weapons question

[SERIALBUTCHER]

Re: weapons question

I stand corrected. Barrel length will increase range, not so much accuracy. I would have mentioned ALL the other things you did...had you not already addressed them in your earlier post, so I didn't.

Specifically the iron sights. That alone is worth making my statement true that the "other" guy is full of it.

I have poor eyesight and couldn't hit an elephant at 300meters(well, maybe...never tried), and have only had 100m or less personal experience. No matter what range, or any of the AK's I've had the pleasure of owning, came close to my AR-15 in grouping. Same shooter, same range, different rifles. I even tried some good 7.62x39(SA, Norinco, S&B) a few times, not just Wolf.

I did make a point to mention personal testing falls way short of controlled testing though, YOU are probably a good shot regardless of the firearm you have :)

As for your equal grouping claim...please make the attempt and report back...I've never seen nor heard of an equal result and I often read about the attempts on various boards. So far it's never happened, regardless of the caliber of AK used(not counting 308). People report that it isn't half as bad as some people claim(the AK haters), but certainly not equal to their poodle shooters.

I owned a Norinco MAC-90 (Chinese made AK-47 clone in semi-auto), I don't know how much potential accuracy it had, but it's sights were to crude to ever find out, but I did have fun w/ the 75 round drum lol

To Kayback, if you are consistant w/ iron sights on man sized targets @ 300m you are more than a "mediocre shooter" by US Army standards

I shot 37 of 40 on "record fire" day in basic training in 1983 hitting all 3 of my 300m man targets in the process to earn the Expert Marksman Medal

LG SB

peace

[Kayback]

Re: weapons question

To Kayback, if you are consistant w/ iron sights on man sized targets @ 300m you are more than a "mediocre shooter" by US Army standards

I shot 37 of 40 on "record fire" day in basic training in 1983 hitting all 3 of my 300m man targets in the process to earn the Expert Marksman Medal

Thanks, but I was including pistols and shotguns as well. I was responding to the "you probably pretty good with any gun" part. I'm about half a step above useless with a pistol.

The 3 weapons I've qualified on are the Vektor Z-88, a licensed copy of the Beretta 92, in 9x19mm, the Vektor R4/R5/R6 series of rifles in 5.56mm and the Mossberg 12 guage pump.

I've managed to score "expert" in the R series and the Mossberg, but only a "pass" in the pistol. Pass is a hit ratio of 60%, and the targets are at a max of like 15m . The expert ratings are all 85%+. So add them all together and I'd say I'm mediocre.

But police quals are easy enough that if you can hold a gun steady you can pass them. I think our longest rifle shot was at 50m.

Still, I don't OWN an AK or an M16, so I'll have to ask around for when people who do can bring them to the range.

KBK

[[Expletive Deleted]]

Re: weapons question

With a pistol you just have to make the snowman with the white dot and square. The first time I fired I barely qualified, every time after that I hit expert. Every weapon I've used I've fired expert the second time around. PMI is almost theoretical until I've fired the weapon at a range once. As a smoker and a generally hyper person, I find that burning one chills me out long enough for quals. My breathing control and steady body position are easier. My sight picture and trigger squeeze never change.
Trigger squeeze is why I have bound my shift key on my zboard to "primary fire." A mouse button just clicks and it's done, I can "squeeze" the shift key for a smooth and consistent motion.

[YoDiddy]

Re: weapons question

Are you seriously going to make the claim that an AK(AK-47 or AKM) in 7.62x39mm is more accurate than any AR-15/M16 in 5.56mm???

Hell, why don't we go ahead and put the AK-101 up against it, same caliber...the AR-15/M16 still wins.

Not only does the AR/M16 have 25% more barrel(20" vs 16")(except M4, 14.5"), but it also has a superior design in regards to accuracy. Longer barrel increases fps, and increases stability.

Your claim would probably be agreed with by a few hundred people on the planet!...out of billions.

It is quite common knowledge the the AR/M16 platform outperforms the Kalashnikov design in every regard except for durability.

Don't get me wrong, I love AK's...more than the AR/M16 actually...but it is NOT anywhere close to the range OR accuracy of an AR/M16...or the 5.56/223 cartridge in general.

You can make any claim you want including personal performance tests...but ballistics tests in a controlled environment are a hell of a lot more scientific than any one or group of persons during personal range testing where there are far too many variables to alter the outcome.

Lastly, at this point I wonder if you have ever held anything beyond an AIRSOFT rifle to make such a ridiculous claim as you did. Perhaps the AIRSOFT version IS superior...lol.

Please don't make me yawn this early.

The four fundamentals of marksmanship apply to ALL small arms.
I qualify expert with M9, M249, M4, and M16.
A weapon is a weapon. If it requires that much "Kentucky Windage" or intuition to hit a target with an AK, it's already inferior.

Ok nevermind, I'm yawning

[Kayback]

Re: weapons question

With a pistol you just have to make the snowman with the white dot and square. The first time I fired I barely qualified, every time after that I hit expert..

I USED to be good with pistols (or at least better than I am now)

However over the years my flinch has increased, and my shooting has generally deterioated. I've gotten better with rifles and shotguns, but my pistol work has taken a dive.

However this is only when I'm standing still. When I'm shooting on the move, or sitting in a chair or something, I'm A-zones all the way.

Seriously, when I'm standing on the line shooting Quals I'd do a better job if I just threw the gun at the target. It's probably all psychological.

KBK

[abtomat74]

Re: weapons question

Please don't make me yawn this early.


Ok nevermind, I'm yawning

As you should be. Clearly it is way past your bedtime, and stop playing with your fathers rifles.

[YoDiddy]

Re: weapons question

As you should be. Clearly it is way past your bedtime, and stop playing with your fathers rifles.

I'm sure people said the same about you and your fathers "cleaning rod" but look how well you turned out! You can attempt to insult people on a forum.

You get a cookie.


And some anthrax, go you!

[sycomarine5085]

Re: weapons question

I Love guns they are so much fun to shoot. DIE squirrels muhahaha.
guns ive fired
Barret .50 cal sniper rifle it hurts your sholder really bad when your 13
ak-47 fun to use squirrel hunting wasting a full clip on 1
.44 magnum
10 guage shotgun
.308 sniper rifle
massive ammounts of .22's
12 guage shotgun
.223's
ak 74
thats all i can think of, i know ive shot more and im still in high school though not 13 anymore.
i will probably post later when i can remember the others.

[TMB]

Re: weapons question

I like the Mk19 as well, to bad it's not in the game. lol.

We can not begin to phathom the amount of crying there would be if the MK19 was in BF2.

[namvet70]

Re: weapons question

I was in the US Army for 2 years and Vietnam for one. I have fired at one time or another a .50 Caliber MG ( on a M113 APC), M16, M79 grenade launcher, M203, M14, M1, M2 carbine, .45 Cal pistol ( M1911A1 ), AK47, SKS Rifle, frag grenade, White Phosporus grenade, smoke grenade, M3 grease gun, Thompson M1A1 sub machine gun, M21 sniper rifle ( modified M 14 ), M60 MG, Gatling Gun ( this was taken from a crashed helo and put on one of our APCs ), M72 LAW, 81 MM Mortar, and 4.2" Mortar.

I was in a mechanized infantry unit in Vietnam ( 25th Div. ). We had mad minutes at sun down and sometimes at sun up, and tested a variety of weapons. We also had a lot of ARVNs that operated with us and had just about anything you could imagine weapons-wise.... My personal favorite has to be the Ma Deuce ( .50 cal MG ). I liked the AK47 over the M-16.

Larry