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Debate: Proper Server Administration [Cool heads only]

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  • Debate: Proper Server Administration [Cool heads only]

    Ok, y'all managed to run the good squad member thread into the ground with this topic of discussion, so here's a dedicated thread.

    A few ground rules need to be set forth since this topic seems to be a touchy issue between players and administrators.
    1. No personal attacks; anecdotes are fine, but character attacks are not. Read the thread title - "[Cool heads only];" that means calm language.
    2. Don't attack other clans; we're going for generality here, not specifics. If a specific instance will bolster your case, then feel free to use it, but don't hijack the thread for your own personal vendetta against admin Y who banned you for being "0mfg 1337 h@x0000000rrrzzzz."
    3. Don't feed the trolls. If someone is intentionally trying to initiate a flame war, do not respond. Use the post report button and draw it to the staff's attention. The offender will be dealt with as appropriate.


    So, the first point of discussion: The "If I pay for the server then I'll admin how I wish" mentality

  • #2
    Re: Debate: Proper Server Administration [Cool heads only]

    My pay - My way

    Fine on un-ranked servers. On ranked servers such ineptitude affects other peoples stats. On ranked servers it should be ROE only.

    The problem is policing such a system. When I played regularly I always thought there should be a 'report' server button so that the really bad ones would lose their 'ranked' status.

    I'm talking about admins kicking because you killed them too many times, kicked because your were leading the scoreboard, you broke some *** rule that the admin had invented etc.

    Comment


    • #3
      Re: Debate: Proper Server Administration [Cool heads only]

      Originally posted by TrooperJac
      My pay - My way

      Fine on un-ranked servers. On ranked servers such ineptitude affects other peoples stats. On ranked servers it should be ROE only.

      The problem is policing such a system. When I played regularly I always thought there should be a 'report' server button so that the really bad ones would lose their 'ranked' status.

      I'm talking about admins kicking because you killed them too many times, kicked because your were leading the scoreboard, you broke some *** rule that the admin had invented etc.
      :nod:

      Personally, I think ranked servers should be controlled by EA - NOT rentable - and should be monthly pay-to-play because of it (remember guys, Webs said no flaming so back off ). With that, each server should have the following rules that cannot be changed:

      •FF must be on 100% at all times. How much fun is it when you can throw a nade at your feet or RDX hop around and incur no penalties from it?
      •Autobalance on, team switching off, servers randomise after every round. Sure, you can circumvent this by waiting at the server browser for a slot to open up on the team with your clannies on it, but after each round you'll have to do it all over again. This prevents teamstacking.
      •Only admins are EA admins, who don't play. Since this would be pay-to-play, someone (neutral, non-player) would be hired to monitor rulebreakers, and you wouldn't get a short-tempered admin who would ban you just for killing him.
      •All tactics are legit, unless they are considered a glitch, exploit, or cheat/hack. This means yes to baseraping, yes to jihading (even though I personally think jihaders should be strung up and caned), yes to spawncamping, etc. Remember, teams randomise every round so unless you have really bad luck, chances of a team being good enough to baserape the other team every round is small.
      •Map choice is optional, although ideally there would be servers for everyone's tastes (some city maps, some Gib only, some Titan, some NS, some mixed vehicle maps, a few all maps, etc.).

      Again, I realise I'll catch flak for suggesting pay-to-play, but for the ranking system to mean anything whatsoever, it would have to be done in a controlled environment, which it can't be if any joe shmoe with a credit card can rent a server and can fix the server variables to whatever they like. If someone wants their own server or doesn't wish to pay-to-play, they can play unranked on any server they want with anyone they want however they want. Personally, if it meant maintaining a high quality of server that will be fair to everyone and not teamstacked, etc. and would have a decent box to be played on (less lag), it would be well worth it to me to pay $10/$15 per month to play ranked on officially-maintained EA servers.

      Comment


      • #4
        Re: Debate: Proper Server Administration [Cool heads only]

        To be perfectly honest, I think gamers should boycott these servers because most of the time when you kill an admin you get banned immediately, and this is reflected on some of the stats websites, shows how many bans you received, so when joining a new clan or whatever they may look at your stats and see, ooo look "17 bans", application declined. There needs to be more EA servers, who are administrated by EA employees and perhaps some mature representatives of their vast community. EA servers should be a different colour on the server list too. Like Wolf said, they should cater for everyone, city maps, titan etc, although Gibraltar has been overplayed no matter how good it is.

