Jets vs Jets

[fugz890]

Ok i know this has been covered (briefly) in guides on the internet and i have done my reading but i still cant get it right... I just want some quick solid answers to some questions regarding Dogfighting.. Please help me out and please refrain from getting into a debate about joysticks vs keyboard+ mouse.

FYI - i own a joystick but have also tried flying with mouse and keyboard, no further advice is needed in that respect...

Questions:

1. What are the best moves to throw off locked missiles.

2. When do you perform these moves before lock? While locked? When you see the missiles coming?

3. Is it stupid to fly up^ when you hear the missile alert? or is that the first move you need to do before busting out other moves?

4. When chasing a jet when is a good time to switch to missile mode, how close/far should they be?

5. How long after you have locked the target before you should shoot your missiles and how many?

6. Is it normal that i can very very very rarely dodge missiles with an F-35 vsing a j10? I find that 98% of the time when a j10 is on my tail i am dead.

7. Is it normal that my F-35 missiles almost always miss the j10s? because sometimes as a j10 pilot an f-35 takes me out.

8. Are there any tips you can give me to keep a steady aim (this is in regards to using ur MG on ground targets and choppers)

I find it obviously easier to survive in a j10 but at the same time i find it hard to believe that the F-35 is THAT much worse than the j10 to the point where its almost impossible to stay alive in the air for longer than 1 min when a j10 spots you. Is it me? Or are the F-35's as useless as they seem. They cant dodge missiles, cant shake a j10 off their tail and most certainly cannot take out j-10s in my experience with them... Videos of dogfights in cockpit view would be helpful... just so i can get used to the timing of when to do things i think that may be my biggest problem.

[Kreepy Kitteh =^o.O^=]

good question..i wouldnt mind knowing the answers myself...my thread about this got turned into a keyboard vs joystick thread i can never dodge missiles either..99% of the time im killed...the other 1% they come back and get me lol

[Chris_Redfield]

1. What are the best moves to throw off locked missiles.

That depends. There are jets which you can actually ditch missiles off, then theres A jet in which you can outspeed a missile and then theres jets which you can rarely dodge missiles.

A- there are certain maneuvers which you actually need to learn, which ditch incoming missiles. They dont ditch them per se, they deflect the missiles. User named "Argamenon" or something similar, has posted a very throughal explanation. There are also a couple of videos out there, but I cant find them.

B- F35B, at maneuverable altitude limit ( varies from 750 to 850 depending on the map, using afterburners, can actually fly faster than a missile. Missile has a 10 second lifetime, which means the technique is used to keep the missile from hitting for 10 seconds, at which point the missile self-detonates.

C- Then theres the common sense. Dont get locked on to. Just dont. If you do, use the flares to buy time to DITCH THE OPPOSITION.

2. When do you perform these moves before lock? While locked? When you see the missiles coming?

Depending on what you want to achieve, you do this before lock, while locked on to and when the missiles are incoming, or you fly in a way youll never get locked on to.

3. Is it stupid to fly up^ when you hear the missile alert? or is that the first move you need to do before busting out other moves?

Everyones first move is always upwards, but its not wrong. This is not important. What is important is what happens after you pull up? What do you do then. Since each jet is different, you need to consider different options.

4. When chasing a jet when is a good time to switch to missile mode, how close/far should they be?

Missile lock on distance is 375 metres. Or 350. Missiles are your universal weapon, however, only lock on to and shoot when youre confident that the enemy wont escape.

5. How long after you have locked the target before you should shoot your missiles and how many?

Its 1 second for each jet except F35B, for which the lock on time is 1.5 seconds (or 2?) Usually, the lock on icon changes as the missile has been locked on. Sometimes, first missile fails to track and just flies straight as a dud.

6. Is it normal that i can very very very rarely dodge missiles with an F-35 vsing a j10? I find that 98% of the time when a j10 is on my tail i am dead.

Its normal. F35Bs hitboxes are huge, and its heatsource (which the missile trails) is placed differently inside the jet, so the missiles have no problem with hitting the jet. Note that the missiles track all jets equally, its the last few feet that make the difference, depending on the shape of jets hitbox and heatsource placement.

7. Is it normal that my F-35 missiles almost always miss the j10s? because sometimes as a j10 pilot an f-35 takes me out.

Yes, its normal. See above.

