different materials for the ball's rubber, so on and so forth. F1 racing recently started cutting down on the team's freedom to spend wildly on technology; in order to close the gap between Ferrari and all the other teams; what you would call a "nerf" on their cars.
This is where I got the idea of a regulated PC configuration hardware FOR LEAGUES. Same hardware, OS and clock speeds for everybody competing in any given event, not for pubbing.

Heres a rudimentary example. Teams (clans) are playing in a standardized game (map, game, ruleset) with their own gear and budget (tweaks, PC-s, peripherals).

Your idea that people compete with severely outdated gear is a bit silly. You dont need to standardise the PC setup for the competition to be valid and fair.

[imported_0Zero]

Re: Competitive BC2

Anything which has people competing with one another can be made into a valid sport. People are competing in CURLING and rock-paper-scissors. And people pay hundreds of dollars to watch 6 guys run 100 metres. Discarding videogames as a valid sport and a valid source of income is shortsignted and ignorant. I dont think theres a place or time in the world which has the most competitive agression thrown in than a game server.

Lordsethonan, you were saying that fighting games and RTS games require more "skill" than FPS games, and this is not true. Obvious reasons, of course. Anyone who claims FPS is nothing but a "point and click" fest completely ignores that there are people who are better than others, and the difference in skill, talent can easily be observed.

Starcraft in Korea is nothing but "clicking and dragging", yet its one of the most fierce competitive grounds in the videogame industry. Professional gamers in Korea make hundreds of thousands of dollars a year, have huge fanbase, both male and female, and are recognized as stars everywhere they go.

Professional gaming is basically an industry with thousands of jobs and millions of dollars just waiting to happen. In West, it just needs *that* game, which meets all requirements and is hyped up enough to drag in the casual gamer. COD4 almost had it, but it lacked the hype (funny, right?) and certain critical features. I was personally looking for MW2 to do what COD4 just barely couldnt. And of course we all know how much DICE knows about these issues (or cares). All in all, *that* game...

Kyle, CS is not the only competitively good FPS on the market. By far not the only one.

What are you talking about? RTS require way more skill than your average FPS. Anyone with enough practice can have a good shot in a game. RTS is different because you have to be really smart at what you do. You have to have strategies far more complex than your typical FPS. It takes more thinking to play an RTS than FPS. RTS is way more than just pointing and clicking...gosh how dumb and naive are you....

Playing in over 20 seasons for CS i can tell you that it is probably the only good competitively good FPS on the market. It has lasted so long...the only other game that has lasted really long is QUAKE. You judge a good competitive game by how long it lasts and that makes CS one of the only good competitive games on the market. I mean no other game can compare...BF2 did not last that long neither did CoD4 and neither will BC2. I mean there may be some competitive games that are alright...but if they do not last..you can't say they were good competitive games.

Anyway back on topic, yeah if those issues are resolved in this game then the game might last for competition a couple seasons. If not then it will die quickly. Just need dice to support the game fully and not just half *** their support like they have almost every other game they have created.

[McSteviee]

Re: Competitive BC2

Just need dice to support the game fully and not just half *** their support like they have almost every other game they have created.

Why would they? What's in it for them?

Their aim is selling copies of the game. If 40% of sales of BC2 are on PC, and lets (generously) say 10% of those are into competition, which encourages half of them to buy something else from EA/DICE, then for whatever outlay EA/DICE have increased sales by 2%.

Wayhey.

To create competitive gaming as a spectator sport will require a rethink from the ground up, not just tacking stuff on to an existing game. That will require a very brave and clever company to pull it off.

[LunaTiK TunaLiK]

Re: Competitive BC2

I think with each passing generation we will get closer to it being similar to South Korea. Will be a long time if ever for it to become just like South Korea though. It's popularity will obviously be concentrated to the larger urban areas.

There are companies that want to make sure they are the first to score big and they are mostly the big television companies like Comcast.

---------- Post added at 08:19 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:11 PM ----------

And what does my stat say about the way I play? I don't ask sarcastically; I want a honest opinion of what you think my playstyle is based on my stats alone.

Cos one thing I'm certain is I don't play these games to show off my stats; I don't have a practice account where I try the new stuff, I do it all on my main; so it accurately reflects all the decitions I take during gameplay. Yet I will never pad it in any way, my goal is winning the round even if my team of randoms is bad, stats be damned.

I think it shows that he scores a lot more points per minute than you do. This could mean you possibly do one or more of these things: camp a lot ; die a lot; not coordinated enough; don't understand all the different ways to score; don't q spot and the list goes on. I'm not saying you do any of these things because I would obviously have to watch you play. The main thing is you simply do not score as many points per minute and we all know having a high kdr like he does doesn't automatically give you a high score.