        This report server idea is very good, much like what they do in TF2, they are going to be rating the servers, although these wont be made public they should be in 2142, and all of the reports have to be sorted through to weed out the legitimate and the "Rage quit, report server guy". Pay-to-play could work to a certain extent perhaps opening some private servers up to only paying people and they are strictly policed by EA admins, this would get rid of the 6 year old kids running around tking aswell.

        Comment


        • #5
          Re: Debate: Proper Server Administration [Cool heads only]

          Im perfectly fine with seeing rules in servers such as no base rape, no spawn camping, no demo whoring.... things like that.... and when its enforced properly servers tend to run smoothly. But the problem that 2142 faces, is its lack of competent admins. Admins go into situations with the "I pay, my way" mentality, which feeds their desire to make the server how they please, ultimately resulting in unfair kicks/bans. Granted there are good admins out there, they are just out numbered by bad admins. I have seen a very large number of servers wrongfully ban people for "hacking" as well, which is kind of hard to dispute because they will just say "We have our suspicions, case closed". At any rate,if a clan or what have you, is going to admin a server however they please, they should state it in the load page along with the rules. Something like "We reserve the right to be inconsiderate admins"

          Comment


          • #6
            Re: Debate: Proper Server Administration [Cool heads only]

            First of all, while the "pay-to-play" idea may seem like a good idea, in reality it would not work. You think the number of players in the game is small now, consider how small it would be if people had to pay each month.

            Secondly, the "My money, my server, my rules" is one that will be argued hotly on each side. Generally you have those that aren't willing/able to pay upset at those that are willing/able to pay. Those that have never run a server do not understand the time and effort involved in establishing a popular server. While a "report server" button could be a good idea, the potential for abuse is very high. Most of you know me, and know I fall into the "My money, my rules category." I am still of the opinion that if a server is run by terrible admins, it will not last long. Word spreads through the community and players stop playing on that server. At that point the server admins can either make changes to the way they are doing things, or they can just pay for an empty server. We have all seen serves come and go, and others that stick around for a long time. I think that is the best test out there for how well a server is administered.

            I do think that it is in the best interest of the community to state the basic rules on the loading screen for the server, as well as a url for the clan that runs the server. The clan should have on their website their server rules posted providing more details, because the load screen only allows space for a little information. The clan should also run and maintain forums where players can come to appeal bans that they have received. There should be a dedicated area of the forums for complaints, and the admins should NOT delete threads from that section. This allows the community to browse through and see how the clan handles bans and appeals and gives the community a feel for the type of admins that run the server, which will have a bearing on the long term success of the server.

            Comment


            • #7
              Re: Debate: Proper Server Administration [Cool heads only]

              I just enjoy shooting and killing people.

              Comment


              • #8
                Re: Debate: Proper Server Administration [Cool heads only]

                Admining a server is not an easy task. We spend a large amount of time researching people, while in game, through pbbans and pouring over battle recorder footage to weed out people that need an unfair advantage. One thing that we have to rely on is the judgment of out longer term players, and our higher skilled regulars. With the hacks always one step ahead of PB, and the ease at which IP's GUID,s and alias's can be changed it is not an easy task keeping dirty players out. For that reason, if someone is suspicious, and enough people are reporting him, we will temporarily ban them for the heatlth of the server. We will pull the BR footage and then make a decision. Although some clean players get caught up in this, the majority of people caught are justifiably banned. People that are clean can come to our forums and apeal the ban. If they are civil, we will listen and go from there. If not, they can find somewhere else to play. We are also of the opinion that if you choose to allow members into your clan than are banned, then your entire clan can be subject to ban. We would rather error on the side of caution, than have that doubt that comes along with playing with cheats. Guilt by association..... Definitly a bummer, but it was their choice to allow that person in their clan.