What you need is 1 round long Wake Island videos. Youre lucky. Users MetallicaGuitarrist and Skaggy both have those. Taken from inside F35B, against J10s, one full round in Wake.

[XmetallicaXguitarstX]

Old videos.. lol

[media]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=794410795084616794[/media]

[fugz890]

nice flying in that video but i couldnt help notice there wasnt much competition at all, compared to when i fly there are jets on my *** every 2 seconds, AA's everywhere even choppers... And the j10's very rarely fly that straight when i play maybe its the servers i play on but that to me looked almost like 1 player the way everyone against you was playing, or perhaps you made it look that way... Either way i liked it alot and noticed you only used your missiles twice in the whole round... nice.

[XmetallicaXguitarstX]

nice flying in that video but i couldnt help notice there wasnt much competition at all, compared to when i fly there are jets on my *** every 2 seconds, AA's everywhere even choppers... And the j10's very rarely fly that straight when i play maybe its the servers i play on but that to me looked almost like 1 player the way everyone against you was playing, or perhaps you made it look that way... Either way i liked it alot and noticed you only used your missiles twice in the whole round... nice.

Actually it was a full 64 player server.. In case you didn't notice I fly high and go down to kill stuff then return back.. Basically you are in a **** jet (not ****ty, but as far as missles go..) and you have to fly like that to survive.. You are probably flying the F-35B like you do the J-10 (low alt.) and that is why you are dying.

I am way better with my cannons now, and I was even pretty good back then.. but now I can pinpoint individual infantry.. specifically on wake anyways (I know that map better than anything in BF2.. haha) I suck at dogfighting now, because between me taking a huge break and not flying, and having no competition, you kind of lose it. I can still do all the cannon/bomb type stuff just as good though.. ha.

[imported_kiwi]

yes, fugz890, it's very hard to fly in F35 unless both j10s are down and you can rape airport which is pretty much fun :) As mentioned above you must keep your jet high as much as possible and it's so much fun to lose missiles and J10 when @ 800 + AB. Some J10s are wondering where did you disappear

[XmetallicaXguitarstX]

yes, fugz890, it's very hard to fly in F35 unless both j10s are down and you can rape airport which is pretty much fun :) As mentioned above you must keep your jet high as much as possible and it's so much fun to lose missiles and J10 when @ 800 + AB. Some J10s are wondering where did you disappear

You mean 900.. lol

900 = wake ceiling.. the closer you get to 900 the faster you go..

[imported_kiwi]

Yea, the idea is to fly near ceiling at the point where you can still control your jet :)

[fugz890]

Oh, so when a j10 is on your *** you fly 800+ to lose him? So when your flying to and from bombing zones you fly 700-800+ so u have to use ur minimap cause the terrain becomes invisible then when your ready to dive you dive then straight back up? That will keep you clear of j-10 chasing you and their missiles easily hitting? I always wondered how people survived in f35 so well i normally fly at like 100-300 which is why im getting owned all the time right?

[_S3rH3nD_]

no lol..you gotta dive to bomb a target..i think bombs cant make it from 700 to the ground..they explode in mid air..you still gotta dive..but make it quick..if you want to be an expert aviator dive and dont give a **** to j10s..they will chase you but you will upgrade with new manevours against them..dont fly j10 btw..its nonsense!

ps. metallica= with flyby view they can see you..

[waaah_wah]

This might help..

http://www.totalgamingnetwork.com/main/showthread.php?t=80254&highlight=comparison

[Skaggy]

Here's a video demonstrating some missile deflection in the MiG. I wouldn't rely on it though.

[MEDIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5f-B9GhCgc[/MEDIA]

For the J-10 and F-18 a hard turn should ditch all missiles.
For the bombers (Su-30/34 and F-15), inverted loops work.

The F-35 won't "dodge" missiles, so don't get locked on to. Unless, like others said, you are in a position to stratorun.

My wake video:
[MEDIA]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-fSQsTMotCw[/MEDIA]

[XmetallicaXguitarstX]

ps. metallica= with flyby view they can see you..

Lol you think i'm stupid? I know.. lol but most of these players don't even bother looking behind them let alone fly-by, and I actually just kind of added that into the video, I don't actually do that.

[_S3rH3nD_]

then it was lame to add cause some newbs out there think it works and get pooned...i remember owning few guys that tried flying on top of my jet..i laughed my as5 of at it..i know why they tried it now :laugh: