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The J-10 Imbalance

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  • #16
    Re: The J-10 Imbalance

    Amen rocker, and thank you. Bronx you are exactly right, lead your shots with your missles, as ridiculous as it sounds yes, it helps, I didnt realize their were so many glass is half empty people in this community, but not only that, the fact that people want to turn away from knowledge to help overcome an obstacle is a real shame. Bronx if you want to accept the fact that you will get owned by a J-10 go ahead, but your conclusion albeit easy to swallow is misguided and foolish.

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    • #17
      Re: The J-10 Imbalance

      Im a die hard F35B pilot, but give me a J10 and you will die, period. No matter what you do. Its not that Im 1337 hot, Im not, Im average, but I will swat you down even with your fancy tactics. I dont know of any F35B pilot I havent downed while I was in the J10.

      People saying F35B can be used against J10 in a 1 vs 1 straight dogfight paint illusions. You can only hit and run, and thats it. And you can only hit and run a target that IS NOT out there to dogfight you.

      Period.

      Im all good and go for good F35B use and whatever, but facts speak louder than opinion. J10 will own F35B.

      Krusher, to give you a better overview, all ATA missiles are the same, theres no difference. The different missile hit detection are determined by lag, bad netcode, unfair heatsource positioning and anomalies in hitbox structure.

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      • #18
        Re: The J-10 Imbalance

        what was so different before the big A2A buff.
        I thought it was actually more fun when A2A sucked and you had to cannon it till that sweet moment to use A2A.
        All of sudden they made A2A easier and then all of a sudden the J-10 was amazing.
        What all changed to make it so much more lethal, or was it just as lethal and I never noticed?

        Comment


        • #19
          Re: The J-10 Imbalance

          There was a major need for skill to really be successful in ATA combat, you only had specific missile hit opportunities, and most of the fight was held with cannons and timing the missiles, also thats the period where dogfighter came up with new and new methods to be successful. But, there was a drawback. Most average pilots didnt bother with dogfighting so the most common case was that pilots ignored each other and simply raped the base. Most of the "average" dogfighters you see today are yesterdays nobodies.

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          • #20
            Re: The J-10 Imbalance

            Think the J10 thing is well documented but Wake...

            If you have a good US team that map is unbalanced in favour of the US, mind your average BF2 player is thick as two short planks so you rarely find a good team. Still when it happen carnage follows.



            Dalian Plant is where I find the biggest prob.

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            • #21
              Re: The J-10 Imbalance

              Originally posted by Chris_Redfield
              There was a major need for skill to really be successful in ATA combat, you only had specific missile hit opportunities, and most of the fight was held with cannons and timing the missiles, also thats the period where dogfighter came up with new and new methods to be successful. But, there was a drawback. Most average pilots didnt bother with dogfighting so the most common case was that pilots ignored each other and simply raped the base. Most of the "average" dogfighters you see today are yesterdays nobodies.
              Yep, I still always think that it would be fun if they took it back to the fun days of Desert Combat where the missiles didnt lock on and it took a great deal more skill to bring down another pilot.

              Comment


              • #22
                Re: The J-10 Imbalance

                Originally posted by Chris_Redfield
                Im a die hard F35B pilot, but give me a J10 and you will die, period. No matter what you do. Its not that Im 1337 hot, Im not, Im average, but I will swat you down even with your fancy tactics. I dont know of any F35B pilot I havent downed while I was in the J10.

                People saying F35B can be used against J10 in a 1 vs 1 straight dogfight paint illusions. You can only hit and run, and thats it. And you can only hit and run a target that IS NOT out there to dogfight you.

                Period.

                Im all good and go for good F35B use and whatever, but facts speak louder than opinion. J10 will own F35B.

                Krusher, to give you a better overview, all ATA missiles are the same, theres no difference. The different missile hit detection are determined by lag, bad netcode, unfair heatsource positioning and anomalies in hitbox structure.
                I don't think anyone is argueing that on an equal skill level an F35 can take down a J10. As per my post, the J10 is a handicap in favor of that pilot. But, for arguement sake let's say an F35 pilot that is proficient in using the fly-by cam engages a J10 that only uses front an rear cam.

