Super Smash Bros Brawl review/ Smash Bros retrospective

[Obsidian Spire]

Not a fan of my old reviews.

[Mo0by]

Re: Super Smash Bros Brawl review/ Smash Bros retrospective

As stated earlier, Brawl gets a B+ for its depth and innovation to the series.

I skipped to the end and saw this. Since when did Nintendo innovate anything in their games series?:laugh:

[Obsidian Spire]

Re: Super Smash Bros Brawl review/ Smash Bros retrospective

Brawl innovated a lot of things for Nintendo's stalwart series (video replays, online, stage creation, new modes, and a story). I said that in the first post. You don't call that innovation? I do.

[Mo0by]

Re: Super Smash Bros Brawl review/ Smash Bros retrospective

Innovating means doing something in a new way, SSBB is just melee with more, characters, levels, and a few things that could have been quite easily been done 6 years ago (bar online, but thats standard nowadays). The same could be said for many of Nintendos flagship game series; Mario Kart, Mario Party -Pokemon for Christ's sake are essentially the same thing with more added, and slightly prettier visuals.

I'm not saying that this is a bad thing, its the reason Nintendo ruled the market for 15 years pretty much unchallanged, delivering sequals that used the same basic winning formula from its predicessor. I grew up on Nintendo consoles, and I would never buy anyother because the games deliver something that you dont find in many other games series - reliablity.

Fun? Yes. Innovating? No.

[Obsidian Spire]

Re: Super Smash Bros Brawl review/ Smash Bros retrospective

Well, I doubt the stage designer would have worked well 6 years ago without some serious layoffs. Also, video replays in a game were nonstandard until a couple of years ago. The new modes and an actual story could have been made earlier, but they are still interesting. Boss Battles have been present in early games, they updated the Target test mode, the Home Run Contest, the Smash Service (interesting creations by other users, just wish I could download some of them), Masterpieces (a good idea, poorly executed), and an arcade style coin minigame. In short, Brawl innovated the Smash Bros. formula, not videogaming in general.

Definitely not, other games have had features like this for far longer and they have implemented them better. Brawl is trying to reach the standards set by modern games (some really old standards too) and for this I commend Nintendo. At least they tried to update their series and increase its depth and replayability. They have shown that they are innovating their tried and true tactics, a pretty big risk to take for a company that has thrived on its rabid fanbase by as you said, "releasing the same games over and over albeit with better graphics". They didn't necessarily innovate anything other than their series, their policies, their ideas, and their formulas, but its a start. Besides, a company changing to accomodate growths in the industry is usually a good thing . However, not all their efforts are welcome changes what with all the bugs and improbabilities, so this is a double edged sword that swings back at the wielder (Nintendo) occasionally.

[Mo0by]

Re: Super Smash Bros Brawl review/ Smash Bros retrospective

Well, I doubt the stage designer would have worked well 6 years ago without some serious layoffs. Also, video replays in a game were nonstandard until a couple of years ago. The new modes and an actual story could have been made earlier, but they are still interesting. Boss Battles have been present in early games, they updated the Tartget test mode, the Home Run Contest, the Smash Service (interesting works by other users, just wish I could download some of them), Masterpieces (a good idea, poorly executed), and an arcade style coin minigame. In short, Brawl innovated the Smash Bros. formula, not videogaming in general.

Your missing the point entirely, thats like saying that a car with slightly nicer seats, and fur trim is going to revolutionise the way people commute. It may be a revelation for the textiles industry, but as far as the car goes, its the same as before. The term "innovative" is thrown around too easily when it comes to video games, becasue in reality not many are.

[Obsidian Spire]

Re: Super Smash Bros Brawl review/ Smash Bros retrospective

OK, let's call it a step forward not innovative. There, problem solved. Nintendo has seen their competitor's efforts and innovation and tried to offer similar experiences, which on their Wii seems impossible, but they tried and delivered somewhat. They are imitating others, so it technically isn't innovation at all, just catching up. This is what i meant in my last post and the review. I guess you just didn't understand the second part. In the review, I just decided to sum it up with the poorly chosen word, innovative. I honestly didn't think they would be able to utilize some of these ideas on a Wii game, but sure enough they managed to. It is a big step forward for Smash Bros. and Nintendo, but they could easily have "innovated" beyond what they included to keep pace with the other big videogame companies. Am I clear enough as to what I meant now?:thumbsup:

[Salad Snake]

Re: Super Smash Bros Brawl review/ Smash Bros retrospective

I love Brawl just for it's abundance of characters and variety of stages. But seriously, tripping is horrible, it along with other minor aspects (great discrepancy between the effectiveness of supers for one thing, moves that cause an inescapable death+suicide like Bowser's side B for another) waters down the game.

