Flat panels, native rez, and Hz

[sm007h]

By the time I was done reading the "do my graphics suck" thread, it was locked :|

But here's my question to people who run flatpanels but tweak the FPS to higher than 80Hz...

Because we all know about setting in-game resolution to match the LCD panel, but what good does it do you to have a 150FPS rate when your panel only refreshes at 60-85Hz?

My understanding is that even @85Hz, the panel is going to drop any FPS > 85.
So why do people build systems that push out 150+ FPS but lock it behind a flat panel that has medium range refresh rates, at best? Or are you guys not running LCD's ?

[CloudV2]

Re: Flat panels, native rez, and Hz

if u disable vertical sync u can push farther then what the monitor will allow. NOTE: this cannot be done inside bf2. this is done in ur cards settings. for nvidia cards this setting is in "Performance & Quality settings". Hope this helps

[Sloi sauce]

Re: Flat panels, native rez, and Hz

This only happens if you enable VSYNC.

[camper.]

Re: Flat panels, native rez, and Hz

No, you will only be able to get 85 frames per second at most if you have 85hz of information. If each frame is not correctly synced with each vertical refresh, you get tearing, hence vsync. Mostly unnoticeable unless you're on a monitor with high colour persistance, LCDs are notorious for it, on my CRT it's not noticeable up to 200 fps or so.


As for running at 150fps, a lot more than just the graphics are processed at 150fps. Your input is also processed at the frametime in BF2, as far as I see, so having 200fps will give you a 2x improved response time over someone with 100fps. The difference is negligible there, but compare someone with 30fps and 60fps, and you get the picture.

Also, BF2 syncs sound with the framerate. Set your FPS lock to 10 and see Sillly geese.


And yes, there's no point in getting hardware that pumps out 150fps constant when you can't even see it - except for future proofing and something I call "quality assurance", the ability to choose whatever settings you like.


On an LCD, it also depends on response time.

[ConscriptVirus]

Re: Flat panels, native rez, and Hz

ppl get those systems that can pump put 150fps constant so they can play games that have come out recently...yeah.

i still play Natural Selection (mod for half life 1) and i pump out 100fps constanty even with aliens and explosions going all around

[Sloi sauce]

Re: Flat panels, native rez, and Hz

It's not necessarily about seeing more than your screen's refresh rate: we buy "current" hardware to ensure a smooth framerate, despite our monitor limitations. Besides, 60 and more screen wipes per second should be more than enough to ensure smooth gameplay, assuming your hardware is adequate...

[Chevy-SS]

Re: Flat panels, native rez, and Hz

This is interesting stuff. I have a GeForce 7950GT with 512mb of ram, 2GB Patriot ram, Asus A8N SLI Deluxe mobo, AMD 3500+ processor and I'm averaging about 40 to 60 FPS, using 2X Anti-aliasing and mostly Medium settings in BF2.

I'm using 30" Dell at 2560x1600 resolution, so maybe that's hurting me a bit. It sure looks good........

Does that FPS sound about right? The game is smooth, but I'd like to increase quality settings.

[redrider]

Re: Flat panels, native rez, and Hz

All I can tell you, and it may be helpful, is that I run at 1024x768 75Hz. All settings on high and 2x AA. I usually get 80 plus fps too. Oh and Im running a 27 inch widescreen LCD TV, LOL. Really looks good too. The only thing I had to do was streach the frame to fit the screen because it runs better with the streach than any other way. One odd side effect is that the hit boxes are slightly wider also. That doesnt give me any advantage though because it still takes the same distance, on my mouse pad, to move from one side of the screen to the other. The streach was done by the TV, its a setting in the menu. The only other major thing is Im also running 3 gigs of ram other than that its, my computer, about the same as any other intel based one. Oh and the video card is a Nvida 7800 GT OC. . . . . . . . .Red

[kmak60]

Re: Flat panels, native rez, and Hz

This is interesting stuff. I have a GeForce 7950GT with 512mb of ram, 2GB Patriot ram, Asus A8N SLI Deluxe mobo, AMD 3500+ processor and I'm averaging about 40 to 60 FPS, using 2X Anti-aliasing and mostly Medium settings in BF2.

I'm using 30" Dell at 2560x1600 resolution, so maybe that's hurting me a bit. It sure looks good........

Does that FPS sound about right? The game is smooth, but I'd like to increase quality settings.

The resolution is really killing you, that's one of the largest resolutions possible. With those system specs, a 30" monitor is going to slow you down. To run today's games at 2560X1600 smoothly, you really need an 8 series card.