                In that case, it's pretty trivial for the F35 to pick adventageous angles of attack to shoot down the J10 while being able to avoid the other pilot entirely. Regardless of what the J10 pilot does a free cam proficient pilot will be able to observer and manuever accordingly to first avoid the J10 and then engage and destroy.

                Rocker

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                • #23
                  Re: The J-10 Imbalance

                  Originally posted by Rocker45
                  I don't think anyone is argueing that on an equal skill level an F35 can take down a J10. As per my post, the J10 is a handicap in favor of that pilot. But, for arguement sake let's say an F35 pilot that is proficient in using the fly-by cam engages a J10 that only uses front an rear cam.

                  In that case, it's pretty trivial for the F35 to pick adventageous angles of attack to shoot down the J10 while being able to avoid the other pilot entirely. Regardless of what the J10 pilot does a free cam proficient pilot will be able to observer and manuever accordingly to first avoid the J10 and then engage and destroy.

                  Rocker
                  Absolutely NO way. Pick a pilot who knows how to fly a jet, and even without the fly-by, he can track F35B ALL DAY LONG, period. Theres no need to even argue about this. You could do that even in the MiG. All the fly-by gives you, is a hell of a lot of extra capabilities to TRACK, people using fly-by in direct dogfights dont evade nearly as well as people doing so in rear view. The right combination of rear view and fly-by is the key.

                  If you will compare all pilots using fly-by to evade, youll find that they are all almost always similar, thats handicapping yourself.

                  And CQ- Reborn, having dumb fire missiles is stupid. If BF42 code allowed tracking, there would have been heatseekers. Its like saying muskets are better than Javelin missiles.

                  The problem is in finding the BEST tracking and lock on timing, using BF2 engine and COMMON SENSE (Something DICE lacks in) to its fullest.

                  Personally I would have used WarRock missile tracking method as its probably depending on skill nearly 100%.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Re: The J-10 Imbalance

                    Originally posted by jakswan
                    Think the J10 thing is well documented but Wake...

                    If you have a good US team that map is unbalanced in favour of the US, mind your average BF2 player is thick as two short planks so you rarely find a good team. Still when it happen carnage follows.



                    Dalian Plant is where I find the biggest prob.

                    Whenever I am on loading into a Wake server with less than 32 people on, I pray that I am on US, because the US almost always will win in that scenario. The F-35 is my favorite jet, but it really helps when the enemy has no airpower at all

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Re: The J-10 Imbalance

                      Originally posted by Chris_Redfield
                      Absolutely NO way. Pick a pilot who knows how to fly a jet, and even without the fly-by, he can track F35B ALL DAY LONG, period. Theres no need to even argue about this. You could do that even in the MiG. All the fly-by gives you, is a hell of a lot of extra capabilities to TRACK, people using fly-by in direct dogfights dont evade nearly as well as people doing so in rear view. The right combination of rear view and fly-by is the key.

                      If you will compare all pilots using fly-by to evade, youll find that they are all almost always similar, thats handicapping yourself.

                      And CQ- Reborn, having dumb fire missiles is stupid. If BF42 code allowed tracking, there would have been heatseekers. Its like saying muskets are better than Javelin missiles.

                      The problem is in finding the BEST tracking and lock on timing, using BF2 engine and COMMON SENSE (Something DICE lacks in) to its fullest.

                      Personally I would have used WarRock missile tracking method as its probably depending on skill nearly 100%.
                      I disagree with you here Chris. Let's consider as a typical situation: two jets that are both flying at 200 elevation and directly towards each other. When the two jets pass each other they will typically turn and try to get behind the other. With only the front/rear cams the J10 cannot observer the choices of the F35 pilot. With the free cam, the F35 pilot can keep a visual lock on the J10 and adjust his flight path accordingly to evade and trail the J10. At this point the J10 cannot see the F35 but the f35 can see the J10. From this point the F35 will be able to follow the J10 and engage when the J10 makes a poor decision. The only hope that the J10 has to reaquire visual lock on the F35 would be to spin in random directions and hope for luck.