                All that being said, the fact of the matter is that we do pay for the server for ours and our regulars enjoyment. We have a long list of long time regulars that are welcomed on a nightly basis, that play within the rules and have never had, and will not have any issues. Joining a server is a privledge, not a right. Treat it like that, and you wont have any problems. Come in like you own the place and fail to follow rules and you'll be shown the door.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Re: Debate: Proper Server Administration [Cool heads only]

                  One of the reasons I still play 2142 is because I don't have to pay a monthly fee to play online. The number of players would drastically go down if players had to pay to get stats. The current system works because it has a capitalistic structure. If a server is being run by a bunch of goons, then not very many people are going to want to play on that server. It will eventually fail when there are not enough players to support it. But if you give people what they want (popular maps, fair competition, good admins), then the server will be successful.

                  There are a lot of complaints that there are not enough servers that play good maps besides Camp G, or that too many servers have bad admins. Well, if you think that you can do it better, then invest the time and money to run a better server. If you are that much better at it, then you will have a successful server. But until you have your own server, either suck it up and keep your mouth shut, or play on a different server. There are some servers that I rarely play on because I don't like the way they are run. If players don't play on servers they don't like, then those servers will eventually fail and we wouldn't have to listen to complaints about how bad some of these servers are.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Debate: Proper Server Administration [Cool heads only]

                    personally i think all those servers that go by "i pay, my way" are:
                    1. selfish
                    2. stupid
                    3. power hungry

                    i have indeed payed for my own servers before (but i'm a student so i soon ran out of money to keep paying for them)

                    and i have been an admin on many servers for a variety of different games some servers very popular (to the point where the oh so famous mygot decided they hated it and tried running the server to the ground with ddos) and some not so popular.

                    but i do have alot of expirence admining severs.

                    and i think as far as admins should go within admining a servers is this:
                    1. remove hackers when there is more than enough proof that they hack
                    2. sit back and just enjoy the game.

                    heavy handed admining gains more enemies than it is worth. if you go banning people left right and center for stupid reasons you are going to find that that perfect server you were dreaming about becomes a mine field of people crashing your server, people hacking in the server, people trying to hack the server, and people that try and kill of the server population when the admins are not around.

                    also being a server admin is not a hard job WHAT SO EVER. it takes 20 minutes maximum to set a server up for public play and you can get it populated within another 20 minutes. actually admining a server all you need to do is go oh that guy looks like he might be hacking "alt+tab" open cc get guid open pbbans fill in criteria hit enter. oh look no linking bans/oh look linking bans click linking bans, check to see if the link is that person. its not rocket science really.


                    (sorry skates but i am going to use you here) NfB server admins say they are doing a good job at admining because they're servers are high ranked in a game that lets face it has about 200 max populated servers. they dish bans out left and right and stay popular and they think its because of their banning. but if you go to a server like GHF the admins there hardly even warn people, let alone ban people but their servers are always fun and mostly populated.

                    what i'm saying here is, certain servers out there think its a competition to be highly ranked and think admining the server is a part of that.. IT IS NOT the thing that makes servers popular is having people constantly idling in them. most people that play this game join servers with other players in them and just play the game. yes there is always someone crying hacks but eventually that person will leave and be replaced by some one else that wants to just play. how you admin a server does not affect how popular your god damn server is all it does is affect how those that play in teams view your server.

                    as for team stacking servers. i think that is just stupid. i have actually seen some peoples teams that were complaining about it in the other thread doing the same thing in their own servers. "you're not aloud to do it because we don't want to die as much, but we own the server so we can do it as much as we like"...... stupid.

                    ok i'll stop typing now.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Re: Debate: Proper Server Administration [Cool heads only]

                      We are on the other end of the spectrum of being a poular server if you go by rankings. NFB is towards the top, we are towards the other end. Although ranked on opposite ends, they are still my favorite servers to play on, and always have been. For us, we dont care, because our server usually is only poulated in the evening because of the demographics of our core membership. 30+, married, real job, real repsonsibilities, etc. We as a clan dont care about the rankings. We populate it when we get home from work, and most of our friends know this and will join on us. Our server draws some of the better players that are playing, but it also draws alot of players that cheat, as shown by the pbban logs of people being kicked. We do have to chase out known hacks that have skirted around anything pbbans can throw at them, and it is time consuming and irritating. What people seem to forget is that we do not pay to admin or baby sit. We pay to play. We get nothing out of admining except a fun playing environment, for our members and our guests. Our rules are fair and the admins are not heavy handed if the rules are followed. The admins rarely make a decision in game without consulting other admins and some regulars, but mistakes will happen. How you deal with the mistake, will determine if you are invied back.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Re: Debate: Proper Server Administration [Cool heads only]