It seems to me certain characters trip more too. (Snake trips a ****-load whenever I play him, which causes me to use Ike more. And because Ike owns the sh*t outa everything. Except when I get blown off the stage right when I'm doing a slow as hell A-attack and I'm stuck in the animation until it's too late to jump back on. )

Btw, I think every character (excluding the few that have identical move sets, like ganondorf, but I'd still keep him in the next game, just give him more original moves) has it's place, and I'd be upset if they took Pit, ROB, or any other character out. (Pit is actually my third best character. ROB, well, at least it's unique.) I can't name one character that "I don't care about". Except Jigglypuff.

[Obsidian Spire]

Re: Super Smash Bros Brawl review/ Smash Bros retrospective

Certain characters will trip more often, but tripping is still random for all of them. Just watched a video, have you ever noticed that the hitboxes for certain attacks are disjointed? Snakes up tilt is a great example. He does not have to touch the target and it will still get hit. That's messed up.

I totally agree with you about supers being unequal and some are just plain stupid. Having the same final smash three times (Fox/Falco/Wolf) with slight differences kind of proves to me that Brawl was a rushed game even though they delayed it so many times. Many supers are ridiculously ineffective or the extreme opposite- super effective. Also, many of them are hit or miss, no middleground, so the effort taken to get them can be easily wasted with one mistake.

Also, one attack I never really understood was Pikachu's thunder attack. It lasts for about a second and a half, but in real life this attack would be called LIGHTNING and it would only last for a small fraction of a second, but come down incredibly fast. The problem with it lasting so long is you will rarely be able to air dodge it and that puts an airborne player at an immediate disadvantage to the Pikachu. This move confuzzles me, but whatever.

I agree, some attacks take way too long and will cause you to die if you are off the stage (ex. Ike pressing A button by accident when falling off stage will usually die depending on how far down he is). I don't really mind the suicide attacks, but fewer characters should have them because in all honesty, none of them would actually commit suicide just to win. They would pretend to die, come back one hundred years later and start all over with a brand new hero opposing them. The circle of gaming repeats.

Have you ever recognized that when you press down to make your character fall faster, he/she/it will not be able to grab onto ledges anymore? I don't get this because they should still be able to grab on even if they are falling realistically, maybe give them some damage, but let them survive at least.

There is a lot that is arguable about Brawl because there are a lot of bugs and some stupid design choices that some people having never played previous games will accept while others will decry these same flaws (like me). Seriously, the major reviews for this game have been mostly 9.5 or up. What's wrong with the reviewers? There are a ton of flaws with this game and anyone who states this game is perfect or even near the pinnacle of fighting will lose all credibility in my eyes. I guess they just want to sell more copies of the game because Nintendo pays them or they themselves are fans who can not recognize the errors within a game until someone else tells them fom their perspective.

[Salad Snake]

Re: Super Smash Bros Brawl review/ Smash Bros retrospective

Certain characters will trip more often, but tripping is still random for all of them. Just watched a video, have you ever noticed that the hitboxes for certain attacks are disjointed? Snakes up tilt is a great example. He does not have to touch the target and it will still get hit. That's messed up. I totally agree with you about supers being unequal and some are just plain stupid. Having the same final smash three times (Fox/Falco/Wolf) with slight differences kind of proves to me that Brawl was a rushed game even though they delayed it so many times. Many supers are ridiculously ineffective or the extreme opposite- super effective. Also, many of them are hit or miss, no middleground, so the effort taken to get them can be easily wasted with one mistake.

Also, one attack I never really understood was Pikachu's thunder attack. It lasts for about a second and a half, but in real life this attack would be called LIGHTNING and it would only last for a small fraction of a second, but come down incredibly fast. The problem with it lasting so long is you will rarely be able to air dodge it and that puts an airborne player at an immediate disadvantage to the Pikachu. This move confuzzles me, but whatever.

Which attack of Snake's are you talking about? I find only a couple of his regular melee attacks useful (for example, his mid-air axe kick is so friggin' slow it's worthless as an air attack). His best attacks to me are the ones that use his weapons (such as his mortar smash, or his proximity mine), his RPG smash attack is pretty sub-par for a smash though, it feels slower then Ike's smash, with far too little range. I can't count the times someone has been in the explosion from Snake RPG, and yet not gotten hit. I, for one, have never gotten hit by it once.