                      In the case of a dog fight where both jets are neck and neck with each other the free cam view gives you sight on the opposing jet in the tightest turns where normally they are not viewable in rear-cam. I personally use this to find when an opposing jet makes a minor mistake (possibly not starting the roll soon enough in a split S).

                      In any jet, informational awareness==win. Pilots that become skilled with all of the views will always dominate those that are not.

                      Rocker

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Re: The J-10 Imbalance

                        Originally posted by Rocker45
                        I disagree with you here Chris. Let's consider as a typical situation: two jets that are both flying at 200 elevation and directly towards each other. When the two jets pass each other they will typically turn and try to get behind the other. With only the front/rear cams the J10 cannot observer the choices of the F35 pilot. With the free cam, the F35 pilot can keep a visual lock on the J10 and adjust his flight path accordingly to evade and trail the J10. At this point the J10 cannot see the F35 but the f35 can see the J10. From this point the F35 will be able to follow the J10 and engage when the J10 makes a poor decision. The only hope that the J10 has to reaquire visual lock on the F35 would be to spin in random directions and hope for luck.

                        In the case of a dog fight where both jets are neck and neck with each other the free cam view gives you sight on the opposing jet in the tightest turns where normally they are not viewable in rear-cam. I personally use this to find when an opposing jet makes a minor mistake (possibly not starting the roll soon enough in a split S).

                        In any jet, informational awareness==win. Pilots that become skilled with all of the views will always dominate those that are not.
                        Rocker
                        All beautiful in paper, except that when J10 pilot spots the F35B, uses rear view to determine the turn method of F35B, and by the time J10 has turned around F35B CONTRAILS are still there, nearly fading. The result is that J10 knows if they have to pull up or down, they know where to turn and if they pick up the contrails, its full chase right there.

                        You think fly-by view is some miracle drug that saves the F35B? Well, it isnt. Its one of the most useful toys around, but it will not save you if the pilot in J10 is a good one.

                        In any jet, informational awareness==win. Pilots that become skilled with all of the views will always dominate those that are not.
                        Ugh, why are we talking in general here?! The case is a good J10 pilot without flyby vs F35B with flyby. You can argue all you want, put me in the J10, without flyby and I will down you if youre in F35B in flyby. It is that simple.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Re: The J-10 Imbalance

                          From a game play issue it should be toned down, or defensive measures against it should be increased.

                          A single excellent J-10 pilot can make Wake unplayable if attacking the carrier is allowed. Personally I hate UCB rules because of the arguments it creates. So I'd rather see the AA on the ACC improved, rather then a bunch of silly rules that no one can seem to follow, or are too vague to enforce.

                          I do believe the J-10 on Wake should be seen as a disadvantage. Not every map should start out completely even, I like a challenge, but a single player, no matter how hard he's practiced shouldn't be able to defeat an entire team, especially if they work together. If they are a bunch of lone wolves and refuse to work as a team then yes, a great pilot should be able to rip them to pieces.

                          I also don't think jets should get a reticule with the nose cam. This would bring them inline with every other vehicle. I don't get a nose game with reticule in a tank, I don't see why some one with the most sophisticated vehicle should have one. That might help a bit.

                          I don't mind jets being the top of the food chain, but I think a concerted effort by a ground force working as a team,should at least provide a deterrent to even an excellent pilot. If both AA on the ACC are being manned it should be more then just an inconvenience for a J-10 pilot. As it stands now a great J-10 pilot just has to slightly change his strategy to take out both AAs. When both are manned it should be a very formidable task to attack the carrier.

                          It's not very far off, I wouldn't say air power in BF2 needs to be nerfed, just curtailed a bit.

                          There's no particular reason why DICE/EA wouldn't tone down the Jets in BF2 , it would improve game play and make BF2 one of the best FPSs ever. They don't do it, because their target demographic is children, and only a child would enjoy a weapon or vehicle that when practiced with enough resulted in near invulnerability.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Re: The J-10 Imbalance

                            Just started to really love the f-35 and since, ive got back into bf2 ive flew it against the j-10 alot, mostly on wake...

