First off. This is a really great game, format and all.
I just started playing/learning this month and here is what I know and found.
(I’m running the dual core, 2 gig, 8700 Invidia 512mb (I think), G7)
I saw a few discussions and some opinions concerning pings and Bandwidth. This is what I know.
Bandwidth and ping are two different factors in transporting data. Bandwidth is the amount of data that can be carried in a certain time frame. Data is broken down into packet for transmission. Ping relates to the time the packet travels to a destination or server.
Let’s say a trucking Company 1 owns 4 super semi’s and a super highway. The super highway has 4 lanes and can accommodate the huge semi’s that can carry 100k lb. This highway runs from L.A to New York and it takes 1 day to get there. This means the company can transport 400K lb of freight from L.A to N.Y.C in one day.
Company 2 has a 6 Lane super highway with 6 100K semi’s, but the path is L.A, Atlanta, N.Y.C. This company can transport 600K of freight. It takes a day and a half to get to N.Y.C.
In two days company 1 transport 800k while company 2 has only transported 600K the other 600 is still in transit at that moment.
Even though company 2 has more bandwidth, company 1 can successfully transport data quicker in one day than company 2.
This is the best example to show that bandwidth is not the only factor to consider when dealing with the transport of data. If the goal is to transport 400K company 1 is better.
In our case if you have a T1 with 200ms pings a 400kb line with 40ms will out perform you all day. The packets are not 1.4 meg in size.
What happening is our action/reaction are represented in frames. This should be a close to real time as possible.
You can change the MSU "packet size" and stuff but you are still dealing with a larger packet size showing up late too. We are not trying to send one large file but a lot of little file that represents our actions and reactions to what we see on the screen.
Because data can be manipulated in so many ways (compression, stacking ECT...) people often use other means to compensate for issues and this can muddy the water even more.
There are optimum thresholds for everything. A 56kb line running 10 Pico seconds still cannot compete with an OC192 optical system (9.6 gigabits). You have to stay within the thresholds.
The game has it's optimum trasnsfer rate for the FPS. Achieving that rate will make the game seamless but becasue we are on the internet and all things are not equal we will always see this desparity.
Hopefully this gives a better understanding to the BW / Ping difference and the cause and effect.
Now, this is my story in how I came to this conclusion of the killer higher ping values.
I spent the first few days driving from one side of the map to the other and learning how to maneuver around and fighting a little here and there. I’m fairly good at maneuvering so off to combat training I went.
I started getting into conflicts and it was about as competitive as ants -vs. - a can of Raid.
After realizing that I needed to remap the keyboard (guy aiming at me 70m away and I pull out the knife). I set the keys to the way my finger reflexes work and things got a little better.
I still noticed my death stats were climbing during direct combat. I started studying the events that lead up my death. Although my skills could be a lot better I noticed something else was happening. I could not take him out first. Even with a shotgun at point blank range I died ?!?!?!?. That really ticked me off and I took it out on the keyboard but after gathering my composer again I started looking at my problem analytically.
How could I not kill him? I understand that he bhp (bunny hop-prone) me but this is a shot gun. So the next time I shot the ground and nailed the guy? What? How can that be?
I shot where I thought he was going to be and got him. I tried it with the carbine no dice. So, something seems odd. Is it I just can’t shoot? Well into the tanks now.
Tank battle same thing! M1 verses APC. I pop him head on, pop, pop, pop and boom I’m dead! WTF is going on.
Me –vs. - them
APC vs. M1 I die
M1 vs T98 I die
T98 vs M1 I die
Get the picture
I started dissecting the engagements. It’s like my hits are not registering. Why.
So, now I’m in a battle and I’m re-spawning. Countdown 9, 8, 7, ---3, 2, 1, 0 you are dead. What? I didn’t even see anything. I died and never saw battle.
What is going on?
So now I need to study the game.
I’m shooting, he is shooting. What is really happening? I’m sending packets he is sending packets. Who are we sending packet to? To the server,
The server is reading the information and determining who hit who and who missed who or if we hit each other. This part is a numbers game. First one to zero dies. So bullets are packets so to speak. Huummmm?
This is not real time so the transactions are after the fact. If my packets are getting there later then his then chances are I will die. If he is 50ms from the server and I’m 150ms away, that adds up to a 3 to one ratio of packet deliveries. If the packets are bullets I’m dead.
I remember one instance where I’m flanking a tank and its turret is pointing in the other direction. The next frames I see is the explosion you dead screen. This makes sense in what I’m experiencing and physically seeing. This is the frames per second. What happens when the other guy is seeing the next frame before me? Am I responding after the fact? I think so.
How can I respond to his moves if I haven’t seen it. FPS should be synced but how can it if I’m 100ms slower. So this is where the ping gets you killed.
Now, that I understand the problem I need to find a remedy.
Sizing up the situation, I’m a slow drawing gun fighter and I’m up against the fastest draw in the west. Bottom line I cannot go toe to toe with him. He will out draw me every time.
If it takes three shots to kill I can do it in 450ms he can do it in 150ms. The only way I can top that Head Shot or element of Surprise other than that re-spawn.
If you can be competitive under these circumstances you have done well. No you know that you have to choose your battles like everything else.
Remember basic pings are results of isp network elements. Ping to your gateway router and if it is quick 10ms then you know the delay is in the network and not your local system. If it is slow then you know that you need to look in house (nic card , pc, hardware)
Hopefully this sheds a little light on things for you as it did me.
See ya in my scope! (yeah right I pulled a knife on a guy with a gun 70m away)
Inobu
P.S
Here is a funny sniper one.
I’m sniping and get caught on the outside of town. APC coming right at me lines me up dead center, I try to nail the driver and miss. Thinking oh well re-spawn and go prone. The guy drives right over me. I get up and run off.