I'd lower the resolution to something more manageable, in an online FPS 40 frames is considered slow, 60 is recommended, 80+ is great. You can play at 40, but you'll be at a disadvantage to those running it at 80+ fps, especially when sniping. I think FPS should always be before graphics if you want to win.

Right now I'm running everything maxed, 1650 X 1028, 4AA, at 80FPS. I have 7900GS, 2GB RAM, core 2 duo 6400. We have similar computers, so I'd recommend toning down the resolution

[camper.]

Re: Flat panels, native rez, and Hz

This is interesting stuff. I have a GeForce 7950GT with 512mb of ram, 2GB Patriot ram, Asus A8N SLI Deluxe mobo, AMD 3500+ processor and I'm averaging about 40 to 60 FPS, using 2X Anti-aliasing and mostly Medium settings in BF2.

I'm using 30" Dell at 2560x1600 resolution, so maybe that's hurting me a bit. It sure looks good........

Does that FPS sound about right? The game is smooth, but I'd like to increase quality settings.

That resolution is ridiculous, try something like 1920x1440 or lower. With anti-aliasing, the performance hit is exponential.

[sm007h]

Re: Flat panels, native rez, and Hz

No, you will only be able to get 85 frames per second at most if you have 85hz of information. If each frame is not correctly synced with each vertical refresh, you get tearing, hence vsync. Mostly unnoticeable unless you're on a monitor with high colour persistance, LCDs are notorious for it, on my CRT it's not noticeable up to 200 fps or so.


As for running at 150fps, a lot more than just the graphics are processed at 150fps. Your input is also processed at the frametime in BF2, as far as I see, so having 200fps will give you a 2x improved response time over someone with 100fps. The difference is negligible there, but compare someone with 30fps and 60fps, and you get the picture.

Also, BF2 syncs sound with the framerate. Set your FPS lock to 10 and see Sillly geese.


And yes, there's no point in getting hardware that pumps out 150fps constant when you can't even see it - except for future proofing and something I call "quality assurance", the ability to choose whatever settings you like.


On an LCD, it also depends on response time.

Cool, thanks for that info. I currently game out in the living room on the HTPC in front of our 50" plasma...so I never aimed at higher than 80-90ish FPS. I figured that was more than the screen's refresh rate so I was safe...had no idea that sound and input were linked to the FPS, as well.

So I won't get any better *graphical* quality, but I may eek out some more performance by making sure my FPS is over 100.


To clarify, this question doesn't really have anything to do with why someone might buy one piece of hardware over another...rather how people change their setting to ensure high framerates on the equipment they have.


Basically, I was curious about responses like the ones given to Chevy-SS...that he lower his settings when they (nearly) match the visual capabilities of his monitor. If he lowered settings enough to give him 85+ FPS, he won't "see" much difference at all, but his input will be processed faster...hmm.

Very interesting.
Also, I'm thinking pushing over 100 will help ensure I stay at/over 85 when the arty falls

So are we recommended to unlock our fps rate in BF2...and if so, what's the command (and is it persistent or do we enter the command each startup?)
BTW, has anyone figured out what the second number is when you do renderer.drawfps 1 ?

Thanks guys, this is clearing some things up for me.

[camper.]

Re: Flat panels, native rez, and Hz

Unlocking FPS is good if your hardware can keep it up, otherwise you'll feel like the game is choking when you do certain things, like going for a bombing run in a jet. The effects are negligible over 100fps in any case.

The second number is the average time between frames in milliseconds.

[Chevy-SS]

Re: Flat panels, native rez, and Hz

Hey gents, thanks for the tips.

I would indeed like to increase FPS a bit, bit I think I'd go for some new hardware to do that. Would you guys recommend using the SLI to add another 7950GT vid card, or should I just buy a new card?

thanks again

[kmak60]

Re: Flat panels, native rez, and Hz

Hey gents, thanks for the tips.

I would indeed like to increase FPS a bit, bit I think I'd go for some new hardware to do that. Would you guys recommend using the SLI to add another 7950GT vid card, or should I just buy a new card?

thanks again

Depends on what you want to use it for. If it's just BF 2, I'd run another card in SLI. If you want to play the newer games that are coming out at max settings, an 8800GTS/GTX is the better choice because the 8800s support DX 10.

Personally im waiting until November to see if the 8 series prices go down, or if the 9800s are out (probably not)

[camper.]

Re: Flat panels, native rez, and Hz

In other games, FPS is EVERYTHING. Especially Doom 3 engine based games and others.