On the topic of Pikachu's thunder, it's gotta be one of the cheapest attacks in the game, in mid air you can use it like Kirby's stone attack without the risk of landing in a bad spot. On the ground it's ludicrously useful as a defensive tool due to it's speed and the fact that it can't be canceled even if you hit pikachu.

I get the feeling that with a couple patches, the balance issues could be worked out. Alas, it's a console game....

[Obsidian Spire]

Re: Super Smash Bros Brawl review/ Smash Bros retrospective

Which attack of Snake's are you talking about? I find only a couple of his regular melee attacks useful (for example, his mid-air axe kick is so friggin' slow it's worthless as an air attack). His best attacks to me are the ones that use his weapons (such as his mortar smash, or his proximity mine), his RPG smash attack is pretty sub-par for a smash though, it feels slower then Ike's smash, with far too little range. I can't count the times someone has been in the explosion from Snake RPG, and yet not gotten hit. I, for one, have never gotten hit by it once.

On the topic of Pikachu's thunder, it's gotta be one of the cheapest attacks in the game, in mid air you can use it like Kirby's stone attack without the risk of landing in a bad spot. On the ground it's ludicrously useful as a defensive tool due to it's speed and the fact that it can't be canceled even if you hit pikachu.

I get the feeling that with a couple patches, the balance issues could be worked out. Alas, it's a console game....

Snake's up A- the kick that makes Snake look like he is a cheerleader. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDWKpP1U1ok[/media] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HTJtMqkvetI&feature=related[/media]
watch and be amazed.

Just because it is a console game doesn't mean they can't use the Wii's online updates to knock out a few patches for us. That would rock, but alas this too is a fantastical dream.

[Salad Snake]

Re: Super Smash Bros Brawl review/ Smash Bros retrospective

I need to learn how to do that kick....

So, I just press up-A really fast? How do I do that without jumping or using the mortar?

[Obsidian Spire]

Re: Super Smash Bros Brawl review/ Smash Bros retrospective

hold up without moving too fast and then press a. It is really easy to do. For extra help, you can disable jumping with your analog stick and then it is even easier to pull off. Just go to practice mode and try it out for a while.

[Obsidian Spire]

Re: Super Smash Bros Brawl review/ Smash Bros retrospective

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Btw, I think every character (excluding the few that have identical move sets, like ganondorf, but I'd still keep him in the next game, just give him more original moves) has it's place, and I'd be upset if they took Pit, ROB, or any other character out. (Pit is actually my third best character. ROB, well, at least it's unique.) I can't name one character that "I don't care about". Except Jigglypuff.

I too hate Jigglypuff. When they have limited space, why choose probably one of the lamest characters from a series with literally hundreds of other choices? I would have picked Mew/ kept Mewtwo or just picked a pokemon that could actually fight. What I meant by "I don't care about" is that some of the characters included in Brawl are incredibly retro and I have never played their games, so I don't know much about them and I feel that their space could be better utilized.

Instead of keeping Ganondorf the same, just give him his sword and presto, I would stop complaining. I enjoy playing as all the characters in some form or fashion, but certain ones appeal to me less. They deserve a spot in Smash bros. because they fight uniquely, but they got rid of characters from Melee that were unique as well (mewtwo). Also, certain series have too many characters and many play similarly still, so I would prefer a character creation system in addition to the already included characters from Brawl, so that way I can make my own characters with my fighting style in mind and model them after my favorite gaming icons. Do you see what I mean? I like that Nintendo is including new characters, I just don't really want to play as all of them after having tried them out for extensive periods of time.

[Salad Snake]

Re: Super Smash Bros Brawl review/ Smash Bros retrospective

hold up without moving too fast and then press a. It is really easy to do. For extra help, you can disable jumping with your analog stick and then it is even easier to pull off. Just go to practice mode and try it out for a while.

I see, I will try that...


Anyway, I agree they need more characters from certain series and less characters from others (was Falco and Wolf necessary?). I would love to see a playable Golden Sun character in there, or to see Advance Wars represented somehow.

Also, it'd be a long shot, but it'd be awesome to have more third party characters in the next one, especially companies that collaborate with Nintendo often. Imagine Soma Cruz from Castlevainia vs Joanna Dark from Perfect Dark. Or to see some FF Tactics characters.