I just started playing/learning this month and here is what I know and found.
(I’m running the dual core, 2 gig, 8700 Invidia 512mb (I think), G7)
I saw a few discussions and some opinions concerning pings and Bandwidth. This is what I know.
Bandwidth and ping are two different factors in transporting data. Bandwidth is the amount of data that can be carried in a certain time frame. Data is broken down into packet for transmission. Ping relates to the time the packet travels to a destination or server.
Let’s say a trucking Company 1 owns 4 super semi’s and a super highway. The super highway has 4 lanes and can accommodate the huge semi’s that can carry 100k lb. This highway runs from L.A to New York and it takes 1 day to get there. This means the company can transport 400K lb of freight from L.A to N.Y.C in one day.
Company 2 has a 6 Lane super highway with 6 100K semi’s, but the path is L.A, Atlanta, N.Y.C. This company can transport 600K of freight. It takes a day and a half to get to N.Y.C.
In two days company 1 transport 800k while company 2 has only transported 600K the other 600 is still in transit at that moment.
Even though company 2 has more bandwidth, company 1 can successfully transport data quicker in one day than company 2.
This is the best example to show that bandwidth is not the only factor to consider when dealing with the transport of data. If the goal is to transport 400K company 1 is better.
In our case if you have a T1 with 200ms pings a 400kb line with 40ms will out perform you all day. The packets are not 1.4 meg in size.
What happening is our action/reaction are represented in frames. This should be a close to real time as possible.
You can change the MSU "packet size" and stuff but you are still dealing with a larger packet size showing up late too. We are not trying to send one large file but a lot of little file that represents our actions and reactions to what we see on the screen.
Because data can be manipulated in so many ways (compression, stacking ECT...) people often use other means to compensate for issues and this can muddy the water even more.
There are optimum thresholds for everything. A 56kb line running 10 Pico seconds still cannot compete with an OC192 optical system (9.6 gigabits). You have to stay within the thresholds.
The game has it's optimum trasnsfer rate for the FPS. Achieving that rate will make the game seamless but becasue we are on the internet and all things are not equal we will always see this desparity.
Hopefully this gives a better understanding to the BW / Ping difference and the cause and effect.
Now, this is my story in how I came to this conclusion of the killer higher ping values.
I spent the first few days driving from one side of the map to the other and learning how to maneuver around and fighting a little here and there. I’m fairly good at maneuvering so off to combat training I went.
I started getting into conflicts and it was about as competitive as ants -vs. - a can of Raid.
After realizing that I needed to remap the keyboard (guy aiming at me 70m away and I pull out the knife). I set the keys to the way my finger reflexes work and things got a little better.
I still noticed my death stats were climbing during direct combat. I started studying the events that lead up my death. Although my skills could be a lot better I noticed something else was happening. I could not take him out first. Even with a shotgun at point blank range I died ?!?!?!?. That really ticked me off and I took it out on the keyboard but after gathering my composer again I started looking at my problem analytically.
How could I not kill him? I understand that he bhp (bunny hop-prone) me but this is a shot gun. So the next time I shot the ground and nailed the guy? What? How can that be?
I shot where I thought he was going to be and got him. I tried it with the carbine no dice. So, something seems odd. Is it I just can’t shoot? Well into the tanks now.
Tank battle same thing! M1 verses APC. I pop him head on, pop, pop, pop and boom I’m dead! WTF is going on.
Me –vs. - them
APC vs. M1 I die
M1 vs T98 I die
T98 vs M1 I die
Get the picture
I started dissecting the engagements. It’s like my hits are not registering. Why.
So, now I’m in a battle and I’m re-spawning. Countdown 9, 8, 7, ---3, 2, 1, 0 you are dead. What? I didn’t even see anything. I died and never saw battle.
What is going on?
So now I need to study the game.
I’m shooting, he is shooting. What is really happening? I’m sending packets he is sending packets. Who are we sending packet to? To the server,
The server is reading the information and determining who hit who and who missed who or if we hit each other. This part is a numbers game. First one to zero dies. So bullets are packets so to speak. Huummmm?
This is not real time so the transactions are after the fact. If my packets are getting there later then his then chances are I will die. If he is 50ms from the server and I’m 150ms away, that adds up to a 3 to one ratio of packet deliveries. If the packets are bullets I’m dead.
I remember one instance where I’m flanking a tank and its turret is pointing in the other direction. The next frames I see is the explosion you dead screen. This makes sense in what I’m experiencing and physically seeing. This is the frames per second. What happens when the other guy is seeing the next frame before me? Am I responding after the fact? I think so.
How can I respond to his moves if I haven’t seen it. FPS should be synced but how can it if I’m 100ms slower. So this is where the ping gets you killed.
Now, that I understand the problem I need to find a remedy.
Sizing up the situation, I’m a slow drawing gun fighter and I’m up against the fastest draw in the west. Bottom line I cannot go toe to toe with him. He will out draw me every time.
If it takes three shots to kill I can do it in 450ms he can do it in 150ms. The only way I can top that Head Shot or element of Surprise other than that re-spawn.
If you can be competitive under these circumstances you have done well. No you know that you have to choose your battles like everything else.
Remember basic pings are results of isp network elements. Ping to your gateway router and if it is quick 10ms then you know the delay is in the network and not your local system. If it is slow then you know that you need to look in house (nic card , pc, hardware)
Hopefully this sheds a little light on things for you as it did me.
See ya in my scope! (yeah right I pulled a knife on a guy with a gun 70m away)
Inobu
P.S
Here is a funny sniper one.
I’m sniping and get caught on the outside of town. APC coming right at me lines me up dead center, I try to nail the driver and miss. Thinking oh well re-spawn and go prone. The guy drives right over me. I get up and run off.
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