                        as a "member only admin" on my teams server I do take a VERY long fuse, but when I have baseraping, suicide jeep/hatchimoto and spawn camping I do warn twice and then kick, if they carry on after that its an hour ban

                        Normally I do keep an eye out, if they come back, say the day after and repeat, its a kick followed by ban, then report to the senior admins to decide if its worth a life ban, or just a friendly notice to stop or the kicking will continue

                        Obviously there are days where you are just soo livid you have to kill someone, them days if they did not listen to the first warning its a kick, but to be honest, I try to remain calm.

                        Sofar, I have only banned constant baserapers and glitchers, which is within policy of our server

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Re: Debate: Proper Server Administration [Cool heads only]

                          Originally posted by visionseizures
                          actually admining a server all you need to do is go oh that guy looks like he might be hacking "alt+tab" open cc get guid open pbbans fill in criteria hit enter. oh look no linking bans/oh look linking bans click linking bans, check to see if the link is that person. its not rocket science really.
                          That is if you only want to catch the ones that PB catches and we all know that PB catches a very small percentage of the hackers out there. If you want to investigate further, then you need to spend time doing other research such as viewing that player in free cam in game, recording FRAPs of them, reviewing Battle Recorder files etc... Now, this does have a tendency to frustrate players who have been promised that their hacks are undetectable by PB, which they are, but who have been caught by other means. However, the community appreciates when they don't have to play with the guy making headshots beyond visible range or the guy that snaps from one target to the next on full auto. But, really it depends on how involved you want to be in running the server.

                          Originally posted by visionseizures
                          how you admin a server does not affect how popular your god damn server is all it does is affect how those that play in teams view your server.
                          And, Radienfire, I would have to respectfully disagree. I think that the way a server is run directly relates to the population of a server. Yes, having players that idle a server helps. Yes, players tend to join on servers that are already populated. However, if a group is doing a terrible job running a server, the word spreads throughout the community and over time, that server will see less and less players joining until it does not populate at all. It comes down to what a group is trying to provide to the community. Are ouy trying to provide a fun gaming environment to the "majority" of the players out there, or are you trying to provide one for the "elite, pro, comp players" which is something entirely different.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Debate: Proper Server Administration [Cool heads only]

                            The problem generally lies in that the moment you want to change a tiny little setting out of the ordinary, you can't keep the server ranked. Unranked servers are for some reason despised by most people and it can be extremely hard to get a game going.

                            That, and server side mods have close to no support in this game, you usually have to download a mini mod of some kind, and who is willing to do that to play on one server?

                            I believe that server owners can do what they want to their server, as long as it follows the ROE pretty much. But then, I'm fine with no base rape rules or such, so it's really hard to draw a distinct line.

                            I hope DICE scraps the whole ranked/unranked thing in the next BF games... I understand the joy of looking at your stats and seeing your rank with your favourite weapon, but it has more negative aspects than positive in my opinion

                            Look at CoD for example. Before it was ranked (CoD2) many many servers ran fun server side mods like rifles only or whatever float your boat. In CoD4, there are very few modded servers, no to mention close to zero custom maps.

                            I'm taking another example here, source games and crysis wars. Both of these have auto downloading mods and maps, custom maps and small mods are extremely popular.

                            Now in BF all you got is the core game, FF on/off is basically the only thing to choose between. That leaves us with a lot of servers trying to restrict weapons/items or things as baseraping. It's like putting down a plate of mashed potatoes and a steak with a knife and fork in front of a hungry man, but, he can't use the knife. The mashed potatoes are fine to eat with a fork, but when he gets to the steak he grabs the knife to slice it into pieces. The waiters (admins) then come to stop the man and tell him not to use the knife because it qualifies as cheap tactics, where as in the restaurant across the street, he can use the knife all he wants. The manager then comes in, and bans the man from the restaurant.

                            Now wasn't that a clever analogy.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Re: Debate: Proper Server Administration [Cool heads only]

                              My money = my ranked server = my rules only works if the rules follow the BF RoC. That's pretty much all I'm concerned about regarding server rules.

                              Comment

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