                            Ive improved quite a lot listening to what chris and metalica + other f-35 pilots have had to say.. I still feel im going a little wrong if anyone as the time and doesnt mind having a little dogfight with me to see were im going wrong.
                            If your up for it add me on xfire please user name = spils failing that pm me

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Re: The J-10 Imbalance

                              Disfigured, no ATS targeting box means that there will be tons of teamkills. Thats bad.

                              The best method to tone down jets efficiency has been discussed through a long time ago and most pilots agreed.

                              *STA sites do not appear in the HUD
                              *STA sites do not show if occupied or not
                              *Bombs have SMALL splash damage RADIUS, to make them anti-vehicular, instead of ant-personnel (except for bombers)
                              *Reduce machine gun splash damage to minimum, to make them ATA, instead of ATS, or increase skill level needed to make them work in ATS

                              Plus of course, the standard, fixing all jets missile hit issues and so on.

                              make fighters hunt jets, and attack vehicles, and make bombers deliver hell to the ground. Simple cocktail.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Re: The J-10 Imbalance

                                Originally posted by disfigured
                                From a game play issue it should be toned down, or defensive measures against it should be increased.

                                A single excellent J-10 pilot can make Wake unplayable if attacking the carrier is allowed. Personally I hate UCB rules because of the arguments it creates. So I'd rather see the AA on the ACC improved, rather then a bunch of silly rules that no one can seem to follow, or are too vague to enforce.

                                I do believe the J-10 on Wake should be seen as a disadvantage. Not every map should start out completely even, I like a challenge, but a single player, no matter how hard he's practiced shouldn't be able to defeat an entire team, especially if they work together. If they are a bunch of lone wolves and refuse to work as a team then yes, a great pilot should be able to rip them to pieces.

                                I also don't think jets should get a reticule with the nose cam. This would bring them inline with every other vehicle. I don't get a nose game with reticule in a tank, I don't see why some one with the most sophisticated vehicle should have one. That might help a bit.

                                I don't mind jets being the top of the food chain, but I think a concerted effort by a ground force working as a team,should at least provide a deterrent to even an excellent pilot. If both AA on the ACC are being manned it should be more then just an inconvenience for a J-10 pilot. As it stands now a great J-10 pilot just has to slightly change his strategy to take out both AAs. When both are manned it should be a very formidable task to attack the carrier.

                                It's not very far off, I wouldn't say air power in BF2 needs to be nerfed, just curtailed a bit.

                                There's no particular reason why DICE/EA wouldn't tone down the Jets in BF2 , it would improve game play and make BF2 one of the best FPSs ever. They don't do it, because their target demographic is children, and only a child would enjoy a weapon or vehicle that when practiced with enough resulted in near invulnerability.
                                I'm not flaming but sometimes you need to go OTT to get a point across. 90% of the players playing Wake don't seem to have a clue as US. I've played quite a bit of 64 player Wake 24/7 servers and twice I've come across more than five players that seem to know what to do.

                                Unless your a really really good pilot then the F35 is only quick transport for upto six players to get to the Island. If you've got really really good players then in fact your entire team can be on the Island in about thirty seconds.

                                Round starts one plane get to Island he is Squad Leader, bails, I spawn on him then leave squad forming my own then allowing upto another five other players to spawn.

                                If your not a squad leader then DO NOT SPAWN.

                                AT THE START OF THE ROUND IF YOU DO NOT SPAWN YOU CAN SQUAD HOP.

                                /methinks you've been playing too much Karkland IO

                                Originally posted by brianthebold
                                Whenever I am on loading into a Wake server with less than 32 people on, I pray that I am on US, because the US almost always will win in that scenario. The F-35 is my favorite jet, but it really helps when the enemy has no airpower at all
                                I don't see this, if I'm China and not in a plane I will always stay close to airfield, at least until I figure out if the US team has any sense.

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